rmc523 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Sorry, I didn't explain that too well.. Probably unrealistic given the time line but thinking that having two plants would give Ford the opportunity to continue building D3 Explorers at Oakville while CAP is down switching to CD6, CAP comes on line and then Oakville goes down and back up - a bit like F150 at Dearborn and kansas City but with less drama.. Apologies in advance because compared to MKT, I have no shame when it comes to bringing an Aviator, even if it was a thinly disguised D3 Explorer Titanium with new Continental grille, a place holder until 2018... There's still a lot of D3 Explorer sales to be had, just wanting Ford to cash in hard and grow volume ahead of the switch over.... probably stupid and greedy but what the heck.. I just think they'd be shooting themselves in the foot with a D4 Aviator at this point. It's going to be so compromised and too Explorer-based for the direction they're going, and it would go against what they've worked toward the past few years. The last thing they need is another "lightly restyled" Explorer in the showroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I just think they'd be shooting themselves in the foot with a D4 Aviator at this point. It's going to be so compromised and too Explorer-based for the direction they're going, and it would go against what they've worked toward the past few years. The last thing they need is another "lightly restyled" Explorer in the showroom. Why? even at those modest sales, it's pulling remarkable transaction prices, there's lots worse fates than that. Also D3 Explorer/Aviator at Oakville is a convenient jump off point for exports to China. A plan for the future no doubt...and yes I agree thatn I'm getting ahead of myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Why? even at those modest sales, it's pulling remarkable transaction prices, there's lots worse fates than that. Also D3 Explorer/Aviator at Oakville is a convenient jump off point for exports to China. A plan for the future no doubt...and yes I agree thatn I'm getting ahead of myself... It's an image thing. Lincoln has worked hard the last few years to differentiate themselves from their Ford counterparts. Navigator aside, they're finally making strides in that department, not only in general, but in reviews as well. Also, consider how they won't be using "#.#T" in lieu of EcoBoost badging - another move to differentiate themselves from Ford. Why backtrack on all of that progress, just to pump out a mediocre (in terms of where they are wanting to go), slightly-revised-Explorer Aviator stopgap to last a year or two in the marketplace? I'm not denying that it would probably sell decently, but it'd be a compromised product both in terms of the product itself, but also in brand image.......I'd rather them wait, take the short term sales hit, and have an all-out full effort CD6 Aviator with no compromises that continues the differentiation we've seen, and will see going forward, and help set them up for longer-term success. They're not going to shed the "tarted up Ford" image if they continue to throw out just that, even as a stop gap product (Navigator refresh was a different story, as it already existed). It'll look like more of the same from Lincoln. Not to mention the cost of creating a new product just to last 2-3 years at most. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 There was a D4 Aviator in development. They decided to reach higher, so to soak 2. The days of placeholder product at Lincoln are over. Thank goodness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) D3 Explorer Titanium with new Continental grille, a place holder until 2018...I don't think the Ford badge is holding back the Explorer Platinum (there is no Explorer Titanium) either in terms of features or potential buyers. My parents, who have not considered a domestic since a bad Oldsmobile experience in the early 90s (they've been all Lexus save one Benz since) are considering one. People are used to high end Fords when it comes to trucks and SUVs. (And ironically they likely would not consider it as a Lincoln.) Edited December 2, 2015 by sullynd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I don't think the Ford badge is holding back the Explorer Platinum (there is no Explorer Titanium) either in terms of features or potential buyers. My parents, who have not considered a domestic since a bad Oldsmobile experience in the early 90s (they've been all Lexus save one Benz since) are considering one. People are used to high end Fords when it comes to trucks and SUVs. (And ironically they likely would not consider it as a Lincoln.) Thanks, I misspoke Titanium instead of Platinum, my post was not meant as a put down of the Platinum raising Ford brand image, it is a very good package indeed. Amazing how many Utilities and F Series Ford still gets out the door, all with strong ATPs Transit and Transit Connect sales are also holding up