Biker16 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Automotive News seems to think so. They say that the DCT will go away with the 2018 Focus/Fiesta redesign. I don't believe that. The 9 speed is too heavy and expensive for use in compact vehicles. Ford bought out the Batavia CVT transmission plant a couple of years before they shut it down. It's all a tax write off. I think this is a bit more complex than the ZF transaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Still doesn't take away the fact it was "ugly", well hasn't held up well to the test of time Beauty is in the eye of the beholder? At the time, we didn’t think the Mustang II looked all that bad. A lot of folks forget that the 1971- 1973 Mustang was not well received in the marketplace. It was the brainchild of Bunkie Knudsen, who Henry Ford II had managed to woo away from GM. It was too big, too fat (800 pounds heavier!) and to some (me) ugly. Sales decreased big-time from the 1969-1970 models. Maybe it’s too harsh to say it flopped, but it was a Mustang that few wanted. Iacocca reportedly said, “the Mustang market never left us, we left it.” He was right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I don't believe that. The 9 speed is too heavy and expensive for use in compact vehicles. Who says it's going to have a 9-speed transmission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 And who says the 9 speed that nobody's actually seen yet will be heavy or expensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I don't believe that. Fiesta is believed to be going to a CVT when redesigned. With the advancement of aluminum in the Focus, unless something with that changes, you could use the same unit in Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 A CVT, if done right would make more sense. It seems to work very well in the new Accord and could be used in Fiesta, Focus, Escape and Fusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 My guess is Fiesta (and other B-segment C3 vehicles) will either switch to CVT or will inherit the current Ford-GM 6 speed auto, which will stick around even after the 9 speed comes out. Focus (and other C-segment C3 vehicles) will probably use a mix of 6 speed and 9 speed auto depending on price point. Escape and MKC for example, will most likely have the 9 speed. The base model Focus S or next gen Escort in China? Probably not. CD4 vehicles will switch to 9 speed wholesale by the end of 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 My guess is Fiesta (and other B-segment C3 vehicles) will either switch to CVT or will inherit the current Ford-GM 6 speed auto, which will stick around even after the 9 speed comes out. Focus (and other C-segment C3 vehicles) will probably use a mix of 6 speed and 9 speed auto depending on price point. Escape and MKC for example, will most likely have the 9 speed. The base model Focus S or next gen Escort in China? Probably not. CD4 vehicles will switch to 9 speed wholesale by the end of 2018. My guess is Ford Will move all <220ft/lbs Powerpacks to the new Getrag 7 speed DCT. everything else goes to the 9 speed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 personally I absolutely LOATHE CVTS....and I hope Ford just replaces their DCTs with a regular trans, in a compact 6 speeds is perfectly adequate. And I have been told first hand the DCTS are going away...2017-18 models...gone burger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pictor Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 i really like the DCT in the audi, took me awhile to get used to the low shit points in drive, but in sport it is different beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 My guess is Ford Will move all <220ft/lbs Powerpacks to the new Getrag 7 speed DCT. everything else goes to the 9 speed. I certainly hope not. A lot of people I know have sworn off anything with a DCT because of the current generation Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I certainly hope not. A lot of people I know have sworn off anything with a DCT because of the current generation Focus. So bad that global Focus no longer uses it, they've moved to 1.5 EB and either 6-speed man or 6F auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I certainly hope not. A lot of people I know have sworn off anything with a DCT because of the current generation Focus. I am sooty they feel that way, they should drive. The new 2015 focus or a wet clutch DCT. The irony is the same sentiment about the CVT, yet ford walked away and 10 year later is contemplating using it again. So bad that global Focus no longer uses it, they've moved to 1.5 EB and either 6-speed man or 6F auto. Again that had more to do with the DDT being unable to handle the torque than they simply decided not to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 The irony is the same sentiment about the CVT, yet ford walked away and 10 year later is contemplating using it again. IIRC, the one that caused them to walk away from was kinda terrible though. I can see why it would turn them off from the tech for a while. I think they just decided to work on them more before they put them back into the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I am sooty they feel that way, they should drive. The new 2015 focus or a wet clutch DCT. I must have missed it. What's different with the 2015 Focus DCT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I must have missed it. What's different with the 2015 Focus DCT? Maybe it's less sooty. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I must have missed it. What's different with the 2015 Focus DCT? Just a guess, but different internal seals so gear lube won't leak onto the clutch plates. Probably a different shift program too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Again that had more to do with the DDT being unable to handle the torque than they simply decided not to use it. Even the 1.0 EB was given the 6F auto over the DDT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Where is the GRWD? [Just kidding!