Ford's February 2015 Sales Figures

[grbeck]

I was in a Focus group a year ago. I thought it was for a new Ford but it turned out to be the "new" Camry. There was a mix of Fusion, Malibu, Sonata and a couple of other model owners in my group and to say we were underwhelmed is an understatement. The best we could say about it was it was a little better than the current model and we liked the front lights and the wheels.

When you're number one, you don't necessarily have to pull a 1986 Taurus out of your hat. You just have to avoid major mistakes.

 

If anything "dethrones" the Camry, it will probably be a compact crossover. The CR-V, for example, has been outselling the Accord over at Honda recently

[akirby]

Camry is ok for now because they have so many die-hard repeat buyers and Toyota faithful who won't consider anything else. But that is going to slowly change as the competition has gotten so much better. It will take years - maybe a decade or more - but it will catch up to them just like it caught up to Detroit back in the 90s.

 

They don't need a homerun, just some solid updates to that ancient platform and newer features.

[banker55]

Thankyou, I thought that was the numbers being quotrd

 

Not implying anything illegal goes on but thre's a lot of lattitude within the rules to write down as much as possible, especially non-cash write downs that can fluctuate between years.

That is why I like free cash flow as a financial metric.

[bzcat]

On the subject of Toyota possibly passing Ford, I think the attitude from Ford is going to be... we are used to it

 

Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, The Philippines, South Africa, Central America, The Caribbean, North Africa, The Middle East... the list of places where Ford used to dominate in sales but got passed over by Toyota goes on and on. And yet, Ford is still doing just fine.

 

But honestly, I think once F-150 deliveries normalize and the second plant is running at full speed, Ford will put some distance between it and Toyota in the US.

 

Ford is also on pace to have another great year in China and will likely move up a few spots in sales there.

Edited March 9, 2015 by bzcat

[akirby]

Don't forget that Ford has spent most of their resources over the last decade updating their core models (F150, Mustang) and combining global vehicles on common platforms and developing all new powertrains. They're just now starting to look at expansion.

[jpd80]

On the subject of Toyota possibly passing Ford, I think the attitude from Ford is going to be... we are used to it

 

Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, The Philippines, South Africa, Central America, The Caribbean, North Africa, The Middle East... the list of places where Ford used to dominate in sales but got passed over by Toyota goes on and on. And yet, Ford is still doing just fine.

 

But honestly, I think once F-150 deliveries normalize and the second plant is running at full speed, Ford will put some distance between it and Toyota in the US.

 

Ford is also on pace to have another great year in China and will likely move up a few spots in sales there.

It's also easy to mentally misplace the +$4 billion that was spent on increasing Chinese production facilitiesand all t

he ongoing funds spent on rolling out what was it 20 odd products in such a short period of time, that must gobble up

significant funds and resources.

 

No doubt Ford is focusing on its stronger markets and simply doing what is least complex (imports) in waning markets.

It's sad for us who wave the Ford banner and act as grass roots salespeople in our communities but the response

to Mustang ahead of time has been good and I think that as new products like next gen Edge filter through in ROW,

Ford's image may see an uptick as people see the new direction Ford is taking in those markets.

[aneekr]

 

The Camry is the real offender here, with the platform dating back to 1992.

 

2002, not 1992. Toyota's K platform was used for Camry starting with the XV30 series or 5th generation.

[jpd80]

The thought of both F150 plants changed over and production of aluminum bodied trucks approaching normal pace

will be a relief to everyone. The comfort zone afforded by weight reduction, added fuel economy means that

Ford has no CAFE concerns for the rest of F150's product cycle, what a position to be in.

 

Even more exciting is that process being rolled out to SD trucks and Explorer/Navigator in the near future.

Success with such major campaigns should embolden Ford to more with the rest of its product range.

 

Just on Camry "platform"

Toyota considered Corolla, RAV4, Camry, Highlander/Kluger and others all on the same platform,

it's clear for tne sizes and diversity that Toyota is using "platform" as more like a global project

cost centre, not just floorpan and parts lists for individual vehicles. TMC is so big that they

are simply broad brushing the engineering envelope of seemingly unrelated vehicles

that have been evolved/de-evolved over the past decade or more.

Edited March 9, 2015 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

I think it's a real stretch to call the 2002 Camry an 'all new' platform.

 

 

I think *heavily modified* is a much more accurate descriptor.

