twintornados Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Ok, so its obviously an Escape with a split wing grille. Will be interesting to see the price premium for the Lincoln over the Escape Titanium and what is included for the premium price. If the MKZ is any indication, $10k for 'not much thanks'. The styling alone is not $10k better and Lincoln has a LONG way to go in the service department. Just figure using a local Ford dealer and normal Ford service. Not that bad but no upgrade either. Really?? How is that?? What is obvious is your distinct lack of understanding of the premium car market. An Acura is "just a Honda with a new grille", a Lexus is "only a Toyota with different taillights" a Porsche is "really just a VW with funky headlights"....My service department for my Ford Fusion is their usual top notch service and since they also sell Lincoln, I can be assured that my service needs will be likewise met... Spot on! Nice car ownership history btw! One troll will always support another....right Matt?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 One troll will always support another....right Matt?? Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) See, this seems similar to fans of older vehicles who say that modern vehicles 'all look the same', or, conversely, fans of newer vehicles who say that older vehicles 'all look the same.' I mean, if you know what you're looking at, you can tell Plymouths, Chevrolets and Fords of the 30s apart, but if you don't, they've all got the same basic form factor and the distinguishing characteristics are pretty limited. Ditto the early 50s Fords & Chevys. If you know them well enough to know what you're looking at, you can tell them apart, but if you're not familiar with them it's, "Aaaaah--they all look the same to me." RJ: I'm a fan of new and old styles. I can tell the difference between old/new rides based on design elements each brand incorporates into their vehicles. And will agree that older models shared similar designs here/there, but they were still much less frequent in my view than today's vehicles. Today manufacturers too often copy cat the high selling design elements from others at a higher rate than they ever appeared to in the past. I totally understand why this is done, as sales, profits and volume of units moved is key, so why not copy cat right? To me and again this is just my opinion, when certain design elements aren't attractive and all manufacturers implement such key elements into their design because other vehicles with said design are selling at high rates, it brings down the appeal factor for that segment. Not saying others don't like these designs or believe they look alike, this is just my point of view is all. I love new vehicles, for one I especially like the Ford Atlas concept. I like the MKZ style. I like the Fusion front clip, but not too fond of the profile or rear design. Personally something about the MKZ profile is much more desirable to me than the Fusion profile. Each are quite unique in their appearance. My comment was simply that certain segments, such as the small CUV, here is simply too much similarities across brands. I guess because they both have wheels and a hatchback? Other than the obvious (fascia, tail lamps, rims, luggage rack, antenna) the only distinguishable differences in my view are the design/slop of the rear windshield & spoiler, and what appears to be a more pronounced power dome type hood on the MKC. Which from this angle (which may be playing tricks on my eyes) I do like the MKC's more pronounced hood, as I have always said, I think the front profile design of the Escape looks too low and car like in comparison to the high cab design. Always thought it looked like a car front end (Focus) thrown onto a CUV, and the cohesiveness of these two elements just didn't mesh too well. I agree, there are is uniqueness between the two designs, but see more similarities than I do differences. Edited October 16, 2013 by V8-X 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I agree, there are is uniqueness between the two designs, but see more similarities than I do differences. There's only so much you can do to be unique unless you start to add on warts and bumps like the Nissan Juke just to be different. The smaller the vehicle the less noticeable the changes and the less room for drastic changes. Making something "different" just for the sake of being "different" is silly unless you're just looking for a niche vehicle and small sales volume. The question should be whether it's a good coherent design that's attractive and in this case I think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Other than the obvious (fascia, tail lamps, rims, luggage rack, antenna) the only distinguishable differences in my view are the design/slop of the rear windshield & spoiler, and what appears to be a more pronounced power dome type hood on the MKC. Yeah, no difference in the fender or pillar shapes at all. The only pillar that looks like it might be shared is the B-pillar. Windshield rake appears different. Door openings are definitely different (look near the side mirrors for confirmation) Absolutely nothing on the body appears shared aft of the C-pillar. And when you add all that together, you basically have nothing at all that's the same! Edited October 16, 2013 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yeah, no difference in the fender or pillar shapes at all. The only pillar that looks like it might be shared is the B-pillar. Windshield rake appears different. Door openings are definitely different (look near the side mirrors for confirmation) Absolutely nothing on the body appears shared aft of the C-pillar. And when you add all that together, you basically have nothing at all that's the same! Exactly! The MKC doesn't look any more like the Escape than it does every other compact CUV out there today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Exactly! The MKC doesn't look any more like the Escape than it does every other compact CUV out there today. Even in that regard I think it has a pretty unique appearance thus far compared to the entire segment. As unique as the Land Rover Evoque? No. But it's also aiming to be far more practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Even in that regard I think it has a pretty unique appearance thus far compared to the entire segment. As unique as the Land Rover Evoque? No. But it's also aiming to be far more practical. Oh, I agree, I think it is rather unique, but it doesn't shout "look at me, I'm different!