China Escort U.S. Bound?

[jpd80]

And BTW, the Escort is not based on the 2008 US Focus, it's based on the previous version of European C1 Focus...

 

Which has control blade rear suspension.......

 

 

Edited April 22, 2014 by jpd80

[akirby]

Fiesta base price - $14,100.

 

Nissan Versa base price - $11,900.

 

 

This thing would be targeted strictly at the Versa at a much lower price point than Fiesta or Focus. People looking to buy cheap buy on price, not brand or features. I don't think there is much profit in it which is why we haven't seen it already. Ecosport would steal more sales from C-Max, Escape, Focus and Fiesta. This one - not so much because it's cheap.

 

Nissan sells 115K Versas every year. It's still a niche market but not tiny.

[NickF1011]

how could it be a completely different vehicle? they sell the focus in China, and the escort along with the fiesta? The escort fills a niche that i don't think exsist in the US. that niche would be currently filled by the Fiesta price wise, it is reminiscent of the old Taurus and the previous Impala a large car priced like a mid-sized car.

How could it be a completely different vehicle? Well, if it doesn't launch in the US until 7-8 years from now (or longer -- who knows?), you surely don't expect it to be the same vehicle that is going on sale now do you? Just as we shouldn't expect the same EcoSport, S-Max, RWD sedan, or Ranger that could eventually go on sale here to be the same as they are today.

 

Fiesta base price - $14,100.

 

Nissan Versa base price - $11,900.

 

 

This thing would be targeted strictly at the Versa at a much lower price point than Fiesta or Focus. People looking to buy cheap buy on price, not brand or features. I don't think there is much profit in it which is why we haven't seen it already. Ecosport would steal more sales from C-Max, Escape, Focus and Fiesta. This one - not so much because it's cheap.

 

Nissan sells 115K Versas every year. It's still a niche market but not tiny.

Versa seems like a very good comparison to where this sort of vehicle could fit into the lineup. There's certainly no rush to do it in my opinion (and doesn't seem to be on the immediate horizon for Ford either), but it does show how it could work.

 

Sure, it's a lower priced/lower content vehicle, but it's surely not a Tata Nano like Biker is trying to portray it as.

Edited April 22, 2014 by NickF1011

[Biker16]

And BTW, the Escort is not based on the 2008 US Focus, it's based on the previous version of European C1 Focus...

 

Which has control blade rear suspension.......

 

 

 

 

yes it is based on the 2004 C1 focus not the US C170 focus.

 

look at the pictures

 

Edited April 22, 2014 by Biker16

[mackinaw]

yes it is based on the 2004 C1 focus not the US C170 focus.

 

 

 

No, it is not. According to the press release, the Escort is based on Ford’s “Global C-car platform.”

[bzcat]

 

No, it is not. According to the press release, the Escort is based on Ford’s “Global C-car platform.”

 

Both C1 and C2 Focus are based on the "Global C-car platform". C2 is basically a very extensive update of C1.

[bzcat]

And BTW, the Escort is not based on the 2008 US Focus, it's based on the previous version of European C1 Focus...

 

Which has control blade rear suspension.......

 

 

 

 

 

True, but Ford took out the control blade to cut cost. See photos I posted in that other thread... It has twist beam rear axle.

[AlRozzi]

 

there IS such a thing a being too smart - trust me

 

 

I try to keep my IQ under 45. As I accumulate knowledge by reading I continually monitor my number and if it should happen to climb above 50 I put down the reading material and take a "dumb" pill.

 

I find it to be very much a reward to me because i git dumber and than i gets much happyer bout it.

[Biker16]

 

Versa seems like a very good comparison to where this sort of vehicle could fit into the lineup. There's certainly no rush to do it in my opinion (and doesn't seem to be on the immediate horizon for Ford either), but it does show how it could work.

 

Sure, it's a lower priced/lower content vehicle, but it's surely not a Tata Nano like Biker is trying to portray it as.

 

the Versa is a C-car at a B-car price. the ugly truth is it's still based on a stretched B-car platform, I.E. It uses tiny wheels, brakes, engines, etc. but stretched to be roughly the size of the a vehicle one size larger.

 

The experience of Nissan is that the Sentra, sells poorly because the Versa competes with it on price while being the same size. They have an issue finding ways to differentiate the Sentra from the Versa, and Sentra sales suffer because of it.

 

the smarter move would be to offer a higher content version of the Focus as a Lincoln.

 

The questions to be asked are:

 

How can Ford differentiate the Focus from the Escort.

