Pioneer Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Haven't heard of any delay here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 our source told us that the aluminum (said to be an alloy) supplied by Alcoa Does anyone use straight-up 'loomnum? All the applications I've seen have been alloys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I think the F150 is being delayed because the British and American Ford staff can't decide if it's pronounced "A-lum-in-um" or "Al-you-minimum"... I hear that's similar to the real reason Ford sold Jaguar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 No Rich, TTAC obviously doesn't have a clue about Tier 1 and their contributions. Those suppliers have intimate knowledge as to the real state of play, Alcoa was saying in a polite way, there is no issue...... Someone overheard something about imperfect stampings and just assumed a delay in approval affects the launch date. They don't even appear to know that a Tier 1 supplier sells directly to the manufacturer, that a Tier 2 sells to a Tier 1, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 (edited) They don't even appear to know that a Tier 1 supplier sells directly to the manufacturer, that a Tier 2 sells to a Tier 1, etc. Precisely and more reason not to believe this rumor. And thanks to Pioneer who has not heard of any delays... Reading the posts over on GMI, some misguided GM fans are praying that Ford will drop the ball big time with '15 Silverado. If so then these people really are clutching at straws......Ford will get this right and a new era will begin with half ton trucks because Chevrolet and Ram will be forced to follow Ford and embrace Aluminum - now that is even more scarey... Edited December 15, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I am wondering if GM isn't purposely taking a different strategy with this. Since Ford will not offer a compact truck in the U.S., they may be under more pressure than GM to insure that they get the maximum fuel efficiency out of the F-150 for CAFE. If GM offers a compact truck with 4 cylinder gas and small diesel options, it may help their CAFE to the point that their full size 1/2 tons do not need to be as fuel efficient as Ford's. Of course, that will put GM at a disadvantage to Ford for the customer looking for a full size truck that gets the best mileage. Then again, if Ford does incorporate a lot of aluminum in the next F-150, will they be price competitive with an old tech. largely steel GM pickup? And with the coming oil glut, who knows how important fuel economy will be to the consumer over the next several years? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I am wondering if GM isn't purposely taking a different strategy with this. Since Ford will not offer a compact truck in the U.S., they may be under more pressure than GM to insure that they get the maximum fuel efficiency out of the F-150 for CAFE. If GM offers a compact truck with 4 cylinder gas and small diesel options, it may help their CAFE to the point that their full size 1/2 tons do not need to be as fuel efficient as Ford's. Of course, that will put GM at a disadvantage to Ford for the customer looking for a full size truck that gets the best mileage. Then again, if Ford does incorporate a lot of aluminum in the next F-150, will they be price competitive with an old tech. largely steel GM pickup? And with the coming oil glut, who knows how important fuel economy will be to the consumer over the next several years? 7M-I might be wrong but I think any bets on a coming "oil glut" are not good ones. Yes we are reading all kinds of good stories about US production being way up, thx in good measure to shale oil gains but we can never lose sight of the fact that the middle east remains a powder keg. Take any one of the key players out and we are back to square one. MPG will I think be a key criteria we will live with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) I am wondering if GM isn't purposely taking a different strategy with this. Since Ford will not offer a compact truck in the U.S., they may be under more pressure than GM to insure that they get the maximum fuel efficiency out of the F-150 for CAFE. If GM offers a compact truck with 4 cylinder gas and small diesel options, it may help their CAFE to the point that their full size 1/2 tons do not need to be as fuel efficient as Ford's. Of course, that will put GM at a disadvantage to Ford for the customer looking for a full size truck that gets the best mileage. Then again, if Ford does incorporate a lot of aluminum in the next F-150, will they be price competitive with an old tech. largely steel GM pickup? And with the coming oil glut, who knows how important fuel economy will be to the consumer over the next several years? It seems a less-than-optimal strategy for GM. If the small trucks get 20% better mileage than the big trucks, then they'll need to sell at 50% of the ahh... I'm tired and I can't do the math in my head on this one. Point being, they'll have to achieve a pretty significant improvement in mileage to equal the benefit of an across-the-board improvement in mileage in the F150. Edited December 16, 2013 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 It all depends. How much better the fuel economy of the new F-150 will be, how much it will cost to manufacture, what the price