Harley Lover Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) .. in Europe. I found this little nugget in an article in AN about a new Nissan SUV concept that might be the new "Z": Younger car buyers in Europe are increasingly turning to SUVs, according to a new survey commissioned by Ford. In the European-wide poll of those adults between 17-34 considering buying a car within the next 12 months, a quarter said they would choose an SUV. Ford also quoted data from analysts IHS Automotive predicting European SUV sales would rise to 27 percent of the total market by 2020, up from 20 percent now. I don't know if this has ramifications for the U.S., but perhaps it would indirectly, given One Ford. Granted the Ecosport has not been a complete bust in Europe, but I think it's fair to say that Ford missed the target with that product in Europe. The quote above occurs in an article about a B/C size crossover, so the subtext seems to be about smaller CUV/SUV's. Given the results of Ford's own study, what might the ramifications for the product line be in the next, say, 5 years? AN link:http://europe.autonews.com/article/20150908/ANE/150909895/nissan-teases-crossover-concept?cciid=email-ane-daily Edited September 8, 2015 by Harley Lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I would assume Ford NA is working on the new Ecosport given their experience with utilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I would assume Ford NA is working on the new Ecosport given their experience with utilities. Never assume.....Ford let the other parts of the empire develop Ranger despite Ford NA's vast knowledge in truck manufacturing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Never assume.....Ford let the other parts of the empire develop Ranger despite Ford NA's vast knowledge in truck manufacturing... That was before One Ford where ROW did their own thing anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 That was before One Ford where ROW did their own thing anyway. The new Focus RS was developed primarily in Europe by FOE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 The new Focus RS was developed primarily in Europe by FOE. Because Europe knows small cars better than NA. But NA knows utilities much better than Europe. And full sized trucks, muscle cars and larger cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Because Europe knows small cars better than NA. But NA knows utilities much better than Europe. And full sized trucks, muscle cars and larger cars. True, but you implied that One Ford renders that irrelevant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 True, but you implied that One Ford renders that irrelevant I think you misread that. I was only talking about the ROW Ranger being engineered outside NA even though NA knows the most about trucks. My point was before One Ford that was allowed to happen a lot (Euro Focus vs. NA Focus, Escape/Kuga, Aussie vehicles, etc. etc.) but now Ford has consolidated vehicle platforms and development. Europe has traditionally been better with small cars and NA has been better with utilities. Therefore it would make sense for NA to take the lead on a new Ecosport rather then Europe, especially since the current Euro designed Ecosport is not that great. Just like I expect Europe to take the lead on a new Fiesta or Focus. Not saying it has to be that way but I'd be surprised if NA doesn't have significant input into a new Ecosport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Given the results of Ford's own study, what might the ramifications for the product line be in the next, say, 5 years? Seems fairly obvious... Ford Europe (along with everyone else) will have to field a CUV in every size. That means we will probably see something like this: A-segment: Something based on the Figo, to replace the current EcoSport. Ford has to keep it under 4 meters long for India. We probably won't see this in the US. B-segment: Something bigger than EcoSport that can sell in developed market for a premium over Fiesta. We will see this in the US, 100% guaranteed. C-segment: Something about the size of Focus hatchback. This is a key segment that Ford Europe is not competing right now and one of the fastest growing segment. We may see this in the US. CD-segment: Something about the size of Focus wagon - next generation Kuga/Escape. I think this will become a US-lead product, rather than Ford Europe lead product. D-segment: Something about the size of Mondeo - say hello to Edge. This will continue to be a US-lead product. There maybe some opportunity for Ford to get into the premium CUV segment in Europe too with next generation Explorer. Edited September 8, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Kuga is C-segment. Edge is CD Segment. Explorer is D-segment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Is A-segment that big in Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tico Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) I would agree younger gen seems to like CUV over sedans. I think they grew up having one of each in thier parents garage. While learning to drive they came to prefer the feeling of safety in bad weather and extra space of the SUV / CUV. They don't have the emotional attachment to sedans and coups that older generations do. No fond memories of the cars of the 1900s. ha ha. In this way they are more practical. The sales figures in the US probably show the same trends. I guess cars will be for us old people only soon. I have one if each in the garage and daughter / wife prefer the CUV even though it is older and not as well equipped as the sedan. Edited September 8, 2015 by Tico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Is A-segment that big in Europe? A-segment hatchback is a quite big market in Europe with 11% of the overall new car sales in 2014 (Ford Ka, Opel Adam, Renault Twingo, Smart ForTwo, Hyundai i10, Kia Picanto, Fiat Panda, Fiat 500, Peugeot 108, Citroen C1, Toyota Aygo, VW Up, Skoda Citigo, Seat Mii) A-segment CUV not yet, hence EcoSport is not resonating with the market. But there is a lot of A-segment CUVs on the drawing board now that are due in European markets in the next year or 2 (VW Taigun+Skoda and Seat version, Renault Kwid+Nissan version, PSA+Toyota A-segment CUV project) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Kuga is C-segment. Edge is CD Segment. Explorer is D-segment. Mondeo is D-segment so Edge is D also. Explorer would be E-segment (Ford Taurus would fall in this size too) if you measure it by size. Kuga is technically C-segment but there is a divergent path in C-segment CUVs with two distinct sizes so I'm referring it as "CD". There is no official EU designation for "CD" size vehicles - anything bigger than the average C and smaller than the average D is "CD" by virtue of its size. Ford calls its midsize car platform "CD" because it can be for C or D segment vehicles. For example, Land Rover Freelander was EUCD platform but C-segment CUV, while the previous gen Mondeo was also EUCD but D-segment sedan/wagon. The EU A-B-C-D-E vehicle size class