silvrsvt Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Maybe a better name for the top dog would be Galaxy 500? Sure sounds better to me than Taurus. Mulally is a wizard but I disagree with him on the Taurus name. It does have a lot of recognition but its not all good. It would be like Chevy bringing back the Cavalier or something. Well, not that bad but you get the idea. Sometimes you need to shed the luggage of the past. Ford hasn't used the Galaxy name in almost 40 years...how is that supposed to have any name reconginzition? The Taurus had a slightly damaged name due to its fleet dumping 15 years ago, but that was 15 years ago and it would cost big $$$ on marketing and etc to have a new name. Its easier to fix the Taurus name then start from scratch...first and foremost the name wasn't that damaged. Edited September 20, 2013 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 If the Taurus isn't doing well in retail sales though, but still has volume, wouldn't that mean that a large % of its sales are going to fleet? I can't imagine they're making massive profit margins on fleet sales. Maybe, who knows though (well, Ford obviously)... If my gripes were addressed with the car though, it'd be pretty nice. Thing does 80 like nothing, very smooth, no struggles. Quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) If the Taurus isn't doing well in retail sales though, but still has volume, wouldn't that mean that a large % of its sales are going to fleet? I can't imagine they're making massive profit margins on fleet sales. Maybe, who knows though (well, Ford obviously)... According to this, in 2012, 55% of sales of the Taurus went into Fleet...Most other full sized cars where in the 40%+ range. http://www.automotive-fleet.com/statistics/statsviewer.aspx?file=http%3a%2f%2fwww.automotive-fleet.com%2ffc_resources%2fstats%2faffb13car-reg.pdf&channel= Edited September 20, 2013 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) The full sized car market as a whole is down significantly this year...61% according to this report They can't be listing the Taurus as a full-size, because they show 2,461 units YTD for the industry, but Ford reports the Taurus as 50,656 units sold YTD, with 6,836 sold in August alone. Edited September 20, 2013 by SoonerLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevys Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Ford hasn't used the Galaxy name in almost 40 years...how is that supposed to have any name reconginzition? The Taurus had a slightly damaged name due to its fleet dumping 15 years ago, but that was 15 years ago and it would cost big $$$ on marketing and etc to have a new name. Its easier to fix the Taurus name then start from scratch...first and foremost the name wasn't that damaged. No name recognition can be a good thing. Chevy killed the Cavalier, Chevette, Cobalt, ect.... and for good reason. Galaxy only has name recognition to us old folks. My perception is way better for the Galaxy than the Taurus but thats me. This can get into splitting hairs. The whole naming thing anymore just annoys me. Ecoboost, ecotec, eco diesel, and eco on and on and on. Then there is Fords "F" problem with dang near everything starting with a "F". Edited September 20, 2013 by chevys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 If the Taurus isn't doing well in retail sales though, but still has volume, wouldn't that mean that a large % of its sales are going to fleet? I can't imagine they're making massive profit margins on fleet sales. Maybe, who knows though (well, Ford obviously)... I don't know that they're doing all that badly--I'm not sure if GM (or any of the other mainline brands) make anything comparable to the Taurus, but the Taurus's sales are better than the Toyota Avalon and Chrysler 300. Also, as has been noted elsewhere, fleet sales (at least for Ford) today aren't the same low-ball, "dump these stripper models" sales that they used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Galaxy only has name recognition to us old folks. My perception is way better for the Galaxy than the Taurus but thats me. *Galaxie. Unless you're talking about the FoE minivan. Then there is Fords "F" problem with dang near everything starting with a "F". Yeah, it really sucks, having all those "F" names like C-Max, Edge, Escape, Expedition, Explorer, Mustang, and Taurus... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) If I had to guess I would say mostly brakes and tires to handle higher speeds, but without an objective definition it's still just marketing whether they want to call it pursuit rated or not. Edited September 20, 2013 by NLPRacing 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucky2 Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 According to this, in 2012, 55% of sales of the Taurus went into Fleet...Most other full sized cars where in the 40%+ range. http://www.automotive-fleet.com/statistics/statsviewer.aspx?file=http%3a%2f%2fwww.automotive-fleet.com%2ffc_resources%2fstats%2faffb13car-reg.pdf&channel= OK, then that would make sense of the numbers and Deans sales feedback. I don't know that they're doing all that badly--I'm not sure if GM (or any of the other mainline brands) make anything comparable to the Taurus, but the Taurus's sales are better than the Toyota Avalon and Chrysler 300. Also, as has been noted elsewhere, fleet sales (at least for Ford) today aren't the same low-ball, "dump