How can Ford differentiate the Fiesta from the Escort if they are the same price?

How does the escort fit in with Ford's efforts to increase ASP by offering more content?

[630land]

Sentra sales are up this model year, BTW and Versa down. Nissan is putting cash on hoods.

 

Only reason to bring out a 'cheaper' Escort is to push Focus upmarket, then people won't complain about the prices of ST and Titanium models. Some Americans aren't comfortable driving a B class car [safety] and want more room for less money.

 

OTOH, adding another model similar size usually confuses buyers and dealers will ignore them, i.e. Contour.

[jpd80]

 

 

True, but Ford took out the control blade to cut cost. See photos I posted in that other thread... It has twist beam rear axle.

 

I will check with someone who may know and get back to you but in the meantime,

remember that Focus CB IRS looks like this and without actually seeing more of the underside, it's hard to say if there has been a change..

 

Edited April 22, 2014 by jpd80

[jpd80]

 

the Versa is a C-car at a B-car price. the ugly truth is it's still based on a stretched B-car platform, I.E. It uses tiny wheels, brakes, engines, etc. but stretched to be roughly the size of the a vehicle one size larger.

 

The experience of Nissan is that the Sentra, sells poorly because the Versa competes with it on price while being the same size. They have an issue finding ways to differentiate the Sentra from the Versa, and Sentra sales suffer because of it.

 

the smarter move would be to offer a higher content version of the Focus as a Lincoln.

 

The questions to be asked are:

 

How can Ford differentiate the Focus from the Escort.

How can Ford differentiate the Fiesta from the Escort if they are the same price?

How does the escort fit in with Ford's efforts to increase ASP by offering more content?

 

1) Focus becomes SWB 5-door hatchback only

2) Escort becomes LWB sedan only

3) Escort becomes quasi - mid sized entry vehicle with more room for buyers.

 

A LWB Escort with high series Focus running gear as an originator for MKF would work splendidly 2.0 EB/ 2.3 EB to confound ATS

[bzcat]

 

I will check with someone who may know and get back to you but in the meantime,

remember that Focus CB IRS looks like this and without actually seeing more of the underside, it's hard to say if there has been a change..

 

 

 

I'm just here for discussion and share info... not to argue

 

This is what the control blade looks like in a Focus.

 

 

 

 

At the rear we find Ford's so-called Control-Blade multilink rear suspension, which is comprised of a trailing arm (black) and three lateral links.

A long lower link (white) carries the spring and the vertical suspension loads. This link shares lateral cornering loads with a second lower link (red), which is a much shorter "toe link" that pulls the front of the tire inwards as this link swings through a tighter arc. Up top is the camber link (yellow) which, as the name implies, holds the tire at the proper camber angle relative to the two lower links.

 

 

 

This view from below shows how skinny the "blade" trailing arm really is. The trailing arm is tasked with fore-aft wheel location, so it doesn't need to be laterally stiff. In fact, a little sideways flexibility here is a good thing as the long primary lower link (white) and the shorter toe link (red) swing through vastly different arcs to create the desired amount of dynamic toe-in, sometimes referred to as roll understeer. Meanwhile, our upper camber link (yellow) is characterized by an obvious curve that allows it to loop under the unibody and still maintain a favorable high-mount position at the pivot points.

 

 

 

 

Here's another view of the curved top link (yellow). Since it's all made from steel, the Control-Blade trailing arm (black) is welded directly to the rear suspension upright.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

This is what an earlier spy photo of Escort rear suspension looks like. Note the absence of the multiple lateral links for the namesake multilink real suspension, or the trailing blade of the namesake control blade. What it is appears to be a relatively simple twist beam or torsion beam setup.

 

 

Here is a similar look at the Fiesta twist beam rear suspension...

 

 

 

 

Moving to the rear, we see a very simple twist beam axle. Think of it as a motorcycle swingarm, only car-spannigly wide with a wheel on the outside of each leg. The yellow arrow indicates the actual beam that does the twisting.

 

 

 

 

Like a swingarm, it's all welded together into one big piece. There is no additional stabilizer bar because, well, the whole dang thing behaves like a stabilizer bar. The beam itself is an open channel because it doesn't want to be very rigid in the torsional sense. Its cross-section is carefully designed to provide just the right amount of roll stiffness.

 

You can draw whatever conclusion you want but I think from the spy photo (and the actual production car photo I posted in the other thread) that Escort rear suspension is more like Fiesta and less like Focus.

