fuzzymoomoo Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Wait six months for any new products. Period. Let the bugs be worked out first. Less headache down the road. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpvbs Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 So did we decide if the 3.5EB will remain at 365hp or not? Several articles say it will remain unchanged, but I don't see anything in the official Ford sources. Ford just says increase in torque to 450ft/lbs. Not that it really needs more, but for marketing purposes it wouldn't hurt to bump the hp numbers a bit. Similarly, for the '17 Super Duty, Ford is only saying increased torque will be available in the 6.2/6.8 and Powerstroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 So did we decide if the 3.5EB will remain at 365hp or not? Several articles say it will remain unchanged, but I don't see anything in the official Ford sources. Ford just says increase in torque to 450ft/lbs. Not that it really needs more, but for marketing purposes it wouldn't hurt to bump the hp numbers a bit. Similarly, for the '17 Super Duty, Ford is only saying increased torque will be available in the 6.2/6.8 and Powerstroke. I've seen two videos where Ford specifically states that the new 3.5L will remain at 365 HP. I still find it hard to believe, but if it does, it will likely only be that way for a year or two before it gets bumped up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Ford as of late seems to downplay ratings early on, only to announce better ones closer to/at launch of products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 That doesn't change my point. My point is not all transmissions have issues when first put into production. You basically stated all 6F trans were problematic during launch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Wait six months for any new products. Period. Let the bugs be worked out first. Less headache down the road. I agree. Let the guys and girls putting them together get the kinks worked out. You would know better than I, but I think assembly line bugs are the most common, then some engineering changes are next. Is that accurate? Fit and finish seem better after a few months of production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 The biggest problem I recall with early 6F35 was for people flat towing it (yes, it was approved to flat towing). The transmission fluid level would increase as it was towed (heating with no flow through the cooler) high enough for the rotating parts to whip it into a foam. The foam would puke out the filler tube and that was the end of the transmission ! Some people got more than 1 new transmission. I know the short term fix was to lower the fluid level while being towed and then add it back when driving. What a pain ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 You basically stated all 6F trans were problematic during launch. I said no such thing. I said the 6F had problems. I didn't say all of them or which versions. Let's also not forget the DCT issues in Focus and Fiesta. Ford does not have a great track record with brand new transmissions. I hope this one is different, but I wouldn't bet my money on it for the first year or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I said no such thing. I said the 6F had problems. I didn't say all of them or which versions. Let's also not forget the DCT issues in Focus and Fiesta. Ford does not have a great track record with brand new transmissions. I hope this one is different, but I wouldn't bet my money on it for the first year or so. Lumping all of them together is the same thing as saying all Fords have problems, but I didn't say which ones or versions. The DSP6 is an entirely different animal. The DSP6 is one transmission and all DSP6 have design/characteristic issues. It truly does not matter. However you want to classify makes no difference to me. I am just stating my point. Regardless saying the 6F is problematic is like saying all modular engines are problematic because of the 5.4 3v phaser issue. You are correct, transmissions from Ford, some are pretty good on launch and some have been ridiculously troublesome. Remember the aisin TF-80 in the v6 fusion 2006 had issues and was not repairable and came from Japan. Same with the Mazda FNR5 was the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 The biggest problem I recall with early 6F35 was for people flat towing it (yes, it was approved to flat towing). The transmission fluid level would increase as it was towed (heating with no flow through the cooler) high enough for the rotating parts to whip it into a foam. The foam would puke out the filler tube and that was the end of the transmission ! Some people got more than 1 new transmission. I know the short term fix was to lower the fluid level while being towed and then add it back when driving. What a pain ! That was a big issue. Ford changed their stance and said it was not flat tow capable. Then they added a cooling pump kit at the customers expense. The 6f35 has/had axle bushing issues, center support issues, case venting issues. However, my parents had a 09 escape that never had the trans out even at 200,000 miles. I was surprised. I kept waiting on it to crap out being an early build. I did keep it updated for shift flare and fluid changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I agree. Let the guys and girls putting them together get the kinks worked out. You would know better than I, but I think assembly line bugs are the most common, then some engineering changes are next. Is that accurate? Fit