is based on German size classification pre-EU. The countries in Southern Europe had different tax schemes based on vehicle size and engine displacements prior to EU harmonization so some cars didn't fit the German A-B-C-D-E size very well. The term "CD" was originally coined to describe mostly French and Italian sedans (e.g. Peugeot 305 and Fiat Regatta) that were literally between classic German C segment sedans (e.g. VW Jetta or Ford Escort) and D segment sedans (e.g. VW Passat or Ford Sierra). Edited September 8, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I would agree younger gen seems to like CUV over sedans. I think they grew up having one of each in thier parents garage. While learning to drive they came to prefer the feeling of safety in bad weather and extra space of the SUV / CUV. They don't have the emotional attachment to sedans and coups that older generations do. No fond memories of the cars of the 1900s. ha ha. In this way they are more practical. The sales figures in the US probably show the same trends. I guess cars will be for us old people only soon. I have one if each in the garage and daughter / wife prefer the CUV even though it is older and not as well equipped as the sedan. Ever try moving or bringing home a tv in a sedan or coupe (a 50" will fit in the back of an accord coupe btw)? It's no wonder that us Younger folk like CUVs. If you're married and have two vehicles in your household one can be a sedan because you don't have to worry about utility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Ever try moving or bringing home a tv in a sedan or coupe (a 50" will fit in the back of an accord coupe btw)? It's no wonder that us Younger folk like CUVs. If you're married and have two vehicles in your household one can be a sedan because you don't have to worry about utility. Speak for yourself dude, I don't ever want a CUV. I don't care about the utility. A hockey stick still fits in a Focus, and at the point when I have kids, I'll likely begrudgingly get a Fusiom since as we all know, no living human with legs can fit in the back seat of a Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) The people who really got their noses bent out of shape with T6 Ranger development were the Mazda engineering team who thought FAPA lacked the maturity of design to do the job properly....... USA had its finger on the pulse but after Ford NA wasn't able to get a smaller truck under the T6 product envelope, they pretty much pulled out with little interest on what was being developed, keep in mind that was early 2006 mind frame. Edited September 8, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Most of my friends (Millenials) buying CUVs are really doing it only because they are fat, and tell me it's more comfortable getting into an SUV than a sedan. OH how many complaints I've had about my car sitting "low" and them having an issue getting in and out. YET, I ask them how they were able to spread'um and get pregnant and pop out the next spoiled brat. If anything this generation is using kids as the main excuse to purchase a vehicle. Yet some of us came from the "coupe" generation that simply told kids to crawl into the backseat (without a seatbelt) and shut up. Oh how I wish Ford would do a luxury coupe so they would stop climbing into my car. Its all "fun" till I throw my car on a curve and suddenly they are screaming for Gods and Saints when they see death in the horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) Speak for yourself dude, I don't ever want a CUV. I don't care about the utility. A hockey stick still fits in a Focus, and at the point when I have kids, I'll likely begrudgingly get a Fusiom since as we all know, no living human with legs can fit in the back seat of a Focus. The Focus hatch does very well for itself, the new Ecoboost 1.5 goes well in them, I just wish our Sports model got the 180 hp version, that would make a perfect sub-ST car People like yourself that either don't want ot don't need Utilities or trucks still have to be catered for properly. The day Ford starts getting lazy with its remaining car sales is the day it loses a strategic part of the market. Edited September 9, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Speak for yourself dude, I don't ever want a CUV. I don't care about the utility. A hockey stick still fits in a Focus, and at the point when I have kids, I'll likely begrudgingly get a Fusiom since as we all know, no living human with legs can fit in the back seat of a Focus. While I only have a newborn (why I sold my focus) my wife and I watch our niece and nephews regularly. Good luck with 2 kids plus their friend (and all their junk) in a fusion. Been there, done that. It's a pita to have to empty the trunk to get one item from the back. I love my truck but my favorite vehicle I've ever owned was my 2008 Fusion. It just stops being practical when you cart around kids and household items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzach Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 While I only have a newborn (why I sold my focus) my wife and I watch our niece and nephews regularly. Good luck with 2 kids plus their friend (and all their junk) in a fusion. Been there, done that. It's a pita to have to empty the trunk to get one item from the back. I love my truck but my favorite vehicle I've ever owned was my 2008 Fusion. It just stops being practical when you cart around kids and household items. It may not seem it now but before you know it they will start doing more on their own and then be off to college. Then you can have more freedom in your choice of car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 It may not seem it now but before you know it they will start doing more on their own and then be off to college. Then you can have more freedom in your choice of car. And Orange Juice. We just bought orange juice WITH pulp for the first time in 25+ years! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 And Orange Juice. We just bought orange juice WITH pulp for the first time in 25+ years! Guess it really is the little things. Ps I've already been spit up on and pee'd on this morning. :/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) Therefore it would make sense for NA to take the lead on a new Ecosport rather then Europe, especially since the current Euro designed Ecosport is not that great. Just like I expect Europe to take the lead on a new Fiesta or Focus.. The project (current EcoSport) was led by Ford’s Development Centre in Brazil. Here is FoE press release relating to the studies on young drivers and SUV`s, plus a bunch of AWD and EcoSPort, Kuga update details and euro spec Edge with more details at the 2015 Frankfurt auto show IAA http://iaa2015.fordpresskits.com/ Edited September 9, 2015 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Didn't realize it was done in Brazil. Either way I expect NA to have a lot of input on it and any other utilities if they're global vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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