these stripper models" sales that they used to be. Oh, I'm sure Ford is making money, of that there is no doubt. If they weren't, they'd idle the plant/reduce shifts (at least in theory, sometimes in practice some keep going to make numbers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) I was wondering the same thing, but... I think there is more to it than just HP. I think it has to do with better brakes, handling upgrades, ability to use all that HP for extended lengths of time, etc. being required to make it "pursuit rated." While it probably is a marketing term, I'm betting there are other things that go into making it "pursuit rated" than just HP, and this EB I4 just doesn't get those goodies. Also warranty. If Ford sells a police car as pursuit rated, it means it will honor warranty under normal police use. The non-pursuit rated PIS is really just a way to lower the costs for agencies looking for a cheaper alternative for non-patrol, non-law enforcement use (e.g. parking enforcement, park ranger, housing eviction, community relations officer etc). Remember the pursuit rated PIS 3.5 FWD is more expensive than the Crown Vic PI, never mind the 3.7 AWD or 3.5 Ecoboost version, which are significantly more expensive than Crown Vic PI. Agencies that may have used Crown Vic PI for those non-patrol duties can now buy the PIS 2.0 and save a bunch of money over PIS 3.5 or Caprice. Edited September 20, 2013 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 20, 2013 Author Share Posted September 20, 2013 The Pursuit Rating is awarded to vehicles by PDs like Michigan.LA..ect Those not designated with a Pursuit Rating cannot be sold as such. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 The Pursuit Rating is awarded to vehicles by PDs like Michigan.LA..ectThose not designated with a Pursuit Rating cannot be sold as such. Right... so if some city agency has an RFP that doesn't require pursuit rated patrol car but still require police package prep (e.g. interior partition, plastic rear seat, police radio prep, lighting prep), they can now buy the cheaper PIS 2.0 vs. PIS 3.5 which is pursuit rated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 Is there a specific definition of "pursuit rated" or is that just a marketing term? I'm guessing each manufacturer has a completely different definition of 'pursuit rated'. My gut feeling is that it doesn't really mean anything mechanically, but is more of a legal term because of lawyers. Plus, it's a good way for the manufacturer to drum up more cash by only allowing some vehicles to be pursuit rated. Frankly, I think in stock form, a 2.0 Taurus PI is better in every conceivable way than a 'pursuit rated' Crown Vic. Not because the Crown Vic was a bad vehicle (for what it was), it's just that the Taurus is so much newer and designed much more recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 TTAC had a fantastic article on the Taurus PI (because that's what it is...not PI Sedan...it's a freaking Taurus...call it that people...along with the Explorer) and it didn't do so well. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/03/cop-reviews-cop-car-2013-ford-police-interceptor-sedan-taurus/ The quotes are from the above link...I was faced with the Tauruss second noticeable flaw as a police vehicle: Its too small for a man of comfortable proportions.My son-in-law is in :aw Enforcement and finally got to sit is a new PIS. He was not "overwhelmed" ! At 6'3" he had the seat all the way back and said he would still like another notch. Worse, a few of the officers who were north of 300 lbs absolutely could NOT get behind the wheel ! ... except that the minimal amount of legroom left over after a barrier is installed would probably qualify as a cruel and unusual punishment. SIL commented on this also. I see this as a lost opportunity. Ford should make an optional "stretched" version on the Taurus (standard MkS) with an extra 4-6" of legroom. Volvo makes a stretched S80L. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 The quotes are from the above linkMy son-in-law is in :aw Enforcement and finally got to sit is a new PIS. He was not "overwhelmed" ! At 6'3" he had the seat all the way back and said he would still like another notch. Worse, a few of the officers who were north of 300 lbs absolutely could NOT get behind the wheel ! SIL commented on this also. I see this as a lost opportunity. Ford should make an optional "stretched" version on the Taurus (standard MkS) with an extra 4-6" of legroom. Volvo makes a stretched S80L. Why do we need 300 lb police officers? I do think this is a limitation of the D3 platform. It will be interesting to see what happens with the police vehicles once Taurus moves to CD4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBFlex Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 The quotes are from the above linkMy son-in-law is in :aw Enforcement and finally got to sit is a new PIS. Even new pis smells bad. My gut feeling is that the Taurus PI was cobbled together as a way to have something on the market until the Explorer arrived. I'm not sure why Ford dragged their feet with the Explorer PI and didn't launch it with the 'civilian' model, but it's clear which one the customers like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Why do we need 300 lb police officers? Exactly, unless your over 6'5 300lbs is morbidly obese My gut feeling is that the Taurus PI