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Oh, I agree, I think it is rather unique, but it doesn't shout "look at me, I'm different!" More mainstream vehicles that need to shout that usually don't have enough good merits to stand upon on their own. It looks like it will be understated, elegant, and classy. Just what a Lincoln should be. Edited October 16, 2013 by NickF1011 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) There's only so much you can do to be unique unless you start to add on warts and bumps like the Nissan Juke just to be different. The smaller the vehicle the less noticeable the changes and the less room for drastic changes. Making something "different" just for the sake of being "different" is silly unless you're just looking for a niche vehicle and small sales volume. The question should be whether it's a good coherent design that's attractive and in this case I think it is. And I understand when sharing platforms, there is only so much that can be done. Of course I wouldn't want something Juke like, even though other than the front clip, I do like the rest of the vehicle design. My comment is if we were basing a purchase on style and appearance ALONE, I do not see enough in the MKC to warrant it's price difference. But do know, there will be much more under the skin to distinguish the two vehicles. My comments are purely based on the style, nothing else. Yeah, no difference in the fender or pillar shapes at all. The only pillar that looks like it might be shared is the B-pillar. Windshield rake appears different. Door openings are definitely different (look near the side mirrors for confirmation) Absolutely nothing on the body appears shared aft of the C-pillar. And when you add all that together, you basically have nothing at all that's the same! Sure a slight difference in fender design, which is to be expected and as I stated in my original post, there has been sheet metal changes. Still too similar in my view. From these angles, it appears the A, B and C pillars are all the same or nearly identical. The only pillar that looks substantially different is the D. But will admit, C might be changed as it looks more sloped, but again could be due to the differences in angles that these pics are taken from. Door openings all look the same or nearly identical, except for the rear portion of the rear door, which may be slightly different due to the slight difference in the C pillar design. There is uniqueness in the portion from the C pillar back, but same design theme with a slight tweak to the sheet metal. Too much similarity in the windshield rake, simply do not see what you speak of. You are right, there are items they don't share. But overall the small adjustments made don't do enough to distinguish it from the Escape. Again, just my point of view. If you see it different, that's fine, that's your opinion. So I'll simply agree to disagree. And again, will wait to see the un-camo'd production version to make a final decision on the design, but as of right now, I don't see enough. Edited October 16, 2013 by V8-X 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 as of right now, I don't see enough. I agree completely. Wait a minute. What were we talking about? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Even with that funky paint job, the MKC is still better looking than the Escape. The MKC just seems a tab bit better proportioned to me. The photo really accentuates the front overhang of the Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I agree completely. Wait a minute. What were we talking about? As stated, yes there has been similar styles in the past, and thanks for providing one example. How exactly does this prove they used similar styles more frequently then than they do now again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Shouldn't that be in the 2015 Mustang thread? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 It has nothing to do with whether they share a platform or not. Flex and MKT and Explorer all share a platform - do they look anything alike? Why do the door openings have to be unique? Just so you can say they're unique? This design looks FAR better to me than the Escape. FAR better and more than enough to justify a price premium just based on appearance. That wasn't the case with the 08 Edge and MKX. You're getting into "unique for unique's sake" here and not looking at the overall result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 How exactly does this prove they used similar styles more frequently then than they do now again? How exactly does your list of differences between the MKC and Escape prove that they are insufficiently differentiated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The photo really accentuates the front overhang of the Escape. the mere mention of my pet peeve has you crossed off my Xmas list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Other than the obvious (fascia, tail lamps, rims, luggage rack, antenna) the only distinguishable differences in my view are the design/slop of the rear windshield & spoiler, and what appears to be a more pronounced power dome type hood on the MKC. Sure a slight difference in fender design, which is to be expected and as I stated in my original post, there has been sheet metal changes. Still too similar in my view. The only pillar that looks substantially different is the D. But will admit, C might be changed as it looks more sloped, but again could be due to the differences in angles that these pics are taken from. There is uniqueness in the portion from the C pillar back, but same design theme with a slight tweak to the sheet metal. will wait to see the un-camo'd production version to make a final decision on the design Please define the following terms: 'only distinguishable', 'slight difference', 'too similar', 'substantially', 'uniqueness', 'same design theme', 'slight tweak'. Or are you just playing around with terms that you don't understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Ok, so its obviously an Escape with a split wing grille. Will be interesting to see the price premium for the Lincoln over the Escape Titanium and what is included for the premium price. If the MKZ is any indication, $10k for 'not much thanks'. The styling alone is not $10k better and Lincoln has a LONG way to go in the service department. Just figure using a local Ford dealer and normal Ford service. Not that bad but no upgrade either. you must lose sleep over Cadillacs $75000 Volt....... