Kev-Mo Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Friend of mine was shopping used cars. He was looking at a 2012 Focus. Saw reviews of the transmission online. Mentioned them to me, and what could I say? That is unquestionably the worst transmission Ford has put in a product in decades. I don't think they've had a worse transmission since their first FWD automatic. Too bad 'cause the brand spanking new Focus rental I had this past summer was the nicest and most fun small car I have ever driven. Folks are scared away by reliability reports. Are they really that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Too bad 'cause the brand spanking new Focus rental I had this past summer was the nicest and most fun small car I have ever driven. Folks are scared away by reliability reports. Are they really that bad? brand new they're fine. They start going haywire after some miles get put on it. I've personally read about one that started having issues after only 5,000 miles. That is totally unacceptable for a car that's only (presumably) a few months old by that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) How many buyers are getting Escapes instead? How has the C car market been the past year and half with sales? Gas is "cheap" and older buyers are buying more C class SUVs (the new Crown Vic for the 55+ retirement set) and people in their 20s don't seem like the can even afford a new car these days...which is one of the primary markets for smaller vehicles. I would guess very little crossover between Escape and Focus buyers. Escape is attracting Fusion buyers if anything - it's been fairly well established that when people trade in sedans for SUVs, they tend to trade down a size class. This is reflective in how ALL car companies price their SUVs relative to sedans. Escape should be leasing out at similar monthly payment as Fusion not Focus so probably not a lot of people are cross shopping Escape and Focus. Focus buyers would be interested in subcompact CUV but Ford doesn't sell any. "Embarrassing showing from Focus, [down] 24%" Cruze is down 30%, Dart is a flop, so cross town rivals are not so hot. When someone gets the "For a few dollars more, we can put you in an Escape", what do you think happens? I showed the YTD compact car sales data for the entire market in October (or was it September?) sales thread. Pretty much everyone else from Honda to Mazda sales are up - Focus is the anomaly for sure. Cruze is also down but there is a good reason... fleet dumping and production are down in anticipation switch over to two different models in 2016. Edited December 2, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Too bad 'cause the brand spanking new Focus rental I had this past summer was the nicest and most fun small car I have ever driven. Folks are scared away by reliability reports. Are they really that bad? My ’012 Focus now has 59,000 miles on it and has been a very reliable vehicle. I do have the troublesome DCT but, so far, have no major issues with it. Clutch engagement, at times, is rough, but most of the time it shifts quite smoothly. Note that we live in a rural area and 95% of our driving is at highway speeds (once we get into 6th gear, it says there for long periods). But nephew’s ‘012 Focus literally died on the highway a few weeks back. He drives his car on the job and had the clutch/seals replaced at about 70,000 miles (extended warranty). The newer clutch wore out after about 40,000 miles. Since it was off warranty, Ford wouldn’t cover the replacement cost. He sold it on the spot and bought a new Escape. I do agree with the comment about the Focus being fun-to-drive. The driving dynamics are superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Let me make this blanket ( and controversial ) assumption that Ford will consolidate all unibody platforms (excluding Transit) into Two Architectures One Transverse the other longitudinal. All Cars and CUVs from A-E that use transversely mounted Engines will be based on One Architecture this would include ( Fiesta, Focus, Fusion/mondeo Edge etc. ) Would be FWD and AWD capable. Manufacturing would be centered around mexico, with Engine and transmission plants in mexico, along with Fusion, Focus and Fiesta low margin car production sourced from mexico, and higher margin CUV production in US and Canada, assembled with parts from Mexico. All Cars and CUVs from C-E that use longitudinally mounted Engines will be based on One Architecture this would include (mustang, Lincoln products, Explorer) would be RWD/AWD maybe FWD. Manufacturing would be centered around US, with Engine and transmission plants in the US, along with higher margin CUV and premium production in US and Canada. I don't think it will be quite as tidy as all this, but I do think you're on to something with more commonality between B, C & CD vehicles. Edited December 2, 2015 by RichardJensen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Can't Ford put the Fusion tranny in the Focus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 They already use it in the Escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Can't Ford put the Fusion tranny in the Focus? They might not have the capacity at the plant that makes the transmissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Can't Ford put the Fusion tranny in the Focus? They already do. The 1.0Ecoboost and 1.5Ecoboost Focus sold elsewhere uses 6F. Which makes Ford's decision to not offer those 2 drivetrain combo in the US all the more puzzling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Wow I'm not the only one! Trust me, you can get another 10k out of it. I drove 27k miles last year. 10k might get me to spring. 200k miles or bust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'm thinking I probably do need to teach each of my kids to drive a manual, but I'm just not sure that is something I want to undertake. I tried to teach their mother once... IMO I think learning to drive a stick is best thing for a new driver...prevents them from becoming a two foot driver. When I learned to drive, my dad took me out in my Mom's 89 Taurus wagon once or twice, then we jumped to his car, which was my first car, a 86 Escort GT with a 5 speed. I drove nothing but sticks till I got my SHO almost 2 years ago. I can't say I miss it that much (autos are so well done these days) but taking my Mustang GT out for a spin with its 5 speed is still a very enjoyable experience...which makes me want to keep a stick equipped car around..maybe something with GT and three numbers after it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 IMO I think learning to drive a stick is best thing for a new driver...prevents them from becoming a two foot driver. When I learned to drive, my dad took me out in my Mom's 89 Taurus wagon once or twice, then we jumped to his car, which was my first car, a 86 Escort GT with a 5 speed. I drove nothing but sticks till I got my SHO almost 2 years ago. I can't say I miss it that much (autos are so well done these days) but taking my Mustang GT out for a spin with its 5 speed is still a very enjoyable experience...which makes me want to keep a stick equipped car around..maybe something with GT and three numbers after it I just wonder if driving a stick is just one other thing to worry about and too much for a new driver. They really need to focus as much attention on the road as possible, and I just don't know if that extra distraction would be too much. I agree that knowing how to drive a stick may make you a better driver in the long run, but is it too much for someone just starting out? Our daughter already gets the shifting part as she drives around our ATV, it's just a matter of learning the engagement of the clutch. I haven't had a stick in close to 20 years. I do miss it, but not when I'm in traffic. I would definitely love to add one of those 'GT with 3 numbers after it' sticks to the stable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probowler Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Well considering how everybody used to learn to drive on a stick... I can't really see the problem unless our society as a whole has become retardedly incompetent... Well on second thought.