MKC Final Form Pics

[V8-X]

 

"I see too much resemblance to the Escape for my taste" is an opinion.

 

"It isn't differentiated enough from the Escape" is an objective statement and not an opinion and is therefore open to debate and criticism with facts and common sense.

 

Just because you say "IMO" doesn't mean you can say whatever you want without scrutiny and disagreement.

Whatever man...

 

Stating "I see too much resemblence to the Escape for my taste" is stating the same as "It isn't differentiated enough from the Escape, in my opinion". Both state exactly the same exact thing. From my perspective, for my taste, from my opinion, are stating the same exact thing. Both statements are based on opinions, biases and personal likes/dislikes. Nothing in either statement shows that this is the belief of others. Again, read what has been written, not try to over analyze the statement and try to interpret unstated intent.

 

 

I almost pointed this out earlier, but this is a great example where you go from opinion (I don't like it) to objective facts with no basis other than your own subjective personal preferences.

 

If you had left it at "this does nothing for me" - no problem. But when you extrapolate your disdain for the design into the failure of an entire brand that's just wrong.

 

I hate Camry and most other Toyota styling, but you'll never catch me saying that I'm worried about Toyota because I don't like their designs. Why? Because they sell and there are monthly volumes that back that up. Not everybody likes the same things I like.

 

The MKC is not much different from the Caddy SRX (smallish luxury crossover) and the SRX outsold every other Caddy vehicle by almost a 2 to 1 margin recently including the new ATS and CTS. To suggest that the MKC won't sell great just because YOU don't like it is absurd.

 

So stating "my hopes for Lincoln", which again is my belief and opinion and not that of anyone else, somehow turns it into an object response? Sorry man, had I stated something along the lines of "this will hurt Lincoln" or "this will not help Lincoln sales" or "the KMC design will not improve Lincolns portfolio", that would be completely different.

 

My hopes are different than yours. My hopes are different than the markets. My hopes are different than Lincolns. My hopes were intrigued and rose based on the MKZ style. From what I've seen so far of the MKC, this has decreased my hopes (again my personal belief) of the style direction that Lincoln is taking.

 

You can disagree, you may love this design and think it's sending Lincoln in the right direct, more power to you. But because you have a different view, doesn't change my thoughts and my hopes into an objective item. It's again been stated out of personal opinion. Nothing I've stated has been put out as fact, just my personal feelings.

 

But guess I'll have to send all my comments to one of our English professors prior to posting. You know I truly want to ensure any statements I make where people may disagree with doesn't offend their personal beliefs. You know cause their thoughts and beliefs mean so much more to me than my own.

[V8-X]

Why don't we just wait until it's revealed to see what they look like side by side without camo?

Agreed! As I stated in my original post, I wasn't feeling the design but was willing to wait for the camo to be removed before final judgement.

[NickF1011]

My hopes were intrigued and rose based on the MKZ style. From what I've seen so far of the MKC, this has decreased my hopes (again my personal belief) of the style direction that Lincoln is taking.

 

This just confuses me. You apparently liked the direction they were headed with the MKZ, and all appearances are that the MKC continues the MKZ's styling, only seemingly making it an even more dramatic departure from its Ford platform-mate. Or are you somehow suggesting that the MKC is more like the Escape than the MKZ is like the Fusion? I can't really see where that's the case at all.

[akirby]

I give up. Apparently V8-X is using his own dictionary of words and meanings which is totally different from the rest of us.

[V8-X]

 

This just confuses me. You apparently liked the direction they were headed with the MKZ, and all appearances are that the MKC continues the MKZ's styling, only seemingly making it an even more dramatic departure from its Ford platform-mate. Or are you somehow suggesting that the MKC is more like the Escape than the MKZ is like the Fusion? I can't really see where that's the case at all.

Again my thoughts and only that, nothing more. I thought the MKZ design was an outstanding improvement over the Fusion and set it apart from the segment. Not many vehicles on the market in this segment have the appeal factor the MKZ brings to the table. Again to me the MKC while getting a Lincoln work over, I don't think based on the camo pics, that it will stand out or be as appealing in its segment as the MKZ is in its segment. The MKC concept continued the MKZ theme in my opinion, but based on the camo pics, the production version doesn't seem to have the flair or wow factor that the MKC concept or the MKZ have.So not saying the MKC is not a good product or attempt, just not as where I thought it'd be going. Maybe a MCE down the road or the final production version without camo will add some of these fine details.

