Biker16 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/mar/18/elon-musk-self-driving-cars-ban-human-drivers Tesla chief executive Elon Musk thinks that once self-driving cars become widely used, traditional human-driven vehicles may need to be banned. “It’s too dangerous. You can’t have a person driving a two-tonne death machine,” said Musk during an appearance at Nvidia’s annual developers conference, where he discussed Tesla’s ambitionsfor autonomous-cars. Musk suggested that any wholesale switch from human-driven to self-driving cars could take 20 years, because of the sheer scale of the challenge in replacing cars already on the roads. “I think it is important to appreciate the size of the automotive industrial base. There’s two billion of them,” he told The Verge. Tesla is known for its electric cars, but the company is also determined to develop autonomous cars too. It has already unveiled an autopilot mode for its Model S vehicle, making it capable of changing lanes and self-parking. “Tesla is the leader in electric cars, and we’ll also be the leader in autonomous cars. If anyone is interested in working on autonomous cars, we’d love to have you at Tesla. It’s going to be the default thing and save a lot of lives,” Musk toldVentureBeat. The Tesla boss went on to claim that the evidence is already “overwhelming” that autonomous cars will be safer than human-driven cars, although he admitted that his industry will have to convince governments and regulatory authorities of this. Musk says the biggest challenge for autonomous vehicles is not high-speed motorways, but navigating urban streets safely at speeds of between 15mph and 50mph. “It’s the intermediate that’s hard,” he said. Can driverless cars be made safe from hackers? Read more Artificial intelligence technology is a key factor here, but Musk has been one of the high-profile figures from the tech world raising concerns about the future impact of AI in other areas, suggesting in October 2014 that it could be the “biggest existential threat” to humanity if not regulated carefully. However, the AI that will be used for self-driving cars is not giving him sleepless nights. “I don’t think we have to worry about autonomous cars, because that’s sort of like a narrow form of AI,” said Musk at the Nvidia event. “It would be like an elevator. They used to have elevator operators, and then we developed some simple circuitry to have elevators just automatically come to the floor that you’re at … the car is going to be just like that.” Of more concern is the prospect of autonomous vehicles being targeted by hackers, with Tesla already investing in security technologies to try to fend them off in the future. “We’ve put a lot of effort into that, and we’ve had third parties try to hack it,” said Musk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yeah. And people are going to get sucked from San Francisco to Los Angeles in gigantic drive-thorugh teller tubes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 anyone ever seen Nostradamos and Musk in a photograph together?.....or did those burn up on the date the End of the World happened?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Where's a Terminator when you need one? We need to stop the disease at its source... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 It's one thing to get a car to drive itself on a closed road with new pavement, perfect lines and perfect weather. Let's see it work on bad roads in bad storms in high traffic, outdated map data, temporary lane closures and detours, accidents. etc. etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Of course, we all know that the safest form of transportation currently available is airplane transportation, which has had a remarkable record now that we've completely replaced pilots with self-flying planes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Where's a Terminator when you need one? We need to stop the disease at its source... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Of course, we all know that the safest form of transportation currently available is airplane transportation, which has had a remarkable record now that we've completely replaced pilots with self-flying planes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzD4tIvPHwE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Eldon Musk thinks cars doesn't need people to sell them, people to drive them or people to work on them...He's a slap dab idiot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 He belongs to that subset of Silicon Valley idiots that doesn't understand where their money came from, that has difficulty with the concept that nothing is virtual, and who uses a reservoir of cash from the spiritual successors of Gilded Age hucksters to shield himself from the vast discrepancy between his personal vision and reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aneekr Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Of course, we all know that the safest form of transportation currently available is airplane transportation, which has had a remarkable record now that we've completely replaced pilots with self-flying planes. As long as Otto Pilot doesn't deflate... