jpd80 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) The infrastructure issue is not just a factor in less developed nations, it's a very significant factor here. There isn't enough generating to support widespread use of EV's currently. As for Musk, building a practical electric class 8 truck isn't the trick, it's building the truck profitably.......... No country has that much excess power generation that it could cover mass switch over to EVs but a gradual up trend could give rise to better future planning of power needs and charging grids. So maybe what we'll see is a few toe in the water fleets tryong local electric trucks for that clean and green image and savings on fuel over the life of the vehicle and the more miles you do with an EV, the better the return.... Perhaps it starts with EV Vans and goes form there with larger trucks as fleet managers deem viable. Edited November 25, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 the problem is not primarily generating the electricity for EVs, but the distribution. Currently our biggest problem is getting the electricity to where it is being used - our distribution grid is old and weak in many areas. And no one wants their electric bill to go up to pay for the needed upgrades. And no one wants new transmission lines in their back yard. If a truck stop was to put in a fast charge facility, they would need a substation at least as large as that for a major automotive stamping plant to meet peak demand. Same for trucking company terminals. All of this is not cheap but no one wants to pay for the infrastructure to get the electricity to where it will be needed.And what about rest areas that are filled with semis at night? Who is going to put the charging infrastructure there if drivers are supposed to hook up their semi to recharge while they take off time? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) Sales of power are set to increase and those industrial users wanting a fast charger network or even home base will have to pay for that, just like every other industry that uses lots of power.... that's the give back for switching away from diesel. See, the thing is that a change will not be in the form of mass exodus but more like a gentle trickle until technology and price reaches a tipping point for the rest of the industry to follow, that gives power utilities time to plan both generation and transmission capacity....and this may actually be the catalyst to reform the power supply grid. Edited November 25, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 All the hype over the Tesla tractors for OTR and here is the other option that is lesser known from Nikola Corp...https://nikolamotor.com/two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Niiiiikola 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 I'm watching this week's edition of This Week in Tech, and they're talking about a Bloomberg article that's debunking Musk's claims about his eSemi. They said something about the battery having to weigh in excess of 5 tons, not having chargers that can meet the requirements, and so forth. I'm not sure how he could over-promise and under-deliver on this, though--with WalMart, UPS (or FedEx--or both), and the other companies listed as committing to testing this, he has to deliver. If he screws them over, they'll nail his hide to the wall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) I'm watching this week's edition of This Week in Tech, and they're talking about a Bloomberg article that's debunking Musk's claims about his eSemi. They said something about the battery having to weigh in excess of 5 tons, not having chargers that can meet the requirements, and so forth. I'm not sure how he could over-promise and under-deliver on this, though--with WalMart, UPS (or FedEx--or both), and the other companies listed as committing to testing this, he has to deliver. If he screws them over, they'll nail his hide to the wall... The give back would be the weight deduction by not having a large diesel, so maybe 2 tons off the estimated 5 ton battery pack I leave the gearbox and differential weight there as transferring to electric traction motors. Hydrogen fuel as suggested earlier is an alternative as either fuel cell or modified diesel could be used for lower engineering impact. The clean and green competition is there for Musk's truck, alternatives that could be far more cost effective and easier to implement. At the moment, Musk announcing sports car and Electric truck are good news stories to deflect media glare away from stalling 3 production to other plans he's more comfortable discussing....for obvious reasons. Edited November 27, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Let's assume the transmission (roughly 750 lbs) weighs the same as the electric motors. A detroit diesel DD13 (12.8L) weighs about 2500 lbs dry (https://detroitads.azureedge.net/9022-detroit_dd13_ghg17_brochure-2017-06-12.pdf). Add 40 qts of oil and 16 gallons of coolant (I couldn't find a definite number) plus 20 gallons of DEF and that's another 300 lbs. 300 gallons of diesel in tanks is another 2000 lbs. Consider the