[V8-X]

I give up. Apparently V8-X is using his own dictionary of words and meanings which is totally different from the rest of us.

Yup you know me, working for a University and dealing with faculty on a daily basis allows for me to use my own dictionary and meanings. You know that's a standard when you work in the higher education world.

[fordmantpw]

Yup you know me, working for a University and dealing with faculty on a daily basis allows for me to use my own dictionary and meanings. You know that's a standard when you work in the higher education world.

 

I've been through 4 years at a university, and trust me, some of the faculty members DO have their own dictionary!

[NickF1011]

Again my thoughts and only that, nothing more. I thought the MKZ design was an outstanding improvement over the Fusion and set it apart from the segment. Not many vehicles on the market in this segment have the appeal factor the MKZ brings to the table. Again to me the MKC while getting a Lincoln work over, I don't think based on the camo pics, that it will stand out or be as appealing in its segment as the MKZ is in its segment. The MKC concept continued the MKZ theme in my opinion, but based on the camo pics, the production version doesn't seem to have the flair or wow factor that the MKC concept or the MKZ have.So not saying the MKC is not a good product or attempt, just not as where I thought it'd be going. Maybe a MCE down the road or the final production version without camo will add some of these fine details.

 

Not many cars covered head to toe in camouflage have much "wow" factor. That's kind of the point of it being camouflaged in the first place. You're following the 2015 Mustang thread aren't you?

[akirby]

 

They aren't as dramatic on the liftgate itself, but they are certainly still present based on those shots. I think your eyes are just drawn more to the haunches on the rear because the window was much smaller on the concept.

 

I see them now, but it looks like you're right - they widened the top to match which is good news - that means the MKC should be wider than the Escape as predicted.

[akirby]

Yup you know me, working for a University and dealing with faculty on a daily basis allows for me to use my own dictionary and meanings. You know that's a standard when you work in the higher education world.

 

That explains a lot, actually.

[V8-X]

 

I've been through 4 years at a university, and trust me, some of the faculty members DO have their own dictionary!

And I'd agree. Been here 13yrs now and have had interactions with good/bad faculty, as you will with any institution. And some, as you stated appear to be off their rocker. Point being, when dealing with Deans, faculty and senior management in a educational environment, you must have certain knowledge or you'll be eaten alive and forever looked down upon.

 

 

Not many cars covered head to toe in camouflage have much "wow" factor. That's kind of the point of it being camouflaged in the first place. You're following the 2015 Mustang thread aren't you?

And this is why in my original post I stated I'd wait for the camo to come off and to see the final product. All my opinions have always been based on the camo version. Sure my impressions may change when we see the production version, then again they may not.

 

Like with the Stang, I like what I can see of certain elements, not fond of others. So I have posted my feelings based on what is available.

[RichardJensen]

Plenty of users on other sites share my feelings

Plenty of users on other sites thought the 2008 Focus was going to fail miserably.

Edited October 17, 2013 by RichardJensen

[grbeck]

Boy, if I had known my comment would be this heavily analyzed, I would have taken much longer to compose it.

[silvrsvt]

Plenty of users on other sites thought the 2008 Focus was going to fail miserably.

 

 

I'll be the first one to admit to that!

 

IMO its still ugly!

[V8-X]

Plenty of users on other sites thought the 2008 Focus was going to fail miserably.

And you are right on this point. Just like users here have done the same. We're all right and wrong at times.

[2b2]

 

This just confuses me. You apparently liked the direction they were headed with the MKZ, and all appearances are that the MKC continues the MKZ's styling, only seemingly making it an even more dramatic departure from its Ford platform-mate. Or are you somehow suggesting that the MKC is more like the Escape than the MKZ is like the Fusion? I can't really see where that's the case at all.

 

imho other than HL & TL graphics, the styling of the Z & C sheetmetal are quite different. The Z's body being pretty much straight lines and angles but the C having curves, esp the gentle arches over the wheels

Z = arrowhead

C = waves/undulations

Edited October 17, 2013 by 2b2

[jpd80]

And you are right on this point. Just like users here have done the same. We're all right and wrong at times.