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Lets watch as the lawyers circle like sharks when the AI decides to kill people in one car over killing more people in preventing a more serious accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Here's the huge problem. All that 'virtual' stuff? It physically exists somewhere, and there is a stupendous amount of technology and infrastructure required to deliver those bits to the antenna that beams them into your device. Likewise, 'driverless cars' are not going to be divorced from human error. They are going to be programmed by humans, the infrastructure they rely on will be maintained by humans, etc. Why are ever more software patches being delivered? Because there is a staggering increase in the amount of human input contained in all of our software and hardware. There is this titanic, mind shattering, head hurting disconnect between what technology *is* and what it *seems to be*. Musk seems to have completely lost track of this--in fact, the whole Valley seems to have lost sight of this. -- So, instead of tech 'thought leaders' trying to re-educate people into a more realistic estimate of the limitations of technology, you have nutjobs raving about AI and talking about the promise of driverless cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Notice he mentioned nothing about leaderless companies... The problem is never the technology but the way certain individuals see the future and expect everyone to agree with what could most likely be completely wrong. Edited March 26, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Robotic cars cannot deliver their full potential improvements in speed, safety and capacity unless Human drivers are removed from the road. think of I.robot Robotic cars cannot, speed, will stop for every child or adult that may cross into the road, it can be the perfect driver and will lower travel time unless those interferences can be removed from its path. On the highway, you can travel faster, using less fuel in a robotic car. then their the issue of maximum allowable G forces Robotic cars can exceed the comfort level in stopping, acceleration and cornering of most people. Edited March 26, 2015 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 RObotic cars...will stop for every child or adult that may cross into the road, Ummm, no, robotic cars cannot possibly defy the laws of physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I think the point is that the robotic car will drive around at 10 mph like a Prius with a 10 mile line of cars with cursing drivers late for work. In this case it could stop for every child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Not if they walk out in front of a car going 50 mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Not if they walk out in front of a car going 50 mph. Or even 20 or 30 mph. Cars just can't stop instantly, no matter how good the detection system is. Picture an autonomous car driving down street at the posted limit of 25 MPH. Kid runs out from behind parked car to get his soccer ball that rolled across the street just as the the car comes past the edge of that car. It's not a far-fetched scenario and happens. The brakes on the car are not physically capable of stopping that car before it hits the kid. Now, that autonomous car may have a better chance of stopping than a human-driven car, but it's not just going to eliminate problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscalzo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Or even 20 or 30 mph. Cars just can't stop instantly, no matter how good the detection system is. They can if they hit a wall. I wonder how well his theory will work up here on small mountain roads? His comments are one reason I don't buy his "buy direct - no dealership" type of operation. He makes it sound like his cars will never need service and when it does, they will simply come to your home. How's that going to work in the city where parking is at a premium and working on a car in the road is dangerous. Or in the middle of winter? He builds interesting cars but some of his ideas are idiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Ummm, no, robotic cars cannot possibly defy the laws of physics. they can React 4 time faster than a human, plus if there is another vehicle on the road, it can use those sensors to detect people that may enter the car's path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 they can React 4 time faster than a human, plus if there is another vehicle on the road, it can use those sensors to detect people that may enter the car's path. Did you notice that Bob wasn't moving? Did you notice that the laser doesn't work over 30 kph (18 mph)? Those are the areas where I could see it truly saving lives. If Bob runs out in front of the moving car at the last second, the car wont' see him in time to do anything. Faster than that speed and the car won't slow by an appreciable enough amount to make much difference. Will it help? Sure! But it definitely will not 'stop for every child or adult that may cross into the road, ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 hmmm, imagine that Autonomous F-350 towing a 5th wheel with the occupants asleep, A) getting a flat tire, B) gust of wind, C) Black Ice D) getting hacked by the pimple faced Apple I Pad kid in the next lane with ISIS connections....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 it can be the perfect driver What piece of fully automated technology are you currently using that is this reliable? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 hmmm, imagine that Autonomous F-350 towing a 5th wheel with the occupants asleep, A) getting a flat tire, B) gust of wind, C) Black Ice D) getting hacked by the pimple faced Apple I Pad kid in the next lane with ISIS connections....... bingo. you can never replace the human element entirely for every situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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