well too, all wonderful to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The current U.S. market Ford Focus has a poor record for reliability Friend of mine was shopping used cars. He was looking at a 2012 Focus. Saw reviews of the transmission online. Mentioned them to me, and what could I say? That is unquestionably the worst transmission Ford has put in a product in decades. I don't think they've had a worse transmission since their first FWD automatic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I'm kind of infatuated with the idea of converting the D3/4 side at Oakville into an Explorer/Aviator overflow plant.. it wouldn't take that much to change over especially with staying D3 which will be changing in a few years. I have been thinking about the investments Ford is making and not making in latest Agreement and how it fits in with the rumored platforms. The new Focus and Fiesta are due out in the 2017 Time frame, with the Fusion to follow in 2019. By the time the fiesta Bows it will be 10 years old, the Focus 7 years old and the fusion 6 years old, Timing of These Debuts suggests that Ford may be Consolidating These Architectures. Let me make this blanket ( and controversial ) assumption that Ford will consolidate all unibody platforms (excluding Transit) into Two Architectures One Transverse the other longitudinal. All Cars and CUVs from A-E that use transversely mounted Engines will be based on One Architecture this would include ( Fiesta, Focus, Fusion/mondeo Edge etc. ) Would be FWD and AWD capable. Manufacturing would be centered around mexico, with Engine and transmission plants in mexico, along with Fusion, Focus and Fiesta low margin car production sourced from mexico, and higher margin CUV production in US and Canada, assembled with parts from Mexico. All Cars and CUVs from C-E that use longitudinally mounted Engines will be based on One Architecture this would include (mustang, Lincoln products, Explorer) would be RWD/AWD maybe FWD. Manufacturing would be centered around US, with Engine and transmission plants in the US, along with higher margin CUV and premium production in US and Canada. Why? Ford has Consolidated for the most part C3 and CD4 platforms but there remain alot of areas where systems aren't be shared that could be shared to Reduce cost and increase flexibility.. The move to Modular Architectures are being used by VW and Toyota and soon by Nissan. Ford's announcement that is it moving All transverse engine car production to Mexico, and the challenges all automakers have with Compact car production in the US. Migration from Platform to modular to modular Kit Architectures. Ford by announcing massive investments in component plants in mexico, Will Allow Ford of Europe to To Reduce the number for Transmission plants from 5 to 3 and Engine plants From 5-4, Improving Profitability for FOE. Ford North America Ford would have 4-5 assembly plants for Transverse architectures, (HAP, CUAP, LAP, OAC, and MAP?) and Two Longitudinal Architecture Plants (CAP and FRAP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Friend of mine was shopping used cars. He was looking at a 2012 Focus. Saw reviews of the transmission online. Mentioned them to me, and what could I say? That is unquestionably the worst transmission Ford has put in a product in decades. I don't think they've had a worse transmission since their first FWD automatic. Yeah, it sucks. Was planning a '12-'13 Focus for my daughter when she starts driving in 4 years, but that tranny may drop it from the list. May have to bump it for a few year older Fusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I have been thinking about the investments Ford is making and not making in latest Agreement and how it fits in with the rumored platforms. The new Focus and Fiesta are due out in the 2017 Time frame, with the Fusion to follow in 2019. By the time the fiesta Bows it will be 10 years old, the Focus 7 years old and the fusion 6 years old, Timing of These Debuts suggests that Ford may be Consolidating These Architectures. Let me make this blanket ( and controversial ) assumption that Ford will consolidate all unibody platforms (excluding Transit) into Two Architectures One Transverse the other longitudinal. All Cars and CUVs from A-E that use transversely mounted Engines will be based on One Architecture this would include ( Fiesta, Focus, Fusion/mondeo Edge etc. ) Would be FWD and AWD capable. Manufacturing would be centered around mexico, with Engine and transmission plants in mexico, along with Fusion, Focus and Fiesta low margin car production sourced from mexico, and higher margin CUV production in US and Canada, assembled with parts from Mexico. All Cars and CUVs from C-E that use longitudinally mounted Engines will be based on One Architecture this would include (mustang, Lincoln products, Explorer) would be RWD/AWD maybe FWD. Manufacturing would be centered around US, with Engine and transmission plants in the US, along with higher