was cobbled together as a way to have something on the market until the Explorer arrived. I'm not sure why Ford dragged their feet with the Explorer PI and didn't launch it with the 'civilian' model, but it's clear which one the customers like. Why do think that? There really isn't that much difference between the two with the platform when it comes to PI changes...and the "feet dragging" your claiming was most likely production ramp up on a product that is already popular in sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 My gut feeling is that the Taurus PI was cobbled together You probably need Rolaids, or an enema. The Taurus PI was "cobbled together"? Ford sure has some talented cobblers, as their cobblers made the PI able to climb curbs at 40mph and be the best-handling PI in the various police force tests. Let's see what Ford can "cobble together" for the next Taurus. You probably won't like it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) Even new pis smells bad. My gut feeling is that the Taurus PI was cobbled together as a way to have something on the market until the Explorer arrived. I'm not sure why Ford dragged their feet with the Explorer PI and didn't launch it with the 'civilian' model, but it's clear which one the customers like. That's just rubbish, it's not supported by the actual history of events. Ford sold PDs as many CVPIs as they wanted at the time and then offered the new PI and PI Ute after STAP closed. After PDs did full evaluation of new PI and PI Ute, the uptake of the new vehicles was slow in 2012 as most PDs were still bloated with CVPIs they purchased in 2011 but as fleets started to change out, the PI Ute sales began increasing this year.. Edited September 23, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think with LEO's specifically involved for either D4 PI, you'll be playing a balancing act with how far the seat goes back, and putting "suspects" in the back. With that added wall, back seat leg room is short as it is. You start modifying the seat to go back farther for the large girth LEO, and the perp will have to be put in the trunk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) I think with LEO's specifically involved for either D4 PI, you'll be playing a balancing act with how far the seat goes back, and putting "suspects" in the back. With that added wall, back seat leg room is short as it is. You start modifying the seat to go back farther for the large girth LEO, and the perp will have to be put in the trunk! The PI has a different rear seat that allows back seat passengers to sit deeper into the seat giving back room taken up by the barrier. Edited September 23, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) Let's not forget how all the "experts predicted" that Ford would fail by providing Unitary D3 LEVs that weren't BOF and therefore not tough enough for police duty.... It's a credit to Ford that it has been able to transition so many PDs over to the new products with barely two years of sales. Edited September 23, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) That's just rubbish, it's not supported by the actual history of events. Ford sold PDs as many CVPIs as they wanted at the time and then offered the new PI and PI Ute after STAP closed. After PDs did full evaluation of new PI and PI Ute, the uptake of the new vehicles was slow in 2012 as most PDs were still bloated with CVPIs they purchased in 2011 but as fleets started to change out, the PI Ute sales began increasing this year.. And as I pointed out earlier, PIU sales increase is due to ONE agency (CHP) buying a whole mass of it to replace both the Crown Vic and Tahoe. Because of its size, CHP's order for 1,800 PIU over 2 years accounts for all the increase in PIU sales. It's just a pure timing issue... PIU sales suddenly took off this year because of the CHP order, not because agencies across the country have all decided to buy PIU. If you eliminate the CHP order, PIS is outselling PIU by a huge margin. Edited September 23, 2013 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 And as I pointed out earlier, PIU sales increase is due to ONE agency (CHP) buying a whole mass of it to replace both the Crown Vic and Tahoe. Because of its size, CHP's order for 1,800 PIU over 2 years accounts for all the increase in PIU sales. It's just a pure timing issue... PIU sales suddenly took off this year because of the CHP order, not because agencies across the country have all decided to buy PIU. If you eliminate the CHP order, PIS is outselling PIU by a huge margin. I wouldn't say that. In ND, I'm seeing a lot of PI Highway Patrol cars starting to crop up. About 1/4 Dodge's and 3/4 PI in the car area. No HP PU's yet. The HP seems to like Tahoe's. But a I've seen at least 3 or 4 sheriff PU's and about a half dozen local police PU's. In a smaller state like ND, it's just taking some time to get into the market in a matter that I'm actually noticing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 (edited) IN other news, perfect solutions exist only in mathematics. The new PI is safer, more fuel efficient, and more powerful than the CVPI. It is also more cramped. Big deal. And if you are describing yourself as having 'comfortable proportions', maybe you shouldn't expect a car company to cater to you. Edited September 24, 2013 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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