 

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/DC/7953-05345631.html?utm_content=DN&utm_term=1997-2004+Toyota+Camry+Lateral+Arm+Mevotech+MS86158+Rear+Right+Lower+Rearward+97-04+Toyota+Lateral+Arm+2001+2000&fp=pp&gbm=a&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&gclid=CKSBssyhnMQCFdgNgQodQAkANA

[jpd80]

It's more like the constant evolution Falcon went through over the years, all vehicles linked but

subtle changes/improvements mean that look back over ten years and nearly all parts changed.

pretty much like comparing Freestyle/Fivehundred with today's Explorer and Taurus.

[RichardJensen]

It's more like the constant evolution Falcon went through over the years, all vehicles linked but

subtle changes/improvements mean that look back over ten years and nearly all parts changed.

pretty much like comparing Freestyle/Fivehundred with today's Explorer and Taurus.

 

Right--according to that website, the rear control arm changed in 2002, and the lateral links changed in 2005, etc....

[jpd80]

 

Right--according to that website, the rear control arm changed in 2002, and the lateral links changed in 2005, etc....

A lot easier to secure funding for incremental changes than a significant change in product cycle.

Sure there are probably jumps in sheet metal/trim but done properly, the refresh

is probably enough to keep customers happy....

Edited March 9, 2015 by jpd80

[Edstock]

 

Right--according to that website, the rear control arm changed in 2002, and the lateral links changed in 2005, etc....

 

IIRC the 2005 advent of the Taurus/TaurusX was a massive re-do of the basic platform firewall, with a fundamental design change.

 

Previously the engine/transmission had been carried as part of the front sub-frame with its suspension duties. This changed to direct mounts to the platform for engine/transmission, leaving the sub-frame to handle suspension/drive line, in an effort to lower NVH. I could be mistaken.

[probowler]

I wonder how much incentive there is for dealers to push the Lincoln version.

 

In our small city, there is ONE Lincoln dealer, and it also sells Fords. The dealership always has the Escapes and Explorers placed front-and-center along the main road during the winter. There is not a Lincoln to be found in the front row. You have to enter the lot and look in the back rows for the Lincolns. Not a good way to merchandise and promote the brand, in my opinion.

 

Damn... Ugly step-child treatment..

[PREMiERdrum]

 

2002, not 1992. Toyota's K platform was used for Camry starting with the XV30 series or 5th generation.

On paper. Crawl around one... look below the sheet metal. The platform dates back to '92.

[OHV 16V]

I think it's a real stretch to call the 2002 Camry an 'all new' platform.

 

 

I think *heavily modified* is a much more accurate descriptor.

 

http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/DC/7953-05345631.html?utm_content=DN&utm_term=1997-2004+Toyota+Camry+Lateral+Arm+Mevotech+MS86158+Rear+Right+Lower+Rearward+97-04+Toyota+Lateral+Arm+2001+2000&fp=pp&gbm=a&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&gclid=CKSBssyhnMQCFdgNgQodQAkANA

 

Ford would be just as guilty on more than a few occasions of using the phrase "all new" when describing some of their vehicles then... The Mustang being the most recent example.

 

Toyota's K Platform was all new for the 2000 Highlander, and then the Camry soon thereafter. This platform was indeed new, as it saw the convergence of what up until that point had been the two different platforms for Camrys for different parts of the world; the "narrow" version and the "wide" version. Some minor parts were carried over, but there's nothing really wrong with that when developmental cost savings can be realized. And again, Ford's done the same thing at times, and it doesn't seem to have hurt them at all.

Edited March 9, 2015 by OHV 16V

[RichardJensen]

 

Toyota's K Platform was all new for the 2000 Highlander, and then the Camry soon thereafter. This platform was indeed new, as it saw the convergence of what up until that point had been the two different platforms for Camrys for different parts of the world; the "narrow" version and the "wide" version.

 

Those two 'different' platforms were closely related to begin with

[F250]

On the subject of Toyota possibly passing Ford, I think the attitude from Ford is going to be... we are used to it

 

Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, The Philippines, South Africa, Central America, The Caribbean, North Africa, The Middle East... the list of places where Ford used to dominate in sales but got passed over by Toyota goes on and on. And yet, Ford is still doing just fine.

 

But honestly, I think once F-150 deliveries normalize and the second plant is running at full speed, Ford will put some distance between it and Toyota in the US.

 

Ford is also on pace to have another great year in China and will likely move up a few spots in sales there.