margin CUV and premium production in US and Canada. Why? Ford has Consolidated for the most part C3 and CD4 platforms but there remain alot of areas where systems aren't be shared that could be shared to Reduce cost and increase flexibility.. The move to Modular Architectures are being used by VW and Toyota and soon by Nissan. Ford's announcement that is it moving All transverse engine car production to Mexico, and the challenges all automakers have with Compact car production in the US. I don't think your thoughts are that far of a stretch. Hasn't there already been talk/rumors of them going to a sort of modular architecture and merging (at least) all the C/CD products on one scale-able platform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Aren't C and CD4 pretty close now? That's one thing that bugs me about going from the Fusion to the Escape and Focus is that the controls and features are all different. Would be nice if they were common, although some things like the dual myFord screens may not be possible on C sized vehicles due to the width of the gauge cluster. Sounds like the 2017 Escape will add most of the missing Fusion/Edge features. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Well, Focus isn't doing as badly as the Dodge Dart, and Fiat 500! Gas prices will go back up, but who knows when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Yeah, it sucks. Was planning a '12-'13 Focus for my daughter when she starts driving in 4 years, but that tranny may drop it from the list. May have to bump it for a few year older Fusion. Get an '11 or a manual. Bulletproof. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Get an '11 or a manual. Bulletproof. I'm thinking I probably do need to teach each of my kids to drive a manual, but I'm just not sure that is something I want to undertake. I tried to teach their mother once... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It's not easy to find something for them to learn on nowadays. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stentgraft95 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I'm thinking I probably do need to teach each of my kids to drive a manual, but I'm just not sure that is something I want to undertake. I tried to teach their mother once... I can relate, my wife has been after me to teach her to drive a manual so she can pilot the GT500. I've put her off 8.5 years but feel my luck may be running out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Embarrassing showing from Focus, with a 24% drop from last years less-than-spectacular number. Sure, gas is cheap, but 11k units is pathetic. Still better than the Dodge Dart at 6190... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Yeah, it sucks. Was planning a '12-'13 Focus for my daughter when she starts driving in 4 years, but that tranny may drop it from the list. May have to bump it for a few year older Fusion. Oh just teach her to drive a stick! That 5 speed is bulletproof. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Get an '11 or a manual. Bulletproof. Yeah, that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I'm thinking I probably do need to teach each of my kids to drive a manual, but I'm just not sure that is something I want to undertake. I tried to teach their mother once... Kids are much easier to teach than adults though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It's not easy to find something for them to learn on nowadays. meh, like I've said here before, I learned with my 08 focus. Same transmission as the 12-present model. Damn near same engine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 "Embarrassing showing from Focus, [down] 24%" Cruze is down 30%, Dart is a flop, so cross town rivals are not so hot. When someone gets the "For a few dollars more, we can put you in an Escape", what do you think happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It's not easy to find something for them to learn on nowadays. Wife already knows how, but it's like to teach my three daughters. I just don't want to do it with my '09. 168k miles with original clutch and I'd like it to last another year and a half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Wife already knows how, but it's like to teach my three daughters. I just don't want to do it with my '09. 168k miles with original clutch and I'd like it to last another year and a half. Wow I'm not the only one! Trust me, you can get another 10k out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 "Embarrassing showing from Focus, [down] 24%" Cruze is down 30%, Dart is a flop, so cross town rivals are not so hot. When someone gets the "For a few dollars more, we can put you in an Escape", what do you think happens? The same thing has been happening with the fusion for 2 years. I hear radio ads all the time for leases on both the Focus and Fusion for the same monthly payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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