New Light & Medium Duty News

[351cid]

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Nobody disagrees....I just feel that Ford can do it better.

As someone who regularly drives new International trucks (4500 box trucks and ProStar tractors); I can tell you that if the Ford's are reliable and solid built, then a lot of their short comings can be justified. I wish I had a $1 for every "check engine light" I've had come on. Most of these units are Cummings powered, so it's not just that God awful MaxxForce.

 

With the ProStar tractors; they start rattling at 100K miles. Interior bits break off, trim falls off, and my favorite....the door seals give up and you get a shower on your left arm going down the road.

 

I'd love to run a 650 to make a comparison.

[Joe771476]

For class 7, April HDT mag shows Feb sales of Hino at 193 and Ford at 168, But YTD Ford is 297 vs. Hino at 265. Freightliner is gaining in class 6 because they can afford to -- and I believe are -- giving away class 6 trucks in total frustration! This isn't supposed to be happening! The Daimler/Freightliner buyout of Ford class 8 (renamed Sterling) in 1997 was supposed to (secretly in Daimler's belief, but they didn't tell Ford this!) get Ford out of Class 6 and Class 7 by having to turn away potential class 8 buyers, and trickling down to lost sales in class 6 and 7 as well! And it did for a while. Also, there's no sense in Ford getting out of class 7. It's too easy to make a class 7 truck if you already make a class 6, so why get out? And I can't understand how Dodge/Ram can be outselling Ford in class 3, 4 & 5 when Ram has nowhere near the network of dealers! They too must be giving them away! It must be the reason why FCA is supposedly in dire straits! I read that Mercedes and VW are planning pickup trucks! It's time for payback and Ford start going into Class 8 (tandem and tri-axles included), vocationally for now. Forget about the over-the-road sleeper tractor-- for now! Let's see if VW/Navistar and Freightliner/Mercedes like that! One last thing and it belongs in two other threads here, but Ford marketshare never went up when investors made Ford get out of aerospace, farm tractor and class 8. All those acts did was emasculate and emaciate the company. Shareholder value never increased!

[jpd80]

So clearly, Ford is more heavily focused on Class 6 than 7 & 8, the engines and capacity are just not there,

I wonder how many of those F650 class 6s are V10 gassers - 80% or more?

 

And, if Ford is doing well selling trucks well within their capacity, maybe the key for better F750 sales is a bigger gas engine

rather than trying to slug it out against the diesel competition.....seek out more of those niche buyers that aren't being serviced.

Edited May 15, 2017 by jpd80

[Bob Rosadini]

So clearly, Ford is more heavily focused on Class 6 than 7 & 8, the engines and capacity are just not there,

I wonder how many of those F650 class 6s are V10 gassers - 80% or more?

 

And, if Ford is doing well selling trucks well within their capacity, maybe the key for better F750 sales is a bigger gas engine

rather than trying to slug it out against the diesel competition.....seek out more of those niche buyers that aren't being serviced.

Good question on % of 650 sales gas vs. diesel. I've repeatedly asked that question on this thread hoping someone at OAP would weigh in but no luck.

 

Now today a new sighting! Lewis Tree Service. A very big tree service outfit with 4000 pieces of equipment (according to their website). New bucket truck and it was a Power Stroke. Did not get close enough to confirm 650 or 750 but I think most of their Bluediamond bucket trucks are 650's.

 

Interesting that this new one was a diesel as I believe a year or so ago a group of tree service companies had openly expressed the view that they were looking for gasoline options as they were not happy with all the regen issues associated with their line of work as they have a high percentage of PTO hours.

 

Ring a bell with anyone?

[Bob Rosadini]

More Competition

 

Isuzu Begins Production of Class 6 FTR

Heavy Duty Trucking / May 10, 2017

Isuzu Commercial Truck of America, Inc., distributor of low cab forward trucks, has announced that production of its all-new entry in the Class 6 medium-duty truck segment — the 2018 Isuzu FTR — began May 8, 2017.