 

Teaching China how to build quality cars is like teaching the North Koreans how to build quality weapons. This is going to end bad for America in the long run but who cares companies can make money in the short term. Hey, greed is good...right. If/when China gets to the point they can build vehicles good enough for Americans to buy they will kick Ford and all the other "teacher companies" out demand and receive open access to our market then flood it with cheep Cherys.

 

Some of the other markets you mentioned like the Middle East and North Africa I'm not sure Ford "dominated" but Toyota can have them.

[jpd80]

 

Teaching China how to build quality cars is like teaching the North Koreans how to build quality weapons. This is going to end bad for America in the long run but who cares companies can make money in the short term. Hey, greed is good...right. If/when China gets to the point they can build vehicles good enough for Americans to buy they will kick Ford and all the other "teacher companies" out demand and receive open access to our market then flood it with cheep Cherys.

 

Some of the other markets you mentioned like the Middle East and North Africa I'm not sure Ford "dominated" but Toyota can have them.

The funny part about Western car makers participating in China is that local brands are not seeing an increase in sales,

the Chinese all want the smorgasbord of foreign cars on offer, which suits the communists because all of their "companies"

get half of the profits flowing from all of those sales...

 

By the time the Chinese are ready to "conquer the auto world", most of the Western car makers will be onto new technology.

[silvrsvt]

 

IIRC the 2005 advent of the Taurus/TaurusX was a massive re-do of the basic platform firewall, with a fundamental design change.

 

No actually that happened with the MKS then moved to the new 2010 Taurus. I've parked a few times next to a 500 with my 2013 SHO and you can see the differences externally. Its amazing how much different the cars look from one another, even though they are same "platform"

 

 

Ford would be just as guilty on more than a few occasions of using the phrase "all new" when describing some of their vehicles then... The Mustang being the most recent example.

 

Why do you say that? IIRC mroe then 80-90% of the S550 vs the S197 platform has changed. Park a 2005-2013 next to a 2015 and the differences are huge in hard points etc

[F250]

The funny part about Western car makers participating in China is that local brands are not seeing an increase in sales,

the Chinese all want the smorgasbord of foreign cars on offer, which suits the communists because all of their "companies"

get half of the profits flowing from all of those sales...

 

By the time the Chinese are ready to "conquer the auto world", most of the Western car makers will be onto new technology.

Old teacher to student: "I taught you everything you know boy...but not everything I know."

[jpd80]

Old teacher to student: "I taught you everything you know boy...but not everything I know."

Exactly but more to the point, Chinese consumers like the imported brands more than the local manufacturers

which has created a dilemma for the Chinese government, the very reason it allowed those Western and

Oriental car makers into China was to develop the local industry. It will be interesting to see how all of

this shakes out as the Chinese market settles down and reaches saturation.

 

It looks like the Chinese are more than happy to sit back and take 50% of profit earned from

the efforts of imported brands than worry too much about advances of local brands,

the effective recycling of money and business activity withing China is Win-Win.

Edited March 10, 2015 by jpd80

[bzcat]

Exactly but more to the point, Chinese consumers like the imported brands more than the local manufacturers

which has created a dilemma for the Chinese government, the very reason it allowed those Western and

Oriental car makers into China was to develop the local industry. It will be interesting to see how all of

this shakes out as the Chinese market settles down and reaches saturation.

 

It looks like the Chinese are more than happy to sit back and take 50% of profit earned from

the efforts of imported brands than worry too much about advances of local brands,

the effective recycling of money and business activity withing China is Win-Win.

 

This probably warrants a separate topic of discussion but there are a couple of end-game scenarios that would be acceptable to the Chinese Govt.

 

First is probably fully competitive Chinese manufacturer that competes with the top tier OEMs worldwide. They are far very far from achieving this goal but don't underestimate the sales of Chinese brand vehicles in 3rd and 4th tier cities and towns where foreign brands rarely have dealers or service networks. The "Big 5" Chinese Central Govt owned car companies - FAW, SAIC, Dongfeng, Chang'an, BAC, are all in the top 10 in the world in terms of overall production volume. And the 6th one - GAIC is in the top 15. And semi-private and provincial Govt owned companies like BYD, Geely, Brilliance, Chery, and Landwind (they are sometimes referred to as "Little 5") are all going to be knocking on the door of top 15 worldwide eventually based on their growth trajectory. That means a lot of existing car companies are going to be small potatoes compared to the "Big 5" and "Little 5"

 

Second acceptable outcome for the Chinese Govt would be sort of status quo but with more localization. Basically, think of Ford or GM in Europe, or Toyota in the US... but without 100% control of production facilities. The way things are going, eventually, VW, GM, Hyundai, and PSA will be very dependent on the Chinese market (some may say they are now) and therefore, their futures are in the hands of the joint venture partners, FAW/SAIC, SAIC, BAC/Dongfeng, and Dongfeng/Chang'an respectively. So instead of the foreign companies dictating the terms of their joint venture relationship, it will reverse and the Chinese will increasingly take charge until VW, GM, Hyundai, PSA etc become effectively Chinese.