weight of the drive axles, the exhaust system, (DPFs are heavy) fuel tanks, etc., and that's a lot of weight (another 2k lbs?). So, with all that, we're up to about 6k lbs of weight loss. If the battery pack is 10k lbs, that's only adding 4k lbs, but that doesn't take into consideration any weight reduction actions elsewhere.I don't think the additional weight of the battery packs are going to be as big a deal with a semi as they would with a passenger car. Yeah, it may cut into payload a bit (3-4k lbs), but they can likely make some of that back in other areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 All the hype over the Tesla tractors for OTR and here is the other option that is lesser known from Nikola Corp... https://nikolamotor.com/two And I do believe this thing has gone through several revisions since it was announced as best thing since canned beer. Like Musk, this guy has some big names who supposedly have signed up. Ryder system is also on board as some sort of service center provider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Back to Ford, I did see a F-750 5 yd. dump towing a pretty healthy backhoe/loader down the 405 today. 6.7L Powerstroke. In other news: I heard a rumor that the V-10 assembly line is being dismantled as we speak, if so I would imagine a number of completed engines have been banked for use over the next 18 months or so. Also heard some more rumblings about a soon to be introduced competitor for the gasoline powered F-650/750. Can't comment on any specific details, but I will say this: My impression is it will be more expensive than the Ford, but may offer higher capacity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) Back to Ford, I did see a F-750 5 yd. dump towing a pretty healthy backhoe/loader down the 405 today. 6.7L Powerstroke. In other news: I heard a rumor that the V-10 assembly line is being dismantled as we speak, if so I would imagine a number of completed engines have been banked for use over the next 18 months or so. Also heard some more rumblings about a soon to be introduced competitor for the gasoline powered F-650/750. Can't comment on any specific details, but I will say this: My impression is it will be more expensive than the Ford, but may offer higher capacity. . V-10 line being dismantled to make way for the new 7.XL V8 motor? Edited November 28, 2017 by twintornados 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) From here Unifor, which represents Canadian autoworkers at Ford in Canada, in a summary of the contract last year, said Ford committed to replace the 6.8-liter V-10 engine produced at the Windsor Engine plant with a new engine sometime after 2020. Must have got pulled ahead ! Several publications are reporting, the new engine will be 7.0L. Besides Medium Duty trucks, it may show up in the F150 Raptor and possibly even in a limited edition Mustang. Rumors also say DOHC and EcoBoost, although I find those hard to believe on a truck engine in a cost sensitive market. Edited November 28, 2017 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 An ecoboost 7.0L, eh? That'd be a lot of engine !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 There definitely won't be any ECO in a boosted 7.0L engine. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Let's assume the transmission (roughly 750 lbs) weighs the same as the electric motors. A detroit diesel DD13 (12.8L) weighs about 2500 lbs dry (https://detroitads.azureedge.net/9022-detroit_dd13_ghg17_brochure-2017-06-12.pdf). Add 40 qts of oil and 16 gallons of coolant (I couldn't find a definite number) plus 20 gallons of DEF and that's another 300 lbs. 300 gallons of diesel in tanks is another 2000 lbs. Consider the weight of the drive axles, the exhaust system, (DPFs are heavy) fuel tanks, etc., and that's a lot of weight (another 2k lbs?). So, with all that, we're up to about 6k lbs of weight loss. If the battery pack is 10k lbs, that's only adding 4k lbs, but that doesn't take into consideration any weight reduction actions elsewhere.I don't think the additional weight of the battery packs are going to be as big a deal with a semi as they would with a passenger car. Yeah, it may cut into payload a bit (3-4k lbs), but they can likely make some of that back in other areas. The weight savings will be from engine/exhaust/fuel system primarily. I still see some sort of transmission, and the axles will still be heavy to support/drive an 80K GCW. Add to that battery thermal management equipment, Emotor cooling equipment (low speed/high torque operation generally requires an additional air mover) also. And the inverter/motor controller is not lightweight for such applications - and it needs to be cooled also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 So where is the Cargo? Another player thinks there is enough of a market they can start from scratch! Heavy Duty Trucking (HDT) / December 5, 2017 Rainier Truck & Chassis, LLC, announced that it is set to reboot sales and products with a target production launch of summer 2018 for its Class 4-5 and Class 6-7 truck models. SINOTRUK has signed on to supply its cabins to Rainier's new low-cost, low-tech lineup of cabover trucks. With a starting MSRP of $37,185, the truck will be powered by a Cummins 6.7L diesel, rated at 300 hp and 600 lb.