The truck is being produced at a new 80,000-square-foot Spartan Motors facility in Charlotte, Mich.

“We believe that the all-new FTR is the truck of the future,” said Shaun Skinner, president of Isuzu Commercial Truck of America. “This truck’s combination of low-cab-forward design, Class 6 GVWR, and four-cylinder diesel engine gives it fantastic maneuverability, the ability to carry more cargo than a conventional Class 6 truck, and outstanding fuel efficiency."

The FTR is powered by Isuzu’s 4HK1-TC 5.2L turbocharged four-cylinder diesel engine — a first in the segment, according to the truckmaker. It generates 520 lb.-ft. of torque and 215 hp and carries a B10 durability rating of 375,000 miles — meaning that 90% of engines should reach that mileage before requiring an overhaul. The truck has a gross vehicle weight rating of 25,950 pounds.

"We’re also thrilled to be working with Spartan Motors in Michigan,” Skinner added. “Much of the engineering for this truck was done at the Isuzu Technical Center of America in Plymouth, Michigan, and many of the parts for it are U.S.-sourced. This is a true medium-duty Class 6 truck designed and built for this market, in this market.”

Eight wheelbase lengths, ranging from 152 to 248 inches, accommodate bodies from 14 feet to 30 feet, allowing for a wide variety of body applications.

The new truck assembly plant where the FTR is being produced represents a $6.5 million investment and has already brought new jobs to the Michigan workforce.

Steve Guillaume, President of Spartan Specialty Vehicles, said, “We value our business relationship with Isuzu, and we’re excited to help bring this groundbreaking new product to the market.”

 

[7Mary3]

It looks like the FTR will more expensive than a diesel F-650, but I think Isuzu will be emphasizing total cost-of-ownership and they just might beat Ford on that. Time will tell.

[Bob Rosadini]

Well I swung through the local Altec operation today. Even more Fords awaiting install than last time I swung through-couple of months ago- My guess mostly 550's . Seemed like a combination of gas/diesel-tough to say as you are judging by badging on vehicles at end of row. One interesting thing-probably a row of about 20 super cabs. Surprisingly hardly any Dodges. As for class 7's probably 90% M-2's with balance Internationals-not a 650-750 anywhere.

 

A few orange or yellow chassis-majority white-which says to me Verizon or Comcast

[351cid]

Well I swung through the local Altec operation today. Even more Fords awaiting install than last time I swung through-couple of months ago- My guess mostly 550's . Seemed like a combination of gas/diesel-tough to say as you are judging by badging on vehicles at end of row. One interesting thing-probably a row of about 20 super cabs. Surprisingly hardly any Dodges. As for class 7's probably 90% M-2's with balance Internationals-not a 650-750 anywhere.

 

A few orange or yellow chassis-majority white-which says to me Verizon or Comcast

My son works for ALtec here in VA. He said they have about every truck chassis you can imagine...from F 350 to 378 Peterbuilt. He says he's seen a few F 650's; but by far the most trucks they do are Super Duty's (350-550).

[7Mary3]

I wonder if the executive shake-up will have any effect on commercial trucks.

[twintornados]

I wonder if the executive shake-up will have any effect on commercial trucks.

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Wouldn't that be nice....would love to see Cargo 816 or 1119 (pictured) coming out of Avon Lake to give Isuzu a run...

 

....where does Ford build the F53 / F59 stripped chassis line at?

 

 

Edited May 26, 2017 by twintornados

[rmc523]

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Wouldn't that be nice....would love to see Cargo 816 or 1119 (pictured) coming out of Avon Lake to give Isuzu a run...

 

....where does Ford build the F53 / F59 stripped chassis line at?

 

 

 

They didn't sell very many LCFs a few years ago.

 

----

 

On a different note, are cab over designs for semis not allowed here or just not preferred? Can they bring the Cargo (the big one) here?

[twintornados]

 

They didn't sell very many LCFs a few years ago.

