Harley Lover Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hard to believe in 2015 that something so basic could ever get to the market: Ford Motor Co. has ordered dealers to stop selling some 2015 Edge crossovers because water can leak inside the cabin. Ford is encouraging owners -- without issuing a formal recall -- to take their vehicle to a dealership for a lengthy inspection and possible repair. It’s also telling dealers to check the Edges in their inventory for leaks. The problem involves water seeping through a joint in the front pillar, behind the hood hinges. Ford has created a customer-satisfaction program covering about 19,000 vehicles, though a Ford spokesman said only a small number of those vehicles are believed to have experienced leaking. Ford is telling service technicians to look for dampness in the front and rear carpeting, floor pan sheet metal, dash panel, console insulation and lower A-pillar area -- a process it said could take half a day. Consumer Reports, which published a glowing review of the Edge, which was redesigned for the 2015 model year, when it was introduced in March, said it recently found wet carpet on a vehicle it’s in the midst of testing. “Initially, we thought someone may have left the window open,” the magazine said in a post on its website today. But then engineers discovered that running the Edge through a car wash “led to a sopping wet floor on the driver’s side.” The good news is that apparently a fix has been found: Vehicles built after April 28, when a production change was made at the plant in Ontario, are not affected. Source for the info above: http://www.autonews.com/article/20150714/OEM01/150719931/ford-stops-sales-of-some-2015-edges-for-water-leak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedingtones Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Another factory defect. Well at least they have found a fix to the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevensecondsuv Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yikes. Seems these issue are piling up lately. Nothing major, just failure to get basic details right. This seems to be symptomatic of stretching production as much as possible. Ford could really use another 5-10% production capability for the current market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yeah, the rental I had before I bought my edge had this issue. Floor board was soaked, and car reeked at 5k miles. I was worried rental place was going to think I left the sunroof open, but they were cool about it. No water in my Edge thankfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yikes. Seems these issue are piling up lately. Nothing major, just failure to get basic details right. This seems to be symptomatic of stretching production as much as possible. Ford could really use another 5-10% production capability for the current market. I think it's more cost cutting than overproduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 I think it's more cost cutting than overproduction. Joe Hinrichs should have some heads on a platter. Over the last few years, a core mantra from Fields and Hinrichs has been that they have to have clean launches on new products. IIRC, they even put a person in charge of launch quality. I don't buy the cost cutting excuse. A vehicle having a major water leak in 2015 is inexcusable. Water leaks are engineering 101 for cars, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnm Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 IMO........engineering brain drain. Remember the salaried buyout a few years ago? Lots of experience left the company. The new, younger replacements are sharp people. But I think they are making mistakes that their predecessors already figured out long ago. 30 years in manufacturing is nearly impossible to replace, no matter how impressive the degree is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 IMO........engineering brain drain. Remember the salaried buyout a few years ago? Lots of experience left the company. The new, younger replacements are sharp people. But I think they are making mistakes that their predecessors already figured out long ago. 30 years in manufacturing is nearly impossible to replace, no matter how impressive the degree is. This is what I meant by cost cutting, not materials. They cut way back on people and lost experienced people and that impacts your processes including engineering and quality control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I don't buy the cost cutting excuse. A vehicle having a major water leak in 2015 is inexcusable. Water leaks are engineering 101 for cars, right? The robot applying the seam sealant failed. It happens. When you're building hundreds of vehicles per day you can't afford to inspect every nook and cranny of every vehicle. But they probably should have caught it sooner than they did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 *insert inevitable blame lazy union workers comment here* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Ford has had water leakage issues in the passenger side area for years now...the Focus had it and a few other products also... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I hear two major problems at Ford of late, one they would rather have someone with Dr. before their name in engineering than someone with 15 years experience and take the 2 years experienced Dr. over someone that has been doing it for 15+years. The other is that the bean counters are back in full force at Ford pushing for higher and higher margins product quality, materials and features be damned. Ford is fast repeating the late 90's early 2000's and we know how that ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 in other news, transit WAGONS have a supplier issue with their headliners........