This is not directly aimed at you btw,

 

What I'm noticing is that a some main posters used to be representations of the various vehicles selling in volume seven or eight years ago,

now the market has changed and Ford/Lincoln is following it, those formerly authoritative representations are no longer reflections of the

new groups of buyers purchasing those cars.

 

I see that as the main difference, members opinions shift from reflections of existing buyers seven or eight years ago to being

a fringe or niche product today, the more that happens the more those people feel disenfranchised because they no longer

represent where the main stream is heading...

Edited October 17, 2013 by jpd80

[Deanh]

Plenty of users on other sites thought the 2008 Focus was going to fail miserably.

styling wise it did.....lol....absolutely AWFUL....

[MKII]

Ford Focus
U.S. Sales

2002

243,199

 

2003

229,353

 

2004

208,339

 

2005

184,825

 

2006

177,006

 

2007

173,213

 

2008

195,823

 

2009

160,433

 

2010

172,421

 

2011

175,717

 

2012

245,992

 

That 2008-2011 thing that had a Focus badge stuck on it didn't tank, but it did not inspire much of a sales blip.

Edited October 18, 2013 by MKII

[EBFlex]

That 2008-2011 thing that had a Focus badge stuck on it didn't tank, but it did not inspire much of a sales blip.

 

Yep. not a failure, but money was spent on a refresh that didn't help sales any from where they were.

[jpd80]

In fairness, we need to remember the background story as to why FNA stayed with the C170 Focus when FoE went to the C1 version.

 

In those day, Ford did not have its finances or costs under control and saw Focus as a CAFE offset for other larger more expensive cars,

that mind set did not allow FNA to see the possibility of Focus as a profit earning vehicle, not until Mulally forced Ford to become one company.

 

The 2008 did OK with sales but the hidden detail was probably how an expensive makeover enabled Focus transaction prices to increase and bring back profit.

[akirby]

2006 177,006

2007 173,213

2008 195,823

2009 160,433

2010 172,421

2011 175,717

 

That 2008-2011 thing that had a Focus badge stuck on it didn't tank, but it did not inspire much of a sales blip.

 

 

 

 

Yep. not a failure, but money was spent on a refresh that didn't help sales any from where they were.

 

Let's add another column to those sales numbers and let's see how bad they were IN CONTEXT.

 

 

...YR.........Fusion........EOY_SAAR

2006.......177,006............16.4M

2007.......173,213............15.9M

2008.......195,823............11.6M

2009 ......160,433............11.3M

2010.......172,421............12.0M

 

The sales jump in 2008 occured before the SAAR tanked as evidenced by the 2009 numbers. Considering the 2010 sold the same as the 2007 even though the US car Market had dropped from 15.9M to 12.0M (a drop of almost 20%), I'd say that's a pretty impressive WIN. All things being equal it also means the 2008 increased market share during that time period.

 

 

Here are the corresponding Corolla sales.

Compared only to Corolla, the 2008 Focus actually gained market share.

 

2006 387,388^[25] 2007 371,390 2008 351,007^[27] 2009 296,874^[29] 2010 266,082

[grbeck]

 

Ford Focus

U.S. Sales

2002

243,199

 

2003

229,353

 

2004

208,339

 

2005

184,825

 

2006

177,006

 

2007

173,213

 

2008

195,823

 

2009

160,433

 

2010

172,421

 

2011

175,717

 

2012

245,992

 

That 2008-2011 thing that had a Focus badge stuck on it didn't tank, but it did not inspire much of a sales blip.

 

As akirby noted, you have to account for the tanking of the new vehicle market in 2009-10. Sales for all vehicles were particularly terrible in 2009. Note that, in the final two years of that body style, Focus sales increased slightly.

Edited October 18, 2013 by grbeck

[NickF1011]

 

Yep. not a failure, but money was spent on a refresh that didn't help sales any from where they were.

 

That money (which was far less than a full redesign or importing C1 Focus would have required) at least helped keep the vehicle relevant until the all-new C2 Focus arrived, so seemed to be quite a shrewd investment really.

 

I thought it looked hideous, but hey...

[RichardJensen]

Good grief. It's been only five years since the bottom fell out of the auto market and *already* people are forgetting this?

 

Geez. How long before some people on this board have to be reminded that GM went bankrupt and that Chrysler is now owned by Fiat?

Edited October 18, 2013 by RichardJensen