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The LCF was a dog with fleas...Mazda cab with a horrid 4.5L Navistar built V6 diesel engine that was problematic at best and it was built at the Blue Diamond JV plant....that alone was enough to send customers running away from it in droves.

Edited May 26, 2017 by twintornados

[7Mary3]

.

Wouldn't that be nice....would love to see Cargo 816 or 1119 (pictured) coming out of Avon Lake to give Isuzu a run...

 

....where does Ford build the F53 / F59 stripped chassis line at?

 

 

 

I would not be surprised if something like this Cargo eventually replaces the 650/750. Not anytime soon, but someday.

[hwyman3]

 

They didn't sell very many LCFs a few years ago.

 

----

 

On a different note, are cab over designs for semis not allowed here or just not preferred? Can they bring the Cargo (the big one) here?

 

 

Cab over semis were popular years ago because of length restrictions, shorter cab, you could have a longer trailer and more cargo. Those restrictions were relaxed and everybody went conventional.

 

As for the Cargo, didn't Ford sell the rights to the Cargo in North America to Freightliner when they sold the heavy truck unit?

[twintornados]

...As for the Cargo, didn't Ford sell the rights to the Cargo in North America to Freightliner when they sold the heavy truck unit?

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Cargo yes - C-Series, no....

[rmc523]

 

 

Cab over semis were popular years ago because of length restrictions, shorter cab, you could have a longer trailer and more cargo. Those restrictions were relaxed and everybody went conventional.

 

As for the Cargo, didn't Ford sell the rights to the Cargo in North America to Freightliner when they sold the heavy truck unit?

 

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Nevermind then!

[Bob Rosadini]

I wonder if the executive shake-up will have any effect on commercial trucks.

That is my fear-class 6 and 7 would appear to be low hanging fruit for the typical "new broom" who is looking for the quick score to put a notch on his Colt.

Let's hope Bill Ford's time in Heavy Truck early in his career left him with some appreciation for that business and if anything it gets some attention to effectively compete in the market. Mary Barra apparently thinks its worth getting back into!

 

.

Wouldn't that be nice....would love to see Cargo 816 or 1119 (pictured) coming out of Avon Lake to give Isuzu a run...

 

....where does Ford build the F53 / F59 stripped chassis line at?

 

 

For sure-in particular given Chevrolet's re-entry counting on their big dealer base to capitalize on the Chevy badged Isuzus. GM proved Ford wrong on the mid sized pick up market. Will GM do it again with a diesel cab over?

 

 

 

Cab over semis were popular years ago because of length restrictions, shorter cab, you could have a longer trailer and more cargo. Those restrictions were relaxed and everybody went conventional.

 

As for the Cargo, didn't Ford sell the rights to the Cargo in North America to Freightliner when they sold the heavy truck unit?

I do believe the 10 year no compete was inclusive of the Cargo- the 10 years are up, its a new ball game.

[7Mary3]

I am starting to think cabovers will gain market share in class 4 through 6, maybe a little bit of class 7. Class 8 no way.

[theoldwizard]

That is my fear-class 6 and 7 would appear to be low hanging fruit for the typical "new broom" who is looking for the quick score to put a notch on his Colt.

Let's hope Bill Ford's time in Heavy Truck early in his career left him with some appreciation for that business and if anything it gets some attention to effectively compete in the market.

 

They can't dump it, at least not quickly. UAW contract.

[jpd80]

I suspect that the new broom is wanting to do more with products not less...

Hopefully, that includes Medium Duty as well..

Edited May 27, 2017 by jpd80

[Bob Rosadini]

 

They can't dump it, at least not quickly. UAW contract.

You might be right but I would think a prohibition might exist with respect to a plant closure. If they killed 650/750 I would think OAP would survive at least in the short term as they would still have all the 350-450-550 chassis cabs plus the E series cut aways and whatever might take their place Remember Ford is a solid 35% +/- of class 3-4-5. and if everything I hear is true, they are NOT doing that with low pricing. Ram is king with over 40% of those classes but first hand info I have says they are typically 4 grand under Ford on a comparable truck

 

I suspect that the new broom is wanting to do more with products not less...