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Ford specified the 20 minute high pressure water test on the MKIII Focus at MAP. Maybe it took too much energy and time to use after the media blitz was all over. Image courtesy Gettyimages Edited July 15, 2015 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 The robot applying the seam sealant failed. It happens. When you're building hundreds of vehicles per day you can't afford to inspect every nook and cranny of every vehicle. But they probably should have caught it sooner than they did. The robot didn't fail. The person checking the sealer path did. And it should be inspected hourly. Somebody dropped the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 How did the robot not fail? I agree it should have been caught quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice-capades Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 This 2015MY Edge water leak problem isn't as simple a problem to fix as is being reported. We had a retail 2015MY Edge arrive just 2 weeks ago that ended up being part of the recall and we had to get a "good" vehicle from another dealer for our customer. The customer's original vehicle has been tied up in our body shop for weeks now. The recall fix is only a temporary suggestion... If it works, the vehicle is OK, if not the dealer sends a lot of photos basically and waits while Ford decides what the dealer should do next. So much for "Quality is Job #1" as this issue should have been caught well before the 2015MY Edge ever went into production, let alone vehicles being produced, inspected and shipped to dealers. What a mess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The robot didn't fail. The person checking the sealer path did. And it should be inspected hourly. Somebody dropped the ball. Does CAW have the two tier wage structure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Does CAW have the two tier wage structure? I guarantee if they do, they wouldn't be doing that job. Very, VERY rarely do low seniority people get put on jobs like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 How did the robot not fail? I agree it should have been caught quickly. When robots fail, they don't move. The robot does what it's told. Over and over. To the same points, over and over. Lots of things could have happened. Bad welds. Adhesive or sealant applied in the wrong spot. Maybe even the dispensing nozzle was clogged, or depending if they were using a one or two part adhesive, the nozzle needed to be changed because the material was expired because it sat too long. Maybe there was an dimensional change on the stamped parts and the robot path wasn't checked. This is what I do. And I can tell you, without question, the robot did what it was programmed to do. It didn't fail. The people around it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Does CAW have the two tier wage structure? I think they do, but over time ther lower tier achieve top tier status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 So, apparently, this is a high seniority assignment (per Fuzzy), which was not done correctly. I'm wondering what processes could be improved here--if any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 So, apparently, this is a high seniority assignment (per Fuzzy), which was not done correctly. I'm wondering what processes could be improved here--if any. I can't tell you how the CAW works, but in my plant there are people that check the processes every hour and there is a unit teardown at least one a day that would have uncovered a sealer path problem. Can't say of its a higher seniority job, but it's a bid job and seniority is a factor in being awarded the bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 When robots fail, they don't move. The robot does what it's told. Over and over. To the same points, over and over. Lots of things could have happened. Bad welds. Adhesive or sealant applied in the wrong spot. Maybe even the dispensing nozzle was clogged, or depending if they were using a one or two part adhesive, the nozzle needed to be changed because the material was expired because it sat too long. Maybe there was an dimensional change on the stamped parts and the robot path wasn't checked. This is what I do. And I can tell you, without question, the robot did what it was programmed to do. It didn't fail. The people around it did. The robot is not just a computer - it's also a mechanical device and mechanical devices fail all the time. The root cause could be human error or bad programming or just a failed part. The fact that it wasn't caught is obviously either human error or a process problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) This honestly doesn't surprise me. I'm sure some are tired of me talking about the damn Explorers but this has been going on with them for 4 years as well. Even the 2015MY are having water leak problems. They stem from the roof racks, the seam/seals fail or were not properly done and water seeps into the interior by the 3rd row and down the side or down the 3rd row seat belt. Some also had the front carpets soaked as well and dealers found the drain tube from the moonroof were never connected. Some owners never new about this until they needed their spare tire and found that half of the spare tire wheel well was filled with water.. yes 6"+ of water. It's really a shame that Ford has to be put through the ringer on this crap but come on, as stated, no excuse for this in 2015 for water leaks. 2013 Sport: http://vid1280.photobucket.com/albums/a490/BrokenStrut/IMG_0027_zps4f17888e.mp4 http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...psd7fa8888.mp4 Another one Another one Not trying to change the subject from one vehicle to the Explorer but Ford really needs to step up their quality control with this across the line. Water leaks are happening and there is no excuse for it.. especially when you are talking several MYs. Edited July 16, 2015 by blwnsmoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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