Edited April 23, 2014 by bzcat

[RichardJensen]

The spy photo is much less ambiguous than the car show pic, where the beam could be interpreted as the cross member of the subframe.

[sullynd]

 

1) Focus becomes SWB 5-door hatchback only

2) Escort becomes LWB sedan only

3) Escort becomes quasi - mid sized entry vehicle with more room for buyers.

 

A LWB Escort with high series Focus running gear as an originator for MKF would work splendidly 2.0 EB/ 2.3 EB to confound ATS

This has been my thought as well, only I'd continue to use Focus for sedan and hatch.

[jpd80]

I'm just here for discussion and share info... not to argue

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

This is what an earlier spy photo of Escort rear suspension looks like. Note the absence of the multiple lateral links for the namesake multilink real suspension, or the trailing blade of the namesake control blade. What it is appears to be a relatively simple twist beam or torsion beam setup.

 

 

You can draw whatever conclusion you want but I think from the spy photo (and the actual production car photo I posted in the other thread) that Escort rear suspension is more like Fiesta and less like Focus.

 

Thanks for posting the spyshot and I now see why you were so certain..

[ehaase]

Perhaps replacing the Focus sedan with the Escort in the few markets that currently sell the Focus sedan is something Ford should consider.

[NickF1011]

Either way, this is all speculation based on one off-hand comment about it possibly showing up here eventually. It won't be in the next couple of years anyway.

[Footballfan]

 

The answer, of course, is that times change.

 

There was no market for the EcoSport fifteen years ago. There was minimal market for it ten years ago. There was minimal market for it five years ago (viz. Kia Rondo).

 

Projecting the C segment forward and speculating that it and segments smaller than it will continue to grow does not seem to be a ridiculous concept. In fact, a resident gloom-and-doomer has been trumpeting the growth of the C and Sub-C segment for years now.

 

To turn around and say that being prepared to fill new niches in this expanding segment is evidence of wrong-thinking is just----it's entirely beyond me.

I would not necessarily say it is a bad idea, but the question is why? Why would a customer buy an Escort over a Focus? If it is for the room, they can move to the Fusion. If it is for price, are you not canabalizing sales of the Focus? In other words, it appears that Ford is chasing the same customers. To expand the C-Segment, I would much rather see Ford offer a Focus coupe, a Focus Wagon, or put a couple of sliding doors on the C-Max and put a gasoline only motor in it and offer it as a true segment-busting "Mini" minivan.

[Fgts]

I can see a NA built Escort on the streets here as Fords compact fleet car. A Focus can run up to 30g now, alot off compact buyers can get turned off by that alone.

[akirby]

I would not necessarily say it is a bad idea, but the question is why? Why would a customer buy an Escort over a Focus? If it is for the room, they can move to the Fusion. If it is for price, are you not canabalizing sales of the Focus? In other words, it appears that Ford is chasing the same customers. To expand the C-Segment, I would much rather see Ford offer a Focus coupe, a Focus Wagon, or put a couple of sliding doors on the C-Max and put a gasoline only motor in it and offer it as a true segment-busting "Mini" minivan.

 

Price is the only reason and the reason it would not cannibalize Focus or Fiesta sales. Remember the Versa is over $2K less than a Fiesta. That would be the business plan if it was approved. Doesn't make sense to compete with Fiesta or Focus pricewise.

 

That said, there is very little profit in such a vehicle so it's hardly worth the effort in the U.S. unless the market shifts dramatically.

[NickF1011]

That said, there is very little profit in such a vehicle so it's hardly worth the effort in the U.S. unless the market shifts dramatically.

If fuel prices unexpectedly spike dramatically, it could. Nice to know Ford has contingencies for changes in the market. Doesn't necessarily mean they will act on all of them.

[silvrsvt]

A Focus can run up to 30g now, alot off compact buyers can get turned off by that alone.

 

What? Only Foci that come that close are a fully loaded ST or the Electric models...a loaded out Ti HB maxes out at 25K

[akirby]

 

What? Only Foci that come that close are a fully loaded ST or the Electric models...a loaded out Ti HB maxes out at 25K

 

My daughter's SEL with MFT was only $22K ($24K msrp).

[bzcat]

Perhaps replacing the Focus sedan with the Escort in the few markets that currently sell the Focus sedan is something Ford should consider.

 

I don't really understand why you would replace one with another. These two cars are designed to be sold side by side in developing markets. Escort is aimed at the value conscious customers and Focus is aimed at more affluent customers that want the same car as Western European or North American markets. Most of the major car companies employ the same dual strategy in developing markets.