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Depending on where you live, the amount of traffic you have to deal with may be significantly higher than 20 or 30 years ago. So it's not that they can't learn how to do both (operate the vehicle and operate the transmission) at the same time. It's the degree with which they're going to be distracted and that could be an issue in a high traffic area with lots of other drivers to contend with. I've decided that I will have a mustang, a porsche coupe and a F series pickup when I retire and at least one of the cars will be a stick and one will be a ragtop (not mutually exclusive). Maybe I can find a nice used GT350 in a few years and get a 2013 Boxster S manual to go with it. But the wife loves 911s so I could get an older PDK 911 (Guards Red) coupe and a GT convertible mustang manual. Then I have to decide whether to get a newer F150 or a 77 F100 Ranger XLT. Decisions, decisions.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) I just wonder if driving a stick is just one other thing to worry about and too much for a new driver. They really need to focus as much attention on the road as possible, and I just don't know if that extra distraction would be too much. I agree that knowing how to drive a stick may make you a better driver in the long run, but is it too much for someone just starting out? Our daughter already gets the shifting part as she drives around our ATV, it's just a matter of learning the engagement of the clutch. My sister and I both learned how to drive sticks when we first started. We also lived in a very densely populated area with LOTS of traffic. If done correctly, I'll also assume that using a cell phone would be curtailed due to added interactivity with operating the car. I know when I drive my Mustang, I hate using my cell phone because it doesn't have handsfree/Sync etc. Edited December 3, 2015 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 My sister and I both learned how to drive sticks when we first started. We also lived in a very densely populated area with LOTS of traffic. If done correctly, I'll also assume that using a cell phone would be curtailed due to added interactivity with operating the car. I know when I drive my Mustang, I hate using my cell phone because it doesn't have handsfree/Sync etc. We don't have a lot of traffic here (rural area), so traffic shouldn't be an issue. However, pulling out of our driveway is a spot where stalling a stick could get you smashed. My parents driveway is the same way, as are a lot of others in this area. Honestly, that is probably my biggest concern. That's a good point on decreasing cell phone use. I hate talking on the phone while driving unless it is hands-free as well. There will be strict guidelines against cell phone use while driving. I can't ensure they follow them, but I can ensure the punishments for being caught are severe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzach Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Well considering how everybody used to learn to drive on a stick... I can't really see the problem unless our society as a whole has become retardedly incompetent... Well on second thought.... Either that or on something (legal or illegal). We taught my son on my wife's car with an auto and started him out with my stick car in the empty parking lot of the elementary school. He had it down after two lessons and then hit the road in it. I am a huge believer that everyone should know how to drive a stick but everyone has a different skill set. Yes everyone used to learn on a stick but today not only is there more traffic in most areas but people are more impatient and way less courteous or forgiving to other drivers. Also I think it is easier to teach a new driver than some one who has been driving an auto for years already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Well considering how everybody used to learn to drive on a stick... Yes. Back when kids were still getting polio. Kids also used to learn how to drive on a horse. Nothing against you, personally (if I wanted to make it personal, I'd talk about your Camaro ), but I don't like it when people pick these arbitrary 'back when...' things, and ignore the context--or that the things that were common then were uncommon a generation or two before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I still firmly believe that if more people drove manuals, there would be less traffic congestion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Traffic fatalies were way up in the "good old days". When it was "bad luck" to even talk about car safety and seat belts. Can dream all day, but reality usually wins. And I firmly believe if there were fewer trucks making all these deliveries of online buys, there'd be less traffic. But, there is a limit, and even 12 lanes can't fix congestion. At a certain point, better off taking bus/subway. Edited December 3, 2015 by 630land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I still firmly believe that if more people drove manuals, there would be less traffic congestion OK, I don't get that one. And I firmly believe if there were fewer trucks making all these deliveries of online buys, there'd be less traffic. That seems counter-intuitive. I buy a lot of stuff online. If I didn't buy it online, I would have to drive to the store, along with the 100 other people that have packages on that truck. So that one truck keeps 100 people off the road (not really 100, but you get the gist). Isn't that kinda like the packages taking the bus instead of the each one riding home in a car? At a certain point, better off taking bus/subway. Point me to the nearest bus/subway please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 OK, I don't get that one. Me, either. How the heck does the transmission affect congestion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I still firmly believe that if more people drove manuals, there would be less traffic congestion If more people drove manuals, there would simply be more manual-equipped cars on the road. Not fewer cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Me, either. How the heck does the transmission affect congestion? less dumbasses stopping on the freeways and gawking at every goddamn thing on the road. perhaps congestion was the wrong word. less pointless stopping on the freeways. Edited December 3, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 So you're equating manual transmissions with less easily distracted drivers? Still not buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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