-ft. of torque or a 6.4L HEMI that achieves 370 jp and 429 lb.-ft of torque are standard on the Class 4-5 models. A 6.7L Cummins diesel engine that achieves 325 hp and 750 lb.-ft. of torque will be standard on the Class 6-7 models. Load leveling air suspension will be standard on all models. Ordering is open at www.rainiertruckandchassis.com. Rainier first launched its start-up in 2014 but ran into issues with its cabin suppliers and announced that with its partnership with SINOTRUK production is back on schedule. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 So where is the Cargo? Another player thinks there is enough of a market they can start from scratch! Heavy Duty Trucking (HDT) / December 5, 2017 Rainier Truck & Chassis, LLC, announced that it is set to reboot sales and products with a target production launch of summer 2018 for its Class 4-5 and Class 6-7 truck models. SINOTRUK has signed on to supply its cabins to Rainier's new low-cost, low-tech lineup of cabover trucks. With a starting MSRP of $37,185, the truck will be powered by a Cummins 6.7L diesel, rated at 300 hp and 600 lb.-ft. of torque or a 6.4L HEMI that achieves 370 jp and 429 lb.-ft of torque are standard on the Class 4-5 models. A 6.7L Cummins diesel engine that achieves 325 hp and 750 lb.-ft. of torque will be standard on the Class 6-7 models. Load leveling air suspension will be standard on all models. Ordering is open at www.rainiertruckandchassis.com. Rainier first launched its start-up in 2014 but ran into issues with its cabin suppliers and announced that with its partnership with SINOTRUK production is back on schedule. . Odd that they build them in Washington State, yet have no dealer network there...you have to go to Oregon to buy one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 . Odd that they build them in Washington State, yet have no dealer network there...you have to go to Oregon to buy one... I honestly dont understand the business case for this company. I feel like the market is already saturated by many manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I honestly dont understand the business case for this company. I feel like the market is already saturated by many manufacturers. . Best guess is they are hoping that a larger truck manufacturer will buy them...but, they dont offer anything unique....a Cummins 6.7L and a FCA 6.4L truck motor are the options...not much interest there, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I drove about 600 miles yesterday along I90, I87, I89 and some other roads and saw at least half a dozen older IH cabovers on the road pulling everything from a flatbed, 53 foot dry van, and a livestock trailer. Was it "bring out your old cabover day"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I want to hear more about the upcoming 7.0L. Dang those new 17'/18' super duties in 4wd reg cab trim are the best looking pickup truck Ford has made in a long time. I'm not really interested in a diesel and the 6.2L just doesn't live up the awesome potential of that truck. A new 500 hp 7.0L might make this truck irresistible to me if Ford ever gets around to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I heard a little more about 7X: Rumor is that it will be a 7.3L V-8. Some say it will be pushrod, others SOHC. I am betting on the latter because I think this engine will be based on the 6.2L. Direct injection was mentioned, and turbochargers were NOT mentioned. Look for it in late 2019 as a 2020 MY. The big question I have is will 7X be available in F-250/350 pickups? So far all I hear is that it will replace the 6.8L V-10 in those applications that still use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I heard a little more about 7X: Rumor is that it will be a 7.3L V-8. Some say it will be pushrod, others SOHC. I am betting on the latter because I think this engine will be based on the 6.2L. Direct injection was mentioned, and turbochargers were NOT mentioned. Look for it in late 2019 as a 2020 MY. The big question I have is will 7X be available in F-250/350 pickups? So far all I hear is that it will replace the 6.8L V-10 in those applications that still use it. . Well, if the reports of the 6.8L V10 line being dismantled are true ( and I am not doubting the reports) then the 7X should be making its appearance around that time frame.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelyD Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 It is a 7.3 Hurricane, SOHC 2 valve. Taller deck block. Plenty of water jacket. Casual workplace nickname, Godzilla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 It is a 7.3 Hurricane, SOHC 2 valve. Taller deck block. Plenty of water jacket. Casual workplace nickname, Godzilla Surprised about the 2 valve. I was guessing 3 valve. Also surprised that if they are going to a taller deck that is does not have more displacement, like 8.0L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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