akirby Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) Rebadged Isuzus that were awful to drive The Chevrolet Colorado and its twin, the GMC Canyon were jointly designed by GM's North American operations, GM's Brazil operations, and Isuzu. Isuzu, which participated in the design process, began selling its own version worldwide in 2002.[2] In late 2005, Isuzu offered a version in North America called the Isuzu i-Series. This North American model Isuzu shared North American powertrains, styling, and equipment with the Colorado/Canyon twins and differed from Isuzu's worldwide offering. Edited February 14, 2016 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) So different powertrain in ROW makes it a different truck? Edited February 14, 2016 by J-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Underpowered, poor fuel efficiency, uncompetitive. Rebadged Isuzus that were awful to drive (we had a few in our fleet). Nonetheless, they existed, which answers aneekr's assertion regarding new or updated small/midsize trucks. That the segment was shrinking then was not in doubt then. The growth of the segment now does not prove that it would have grown then, as the past is not the present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) The GMT 355 platform was actually a joint-venture with Isuzu, though most of the design was done by Isuzu. Part of the agreement was that GM had to sell it first in the U.S., to be sold legally as an Isuzu. Despite its close numbering to the GMT 360 series, the two programs share nothing. GMT 355 Applications: Chevrolet Colorado (Most markets until 2013 model year; North America until 2014)GMC CanyonHolden RodeoIsuzu D-Max (Isuzu i-Series)Hummer H3 Edited February 14, 2016 by J-150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 It was a joint design built in North America with North American parts. They did not take an Isuzu pickup and rebadge it which is what you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 It was a joint design built in North America with North American parts. They did not take an Isuzu pickup and rebadge it which is what you said. Sorry Bud. You're wrong and just can't admit it. But go ahead. Get the last word in like you always do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Sorry Bud. You're wrong and just can't admit it. But go ahead. Get the last word in like you always do. Apparently your definition of a rebadged Isuzu differs from mine. Fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 It was a joint design built in North America with North American parts. They did not take an Isuzu pickup and rebadge it which is what you said. I can say from a parts perspective it's not 100% North American. It's an annoying hodge podge of N.A. and Asian parts. I hate looking up parts on these things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 You're forgetting the 2005 Colorado/Canyon. Those were new models that replaced the S-10 & Sonoma. They didn't sell. Times change. There was little to no market for those trucks ten years ago. There is now. The cynical/grouchy part of me says that since these are 'old man' trucks, their increase in popularity is proportional to the age of baby boomers. I can't think of one person who has bought a new Colorado/Canyon at our dealership that isn't drawing Social Security. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) Apparently your definition of a rebadged Isuzu differs from mine. Fine.And there it is. Getting in the last word again. Why not just admit you're wrong instead of playing word and definition games? The last gen Colorado and Canyon were Isuzus. Period. Sure GM used different body panels and North American engines but that doesn't change the fact that Isuzu designed the truck then proceeded to sell it globally as a D Max. If you still want to sit on this argument, you better redefine your position on the Dart being a Dodge vs a Fiat. Edited February 14, 2016 by J-150 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 And there it is. Getting in the last word again. Why not just admit you're wrong instead of playing word and definition games? The last gen Colorado and Canyon were Isuzus. Period. Sure GM used different body panels and North American engines but that doesn't change the fact that Isuzu designed the truck then proceeded to sell it globally as a D Max. If you still want to sit on this argument, you better redefine your position on the Dart being a Dodge vs a Fiat. Isuzu did most of the leg work on the frame and underpinnings. While GM was responsible for top hat / safety, and power trains. Honestly it was a fairly even development. At best 60/40 in favor of Isuzu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Isuzu did most of the leg work on the frame and underpinnings. While GM was responsible for top hat / safety, and power trains. Honestly it was a fairly even development. At best 60/40 in favor of Isuzu I can guarantee the ignition cylinder/ key is Isuzu. Uses the same style key as certain Toyotas. GM doesn't use that style key in any other vehicle. Like I said above, they're a mishmash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banker55 