New Light & Medium Duty News

[7Mary3]

That's a Bluebird, not a Thomas.  Thomas uses and 8.8L Powertrain Solutions sourced LPG Chevy Big Block (270 h.p., 565 ft. lbs.).  IC bus offers a gasoline version of that 8.8L as well.  The Bluebird sounds great!    

[jpd80]

November truck sales:

F600………………….566

F650……………….1,166

F750………………….210

[twintornados]

Regarding Autocar...They are currently owned a GVW LLC https://www.gvwgroup.com/ and GVW is a "holding company" that buys up businesses and after boosting their value then sells them for a profit. An example is when GVW bought the P-Chassis line from GM.

From their own website:

 

Quote

GVW launched Workhorse Custom Chassis in 1998, by acquiring the P-chassis assets and intellectual property from General Motors. The company’s management team was responsible for building a new 200,000 square foot manufacturing facility “from the ground up”, and hired a staff of 300 managers and production workers – all in the span of less than one year.

The company manufactured stripped chassis for the motor home, bus and commercial vehicle segments. GVW’s management team developed a suite of sixteen new products, growing its market share in the gas-powered motor home segment from 19% to over 65% in less than five years. After several years of increasing EBITDA growth, GVW sold Workhorse to Navistar International in 2005.

 

After that, Workhorse was sold to AMP electric vehicles in 2015 after Navistar hit their own brick wall in 2012 and closed the plant.

 

My point here is simple, if GVW group is helping in Autocar's turnaround into a tidy little money maker, what company will step in and buy it? Ford? Frieghtliner? Unnamed Chinese firm?

Edited December 17, 2021 by twintornados

[Stray Kat]

20 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

That's a Bluebird, not a Thomas.  Thomas uses and 8.8L Powertrain Solutions sourced LPG Chevy Big Block (270 h.p., 565 ft. lbs.).  IC bus offers a gasoline version of that 8.8L as well.  The Bluebird sounds great!    

Oops yes Bluebird. Don’t know why I said Thomas. 

[rmc523]

12 hours ago, jpd80 said:

November truck sales:

F600………………….566

F650……………….1,166

F750………………….210

 

Wish I had kept track of these when you post them.  I'm curious to compare F-650 numbers before and after the 600 debuted.

 

At some point, I may look back through the thread and make a chart.

Edited December 17, 2021 by rmc523

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Wish I had kept track of these when you post them.  I'm curious to compare F-650 numbers before and after the 600 debuted.

 

At some point, I may look back through the thread and make a chart.

Production is still being affected by chip shortages, so safe to that Ford is selling most of what it can produce.

Way before covid, F650 was chugging along at around 1,600/ mth so there was a drop over covid of course…

 

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Production is still being affected by chip shortages, so safe to that Ford is selling most of what it can produce.

Way before covid, F650 was chugging along at around 1,600/ mth so there was a drop over covid of course…

 

 

Right, just curious the comparison of pre and post F-600 introduction numbers, but obviously hard to compare with the covid effect.

[ice-capades]

2022MY F-650/F-750 Online Brochure

PRO LOADER | STRAIGHT FRAME | TRACTOR

 

2022MY F-650_F-750_Online Brochure.pdf

Edited December 18, 2021 by ice-capades

[ice-capades]

2022MY F-650/F-750 Online Brochure

PRO LOADER | STRAIGHT FRAME | TRACTOR

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Right, just curious the comparison of pre and post F-600 introduction numbers, but obviously hard to compare with the covid effect.

Correct, there was some months / period where F650 sales fell away just as F600 arrived but now I’m thinking that was coincidental. 500-600/mth sales for F600 looks pretty regular now and F650 promising to climb higher with more production.

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Correct, there was some months / period where F650 sales fell away just as F600 arrived but now I’m thinking that was coincidental. 500-600/mth sales for F600 looks pretty regular now and F650 promising to climb higher with more production.

 

This is good news, though.

 

I know we've all been wondering if/how much 600 would eat into 650 sales.

[SteelyD]

8 hours ago, ice-capades said:

2022MY F-650/F-750 Online Brochure

PRO LOADER | STRAIGHT FRAME | TRACTOR

Farley is all in.

[rmc523]

You'd have to imagine at some point they'd want to move on from the old cab.

[SteelyD]

Why would Ford need to replace the cab?  The design is driven by Super Duty decisions anyway.

[fordmantpw]

1 hour ago, SteelyD said:

Why would Ford need to replace the cab?  The design is driven by Super Duty decisions anyway.

 

Well, that's the old steel cab, not the Al version that came out in 2016 in the Super Duty.

[Bob Rosadini]

4 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Well, that's the old steel cab, not the Al version that came out in 2016 in the Super Duty.

 

Exactly-  650 and 750 are old steel cabs correct?  Beat this horse before but......