Hopefully, that includes Medium Duty as well..

Hope you are correct but it always seems in situations like this the "bold, decisive actions" that take place involve immediate cost cuts-long term consequences are the last thing on the new regime's mind.

[7Mary3]

 

They can't dump it, at least not quickly. UAW contract.

 

They can't close the plant, but I have been told the 650/750 line has been closed for the remainder of the MY. Any unbuilt orders will be 2018's. Line is scheduled to reopen 4th. quarter 2017. That having been said, I don't see them dropping the 650/750.

[bzcat]

I am starting to think cabovers will gain market share in class 4 through 6, maybe a little bit of class 7. Class 8 no way.

 

GM's entry is a big deal because it brings gasoline back into the mix for cabover medium duty. The main point of GM-Isuzu getting the band back together was to make the GM gasoline V8 available in Isuzu NPR again. So I think market share gain for cabover is forgone conclusion.

 

Ford seems content to just corner the gasoline conventional class 4/5/6 at least for now. Ancient product + low acquisition costs seems to be the strategy. There is no telling what Ford will do if someone (e.g. GM-Navistar) comes out with another low cost conventional medium duty.

 

I don't really understand what is Ford's long term strategy anymore. There was a lot of talk of some sort of replacement for E-450 but that appears to be just internet forum conjecture. I got to believe Toyota, GM, Navistar, and Daimler are all looking at E-450 and thinking there is an opportunity there.

[7Mary3]

 

GM's entry is a big deal because it brings gasoline back into the mix for cabover medium duty. The main point of GM-Isuzu getting the band back together was to make the GM gasoline V8 available in Isuzu NPR again. So I think market share gain for cabover is forgone conclusion.

 

Ford seems content to just corner the gasoline conventional class 4/5/6 at least for now. Ancient product + low acquisition costs seems to be the strategy. There is no telling what Ford will do if someone (e.g. GM-Navistar) comes out with another low cost conventional medium duty.

 

I don't really understand what is Ford's long term strategy anymore. There was a lot of talk of some sort of replacement for E-450 but that appears to be just internet forum conjecture. I got to believe Toyota, GM, Navistar, and Daimler are all looking at E-450 and thinking there is an opportunity there.

 

The gasoline powered NPR's were assembled by GM until 2010, when their assembly was taken over by Spartan Motors in MI.. There was only about a 6 month period in 2011 when Isuzu NPR's were not available with the GM 6.0L gasoline V-8. Spartan now continues to assemble the trucks for Isuzu and once again GM. The main point of GM getting back together with Isuzu was to increase Isuzu's sales volume through Chevy dealerships and provide Chevy commercial truck dealers with a wider variety of product to sell. Isuzu lost a lot of volume when GM dealers stopped distributing NPR's in 2010.

 

Strangely enough Navistar is now assembling all the GM G series full size van cut-aways. This was done to free up plant space for the Colorado/Canyon, which are built in the same plant as the full size vans. I don't see Navistar getting into the cut-away business themselves, but who knows?

[jpd80]

Ford really is a class 4,5,and 6 manufacturer with reach ups to 7 & 8 that combined are less than ~200/mth.

The more I look at this, the more it seems like Ford is treating MDs like an add on to SD range and whatever

low hanging fruit there is in sales is all that they are after.

 

I think that the new 7.0 Liter V8 will be well received and increase sales in the SDs and F650 but I doubt

we'll see any increase if F750 calss 7 & 8 series, Ford's engines are just too small to cover the GCWR.

 

At that point, the Euro Cargo and its 13 liter Duratorq I-6 would be an interesting option but maybe

there are good technical reasons why it's still a no show in North America... it would certainly add

a bit more depth to the Vocational end of the spectrum.

Edited May 31, 2017 by jpd80