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) Because, V8-X, if you're going to critique design, you need to explain specifically what you're talking about. Or is this another instance where you're going to pretend that your loaded words aren't loaded? You know, like the time you told your wife that she was all tarted up and she took that as either a compliment or at worst a neutral description of her appearance. Edited October 16, 2013 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Oh, I agree, I think it is rather unique, but it doesn't shout "look at me, I'm different!" Lincolns don't "shout"...they whisper in your ear with a subtle breathy tone, "Yeah baby....I'm different" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8-X Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) It has nothing to do with whether they share a platform or not. Flex and MKT and Explorer all share a platform - do they look anything alike? Why do the door openings have to be unique? Just so you can say they're unique? This design looks FAR better to me than the Escape. FAR better and more than enough to justify a price premium just based on appearance. That wasn't the case with the 08 Edge and MKX. You're getting into "unique for unique's sake" here and not looking at the overall result. If it has nothing to do with the platform, why are there similarties? Why is the basic style of the MKZ and Fusion similar? Differences between all four, as there is with any vehicles that shares platforms (Toyota/Lexus, Chevy/Buick, etc). But just like there are differences, because they share platforms there are bound to be many similarities too. I also understand the Flex, MKT and Explorer share platforms, and you can tell Ford invested a lot into making each extremely unique. Personally, love the Flex design, Explorer is okay, and the MKT style is horrible. Do I now have to prove why I believe the MKT is ugly and why the Explorer is just okay? We know if someone loves a Ford design here they don't have to provide reasons as to why, so guess I don't need to comment on the Flex style since I like it. I never stated the door openings have to be unique. It was Nick who brought up that aspect and I was simply replying to his post and comments. Where did I ever say they had to be different? You should be asking Nick why he brought up this particular aspect not me. If you believe the design differences are worth the price, great go buy one. As stated in my posts, these are MY OPINIONS and people may defer from them. Never stated my opinion was the end all be all. You ask me why I like/dislike, I'll provide a basic reply as to why. While I'm not forcing anyone into agreeing with my point of view on this vehicle or any other vehicle, I'm just providing my impressions is all. Why are so many people so inclined in trying to force me to like the vehicle or agree with their opinion? Please define the following terms: 'only distinguishable', 'slight difference', 'too similar', 'substantially', 'uniqueness', 'same design theme', 'slight tweak'. Or are you just playing around with terms that you don't understand? RJ: I do not need to go into detail. You are smart enough to know what is meant by these statements. Look at the vehicles and you'll see, I shouldn't have to go into detail to defend my view in essay form. Does anyone here have to go into great detail to prove why they like a Ford product, um nope. You got it, I'm a dolt and have absolutely no understanding of what those terms mean. But hey, at least give me kudos for using them in the right context. Funny, had any someone stated such a comment to you, I'm inclined to believe you'd take offense to such and warn them of a ban. So please don't try to undermine my intelligence if you don't appreciate such remarks in return. Exactly how does trying to insult me improve the conversation of the thread? Because, V8-X, if you're going to critique design, you need to explain specifically what you're talking about. Or is this another instance where you're going to pretend that your loaded words aren't loaded? You know, like the time you told your wife that she was all tarted up and she took that as either a compliment or at worst a neutral description of her appearance. So now I'm critiquing design, because I've pointed out a few areas I believe to resemble the Escape. Why aren't you now asking the people who like the design and don't believe there to be any resemblance why they believe this? Because you know they too are critiquing the design, right? Or is it because you agree with their opinion, so they don't have to provide any basis for their position. But because I simply disagree, I must provide every single minute detail and write a thesis on why I believe this. Edited October 16, 2013 by V8-X 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 So now I'm critiquing design, because I've pointed out a few areas I believe to resemble the Escape. You haven't shown at all how they resemble the Escape more than any other CUV on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Lincolns don't "shout"...they whisper in your ear with a subtle breathy tone, "Yeah baby....I'm different" Bad visual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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