} 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 The writing is on the wall, 6F is replacing DCT in China and Europe in Fiesta and Focus whenever Ford has a chance to do powertrain updates. Ford didn't chose to continue the DCT mistake with Escape in the US either and went with 6F. The US market is low-priority in terms of compact car and that's why our Focus have languished with DCT (and more importantly no 1.5 Ecoboost!) I would be extremely surprised if DCT continues in the next generation Focus beside a few limited applications (e.g. performance oriented models) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Forcing people to "like" DCT when they expect a nice auto is I suspect part of the problem with Focus and Fiesta and VCTs feel weird to drive, especially the latest Nissan, I found it hard to drive by pitch of engine. Maybe the engine Ford is waiting on is the new 1.2 Ecoboost, that may be the advantage Ford needs in the Focus to keep on top of fuel economy while retaining good performance...just a thought. and because 6F will be sticking around after the new multispeed transmission arrives. Perhaps something like 1.2 EB w/- 6F in Focus is a better replacement for the 2.0 DI Edited August 25, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I must have missed it. What's different with the 2015 Focus DCT? Nothing.. they have been making changes to the DCT since it was released. the software and improvements were already available on the 2014 Focus, it just took another look by the Auto reviewers to notice the changes. either way the lesson learned was the Dry clutch wasn't the best idea for this market, and most automakers are moving towards Wet clutches on thier DCTs. The writing is on the wall, 6F is replacing DCT in China and Europe in Fiesta and Focus whenever Ford has a chance to do powertrain updates. Ford didn't chose to continue the DCT mistake with Escape in the US either and went with 6F. The US market is low-priority in terms of compact car and that's why our Focus have languished with DCT (and more importantly no 1.5 Ecoboost!) I would be extremely surprised if DCT continues in the next generation Focus beside a few limited applications (e.g. performance oriented models) we shall see you should read this: http://www.autonews.com/article/20150417/OEM01/150419881/ford-to-spend-$2.5-billion-on-new-mexico-engine-transmission MEXICO CITY (Reuters) -- Ford Motor Co. will spend $2.5 billion to build a new generation of fuel-efficient engines and transmissions in Mexico, creating 3,800 jobs. Ford, in a statement today, said it will build a new engine line within its engine plant in the northern state of Chihuahua. The plant will build a new gasoline engine that will be exported to the United States, Canada, South America and the Asia-Pacific region. Production of Ford's I-4 and diesel engines at the Chihuahua plant will also be expanded, making it the biggest engine factory in Mexico. The company said it will also build a transmission plant in the central state of Guanajuato, in partnership with German transmission maker Getrag. You realize Getrag only makes DCTs and conventional Manual transmissions. Which product is most likely to be sourced from the U Even the 1.0 EB was given the 6F auto over the DDT. again the Torque of the 1.0 is greater than the DCT could handle. with overboost the motor can produce up to 146ft/lbs at a much lower RPM than the 2.0. Forcing people to "like" DCT when they expect a nice auto is I suspect part of the problem with Focus and Fiesta and VCTs feel weird to drive, especially the latest Nissan, I found it hard to drive by pitch of engine. Maybe the engine Ford is waiting on is the new 1.2 Ecoboost, that may be the advantage Ford needs in the Focus to keep on top of fuel economy while retaining good performance...just a thought. and because 6F will be sticking around after the new multispeed transmission arrives. Perhaps something like 1.2 EB w/- 6F in Focus is a better replacement for the 2.0 DI Again the issue was the implementation of the technology not the technolgy itself. Motor Trend review of 2015 Focus The PowerShift six-speed's programming has improved substantially since 2012, but overall refinement still lags behind competitor transmissions. There's the occasional stubborn takeoff, as it seems the countermeasure against the old software's proclivity for lurching from a stop was to drastically slow the power delivery to the wheels. Upon downshift summons, it sounds like the Focus tranny has to slip the right gear's clutch before engaging, presumably to limit shift shock that'd be felt in the cabin. A transmission that is generally slow to respond in both Drive and Sport modes and has to rev the engine before slotting in gear is not helpful when Los Angeles' windows of opportunity to pass on traffic-clogged freeways are very narrow. Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2015/ford/focus/#ixzz3jqh4IQM6 Automobile Magazine Maybe the most important mental health upgrade to the 2015 Focus is the recalibrated six-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission. The mechanical efficiency of this Getrag-built automatic has been a key contributor to the ability of the Focus to reach 40 mpg, but its unpredictable clutch engagement and frequent cycling of gear ratios could make you crazy. New clutch material and some electronic reprogramming have made this transmission now behave more like a conventional automatic in stop-and-go traffic, and its more refined action makes the 2015 Focus much nicer to drive. Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/ford/focus/2015/#ixzz3jqhYBHLO It not perfect but is much better than most people think it is. the New 7DCT300 with its much higher torque rating, additional gear, Wider Ratio, Light wieght, and more refinement. http://www.getrag.com/media/products/powershift/7dct300/Presentation_7DCT300.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Major change to the &DCT300 vs the current Powershift http://www.getrag.com/media/products/powershift/7dct300/Presentation_7DCT300.pdf Market Requirements Next Gen 7DCT300 Improved Launch Performance and Fun to Drive: - Clutch primary inertia reduction of up to 70% - Thermal capacity increase by 300% - Higher input speed 7,000 rpm 7,500 rpm Higher Fuel Economy Overall improvement of 4% over 6DCT250 - Gear ratio count 6 7 - Intelligent gear ratio span 7.2 > 8.5 - Low viscosity oil Weight improvement: - 71 kg 65 kg (dry, with TCU) Improved Driveability & NVH Refinement: - Higher torque control accuracy of wet double clutch Features that Customers want and demand of next gen product: - Hybrid…AWD….Park By Wire…Integrated cooling….Reduced vehicle level cost Result = NEXT Generation Benchmark Transmission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03 LS Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Even the 1.0 EB was given the 6F auto over the DDT.Isn't the 6F used in china 6F15? FNA probably will pick that over DCT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's all specualtion, just like GRWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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