of gasoline is, will compact trucks make a sales comeback. Need a better crystal ball than I have to figure out this one. Just wondering if GM does in fact have a different plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 (edited) I doubt that a comparative "handful" of mid sized trucks will make that much difference, I think the Utilities are the big offset for Ford and GM's half Ton trucks.. Instead of spending on a mid sized Truck, Ford has invested in bringing Transit to the USA , clearly it sees more profit in doing that than bringing Ranger. Edited December 16, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Do not forget about some of the advanced steels that are coming into use and will be coming into use in the next year or to. Very high strength with decent formability. Steel is not old tech, and with the new grades there will not be as much of a weight penalty with steel. Particularly for structural stampings that are related to energy absorbtion / occupant protection these new grades can be much thinner gage (hence lighter) with equal or greater strength. Materials are advancing so fast it is hard to keep up with the technology - why there are even iron alloys for castings that have such a high strength and impact toughness that an equivilent strength part made from them is lighter than the current aluminum part. Unheard of even 5 years ago, but current tech today. Not to knock aluminum, but it is but one of the choices for lightweighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Does anyone use straight-up 'loomnum? All the applications I've seen have been alloys... Yes, they are all alloys. In fact, the Jaguar XJ which is unibody uses two different alloys. The underbody alloy is a bit softer for energy absorption; the outer panels are stiffer to allow precise forms and to prevent dents and dings. Interestingly, if my understanding is correct, steel can be pretty much randomly tossed in a kettle and remelted and remixed with other additives for reuse. The aluminum alloys need to be kept separate. I have no idea what alloy(s) Ford is using from Alcoa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 It all depends. How much better the fuel economy of the new F-150 will be, how much it will cost to manufacture, what the price of gasoline is, will compact trucks make a sales comeback. Need a better crystal ball than I have to figure out this one. Just wondering if GM does in fact have a different plan. Given the price of gasoline has been relatively stable (within a dollar range, give or take) for quite some time now, I would say it's unlikely to drop far below current prices ever again as oil companies, refiners, and resellers all conclude that consumers have embraced it as the new pricing norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 I think a comeback of Compact Truck market is about as likely as the 2 door personal Sport coupe market...LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted December 16, 2013 Share Posted December 16, 2013 7M-I might be wrong but I think any bets on a coming "oil glut" are not good ones. Yes we are reading all kinds of good stories about US production being way up, thx in good measure to shale oil gains but we can never lose sight of the fact that the middle east remains a powder keg. Take any one of the key players out and we are back to square one. MPG will I think be a key criteria we will live with. I wouldn't bet the farm on an oil glut, regardless of what happens in the middle east. Part of the reason our production is up is that crude oil prices have remained high enough long enough for it to make economic sense for the oil companies to suck it out of the ground in the US. Oil companies, unlike GM, can do simple math--they understand that if it costs them $X/bbl to suck the oil out of a given well, and they need $Y/bbl in profit, then they need the price of crude to be over $X+$Y/bbl, and if it falls below that threshold, they'll shut down that well 'til it goes back up. (That's a gross oversimplification, but you get the idea.) And that doesn't even consider the actions of regulators and their effects on oil prices... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I wouldn't bet on an oil glut because any oil we don't buy from other countries will end up in India or China... or in Europe because the Russians are using more and exporting less of their oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 What I am reading is that by 2016 the Import level will be 25% of our oil used. So-if all heck broke loose and we lost all middle east oil, it would seem that 25% is a significant enough amount to have an effect on prices. It should be noted in 2005 we were importing 60% of oil used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Forget the availability/price of oil/gasoline. If you don't meet CAFE, you pay a per vehicle penalty. While the customer may be willing to pay it, it is very bad publicity ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 There's no more per-vehicle penalty under CAFE. Compliance is mandatory. That's why the Feds carved out a nice fat 'German exception', so that Porsche, MB and BMW could comply with the law--without actually complying with the law, and without paying a fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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