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Here's a much easier to read line graph of the GM Trucks sales that I've been keeping track of... GM loves to dump inventory of the Silverado and Sierra in December it seems. A more interesting point in regards to this discussion though.....look at the overall decline for the Silverado and Sierra since August of 2015.... The Colorado and Canyon have actually stayed very consistent since their ramp up....even though I've been keeping track of the numbers, I didn't even realize how relatively consistent they seem to be until throwing the numbers in this type of chart. GM production figures indicate a problem of some kind. Dec 2014 vs Dec 2015 Chev Col 5942 to 5508 GMC 2205 to 2270 Jan 2015 vs Jan 2016 Chev 5904 to 3959 GMC 2561 to 1325 Those are poor numbers at 18 months for a truck that is sold out.....pathetic is a more apt description. Compare Toyota production up 17000 to 18000 F series January 84917 production excluding chassis build. Express and Savanah sales are down big for January???? . numbers from Auto News. Maybe mid-size trucks is a good market to stay away from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 I don't think it's so much an indication of a problem, but more of a "normalization" of production vs. inventory. If the downward trend continues until say July or August, then I would worry about it. P.S. Express and Savannah is way down because they're 90% out the door and being discontinued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Isuzu did most of the leg work on the frame and underpinnings. While GM was responsible for top hat / safety, and power trains. Honestly it was a fairly even development. At best 60/40 in favor of Isuzu Exactly... It was not unlike Ford C1 platform - Mazda did a lot of work on it, but so did Ford and Volvo. And each one went on to design different tophat with different drivetrain packages. To say Colorado was an Isuzu rebadge is being willfully ignorant - the previous gen US spec Colorado vs Isuzu D-Max was like C1 Focus vs Mazda3 - related but different vehicles. But Isuzu i-series that was sold in the US was in fact a Canyon rebadge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 That's where I was going. If mid size demand is that high, the vans may need to move elsewhere. GM AFAIK has agreed (much like Ford's SD) to have AM general assemble the Cutaway version of the savanna and express. they will ship the cabs to am general and assemble them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 GM AFAIK has agreed (much like Ford's SD) to have AM general assemble the Cutaway version of the savanna and express. they will ship the cabs to am general and assemble them there. Ford is having AM General build Super Duties?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Ford is having AM General build Super Duties?? I think he meant having cutaways assembled apart from the main assembly line. In this case, the heavy duty E series cutaway being assembled in Ohio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Ford is having AM General build Super Duties?? no I think he meant having cutaways assembled apart from the main assembly line. In this case, the heavy duty E series cutaway being assembled in Ohio. yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 no . Re-read your post.....apparently I have to write <sarcasm> in brackets.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 It's interesting to see the different strategies being employed by Ford and GM to cover various segments, how GM chose Mid Sized trucks over another 1500 Express, how Ford chose Transit over Ranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLPRacing Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I can't think of one person who has bought a new Colorado/Canyon at our dealership that isn't drawing Social Security. I haven't seen anyone that looks under 65 driving one yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Oh, well there's confirmation then. I'm just going to assume that the resurgence of midsize trucks is due to retiring baby boomers and insist on that from now on. </sarcasm> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Oh, well there's confirmation then. I'm just going to assume that the resurgence of midsize trucks is due to retiring baby boomers and insist on that from now on. </sarcasm> You are correct in that it is not definitive market research. That said, Boomers have driven a lot of the change we've seen in automotive for the past 50 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 I haven't seen anyone that looks under 65 driving one yet. I have to say the opposite. Plus a fair amount in commercial use. Surprisingly one big chain auto parts outlet near me has a couple of them. Can't understand why an operation like that would not go for something like a TC or its FWD econobox competitors. Its not like these chain autoparts stores are delivering heavy truck parts that need a forklift to load unload-its all "featherfreight". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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