 

450/550/600 chassis also built at OAP are AL right?

So OAP is working with two Super duty cabs plus the old E series steel cab .

 

Seems like there would  be a good case for a brand new cab that would accommodate 450-750 as well as a replacement cut away for E series.  Must be some commonality for both F and E .

 

And again, I know Ford will never be  a player in class 8 again,  but it would seem that a tandem 750 would do well and serve a certain market where a 23,000 lb single axle just does not cut it...and the operator does not need a 40, 46 or larger tandem.  And doesn't utilize the truck  on an annual basis to justify the class 8 premium.

 

By the way, I used to track stats from HDT on sales.  I came across one sheet...March 2017..Month of march Ford did 2283 class  6's, 6011 YTD.  32.86 % market share, the leader followed by FL at 31.39%

 

I'll see if I can dig out the rest.

[jpd80]

The reason Ford never changed the cab is because they don’t want to spend the money, that’s the reason fo a lot of non-decisions with F650/F750. They are evolved from earlier offerings with least amount of spending possible, the 6.8 V10 was pulled from the grave to get low cost MD sales until the 7.3 was available to replace it.  Everything points to strong control of costs.

[ausrutherford]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The reason Ford never changed the cab is because they don’t want to spend the money, that’s the reason fo a lot of non-decisions with F650/F750. They are evolved from earlier offerings with least amount of spending possible, the 6.8 V10 was pulled from the grave to get low cost MD sales until the 7.3 was available to replace it.  Everything points to strong control of costs.

 

Back in the day,  some Ford cabs were outsourced and also used by other companies. Ford C-Series cab was also used by Mack and in the UK, the Thames Trader cab was also used by Leyland.

 

So, a long common practice to share or keep costs low by another means for these lower volume trucks. 

[Bob Rosadini]

13 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Back in the day,  some Ford cabs were outsourced and also used by other companies. Ford C-Series cab was also used by Mack and in the UK, the Thames Trader cab was also used by Leyland.

 

So, a long common practice to share or keep costs low by another means for these lower volume trucks. 

For sure, and the C cab built by Budd when used as the N model Mack really went through some mods as the N had 673 Mack diesels as well as Mack two stick trans-talk about a mod that I'm sure was not inexpensive-huge dog house and all that linkage for the two sticks-not sure if they were Duplex, Triplex or Quad box-but  regardless-wasn't number of gears but the stick linkage.  

I think the Louisville cab was also  used by others- FWD or Oshkosh???? But that cab was in house correct?

 

It seems though when it comes to medium duty, Ford doesn't have two nickels to rub together.  I guess the economics of  trucking cabs to Ohio plus accommodating two cabs in the same plant is a non issue☹️

[jpd80]

Fords lack of interest should tell you all you need to know.

[twintornados]

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Fords lack of interest should tell you all you need to know.

 

You call it a "lack of interest" whereas it is really a level of commitment to a product line that you don't agree with. 

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, twintornados said:

 

You call it a "lack of interest" whereas it is really a level of commitment to a product line that you don't agree with. 

Huh?

where did I say that I don’t agree with Ford’s lack of spending?

I’m simply explaining that there’s no point in Ford spending beyond what it’s done and I stand by my record on this subject. Bob and I have gone at this subject many times,  we respect each other’s view even though our thoughts are somewhat  opposed. There’s no point offering Cummins engines, Allison gearbox, spicer axles if most of the profit goes to those suppliers but there may be a case for air brakes on the 750.

Edited December 21, 2021 by jpd80

[Bob Rosadini]

2 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

You call it a "lack of interest" whereas it is really a level of commitment to a product line that you don't agree with. 

Well I  think JP that as I look at the latest '22 brochure it shows to me that perhaps there are some people with some knowledge as I don't see some of the nonsense we saw in older versions...like the orange crew cab paired with a beverage body-and not even in matching colors.  I downloaded the critical 3 spec sheets but haven't looked them over closely.

And I agree-  that the continued failure to  offer air brakes with the 7.3 equipped  trucks is not a good sign as to their level  of continued commitment.

 

650/750 would see a big spike in the sales numbers if that were offered.  What do I know?  Not much I guess but having grown up in a building contractor environment before I  went "corporate", I think I  have a feel how those "little guys" think.  Or maybe I  should say.."used to think".  

[twintornados]

9 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Huh?

where did I say that I don’t agree with Ford’s lack of spending?

 

I am saying you don't agree with Ford's level of commitment to the line, I said nothing about spending, or lack therein

[jpd80]

27 minutes ago, twintornados said:

 

I am saying you don't agree with Ford's level of commitment to the line, I said nothing about spending, or lack therein

Not true, do a search of all my posts it comes up often enough.

the post you zoomed in on was directed at those who constantly suggest that Ford should do this or that to increase sales. You’re missing context by basing opinion on my short handing responses.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by jpd80