 

Third acceptable outcome for Chinese Govt would be a reverse merger whereby foreign car companies are swallowed whole by their Chinese joint venture partners. For example, Dongfeng is now the largest shareholder of PSA, and SAIC owns a chunk of GM. If Dongfeng and SAIC increases their holdings incrementally until they gain effective control, then it is fait accompli as far as the Chinese Govt is concerned.

 

Anything short of these 3 outcomes is likely not acceptable to the Chinese Govt in the long run.

[Kev-Mo]

 

This probably warrants a separate topic of discussion but there are a couple of end-game scenarios that would be acceptable to the Chinese Govt.

 

First is probably fully competitive Chinese manufacturer that competes with the top tier OEMs worldwide. They are far very far from achieving this goal but don't underestimate the sales of Chinese brand vehicles in 3rd and 4th tier cities and towns where foreign brands rarely have dealers or service networks. The "Big 5" Chinese Central Govt owned car companies - FAW, SAIC, Dongfeng, Chang'an, BAC, are all in the top 10 in the world in terms of overall production volume. And the 6th one - GAIC is in the top 15. And semi-private and provincial Govt owned companies like BYD, Geely, Brilliance, Chery, and Landwind (they are sometimes referred to as "Little 5") are all going to be knocking on the door of top 15 worldwide eventually based on their growth trajectory. That means a lot of existing car companies are going to be small potatoes compared to the "Big 5" and "Little 5"

 

Second acceptable outcome for the Chinese Govt would be sort of status quo but with more localization. Basically, think of Ford or GM in Europe, or Toyota in the US... but without 100% control of production facilities. The way things are going, eventually, VW, GM, Hyundai, and PSA will be very dependent on the Chinese market (some may say they are now) and therefore, their futures are in the hands of the joint venture partners, FAW/SAIC, SAIC, BAC/Dongfeng, and Dongfeng/Chang'an respectively. So instead of the foreign companies dictating the terms of their joint venture relationship, it will reverse and the Chinese will increasingly take charge until VW, GM, Hyundai, PSA etc become effectively Chinese.

 

Third acceptable outcome for Chinese Govt would be a reverse merger whereby foreign car companies are swallowed whole by their Chinese joint venture partners. For example, Dongfeng is now the largest shareholder of PSA, and SAIC owns a chunk of GM. If Dongfeng and SAIC increases their holdings incrementally until they gain effective control, then it is fait accompli as far as the Chinese Govt is concerned.

 

Anything short of these 3 outcomes is likely not acceptable to the Chinese Govt in the long run.

 

That is some very interesting insight - thank you.

[jpd80]

LINK

In February, Scott said 73 percent of 2015 F-150s were either Platinum, King Ranch or Lariat. Platinum and King Ranch have higher starting prices than every Lincoln nameplate except the Navigator.

In contrast, those trims, which Ford refers to as “high series,” represented about 30 percent of 2014 F-150 sales.

Granted, the new aluminum-bodied F-150 just launched, and early buyers load up on expensive options far more than those who wait for the trucks to start stacking up on dealership lots. Ford is still ramping up production, with the “Job 1” ceremony scheduled for tomorrow in Kansas City, which was the second of its two F-150 plants to retool. Dealers won’t have a normal supply of the truck for a couple more months.

Ford also hasn’t started delivering the 2015 model to commercial and other fleet customers in large quantities. Those aren’t the type of buyers to splurge on the $1,695 chrome appearance package or fully appreciate the Platinum’s “unique genuine wood interior trim accents.”

“We can’t leave behind or ignore the more value-oriented end of the market,” Scott said. “The people that have been in market the last few years have been more affluent and therefore more high series-minded.”

For now, though, Ford is eagerly building all of the King Ranches and Platinums it can, and dealers have had no trouble finding customers to take them. And a vehicle that generates upwards of 90 percent of Ford’s automotive profits, according to a Morgan Stanley estimate, is hauling in even more gravy than usual.