and finish seem better after a few months of production. bingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Lumping all of them together is the same thing as saying all Fords have problems, but I didn't say which ones or versions. The DSP6 is an entirely different animal. The DSP6 is one transmission and all DSP6 have design/characteristic issues. It truly does not matter. However you want to classify makes no difference to me. I am just stating my point. Regardless saying the 6F is problematic is like saying all modular engines are problematic because of the 5.4 3v phaser issue. You are correct, transmissions from Ford, some are pretty good on launch and some have been ridiculously troublesome. Remember the aisin TF-80 in the v6 fusion 2006 had issues and was not repairable and came from Japan. Same with the Mazda FNR5 was the same way. I think you're still missing the point. It has nothing to do with the actual transmissions or which versions did or did not have problems. 6F was a brand new transmission. Some of them had issues. Powershift DCT in Focus and Fiesta was a brand new application. A lot had issues. The 10 speed is a brand new transmission in a brand new application. It is not unreasonable to expect there to be problems with the early versions based on Ford's recent track record. Hopefully they're minor and can be easily fixed or maybe they get lucky and there aren't any issues. But if you ask me you're taking a risk buying one in the first year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 There was a piece in the UAW contract about a new displacement for the Super Duty. I've heard 5.8L, but I'm with you thinking there will also be a larger displacement to ditch the old 6.8L V10. I think that the 6.8 V10 returning to larger Super Duty was confirmed last year.Like others I was excited at the thought of a 5.8V8 but now wonder if that was just a red herring......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 even with an 8AT, the Silverado 6.2 is stuck at 21 mpg official, so the newF150 EB 3.5 & 10AT should open up a healthy gap. Where the 6.2 sales will need to be managed / restricted, Ford Will have no such impediment with the EB 3.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I think that the 6.8 V10 returning to larger Super Duty was confirmed last year. Like others I was excited at the thought of a 5.8V8 but now wonder if that was just a red herring......... I just don't think the new engine is ready yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I think you're still missing the point. It has nothing to do with the actual transmissions or which versions did or did not have problems. 6F was a brand new transmission. Some of them had issues. Powershift DCT in Focus and Fiesta was a brand new application. A lot had issues. The 10 speed is a brand new transmission in a brand new application. It is not unreasonable to expect there to be problems with the early versions based on Ford's recent track record. Hopefully they're minor and can be easily fixed or maybe they get lucky and there aren't any issues. But if you ask me you're taking a risk buying one in the first year. It's my understanding the 10 speed is a joint venture with GM. The last joint transmission venture was the 6F50/55 and it went well. So hopefully this one will mirror that one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It's my understanding the 10 speed is a joint venture with GM. The last joint transmission venture was the 6F50/55 and it went well. So hopefully this one will mirror that one. Yes it is, and in the Camaro (ZL1?), GM has reported that its version rips off shifts faster than a Porsche DCT. Sounds like a very impressive tranny, I just hope the reliability is there, which I don't doubt. There have been few major issues with the last several iterations of the RWD trannies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 It's my understanding the 10 speed is a joint venture with GM. The last joint transmission venture was the 6F50/55 and it went well. So hopefully this one will mirror that one. So was the 6F35. Just saying..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 So was the 6F35. Just saying..... I didn't realize that. The 6F50 is built so much better and beefier than the 6F35. I know different power ratings but damn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 And now there's a 6F15..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I thought they were the same tranny just with different internals to handle more torque. Apparently they're different but both came out of the Ford/GM joint venture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I thought they were the same tranny just with different internals to handle more torque. Apparently they're different but both came out of the Ford/GM joint venture. A lot of the torque loading is governed by how many clutches you have in the packs but also things laike shafts and planet carriers are made lighter /heavier...all very similar designs though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 So if the 6F35 was such a problem child, what changed on it? Was a design/part issue or what? I've had good luck with the 6F50 and 6F35 in my SHO and my wife's Escape with nearly 150K miles on it...hope I didn't jinx myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 So if the 6F35 was such a problem child, what changed on it? Was a design/part issue or what? I've had good luck with the 6F50 and 6F35 in my SHO and my wife's Escape with nearly 150K miles on it...hope I didn't jinx myself The center support inside the 6f35 was an issue plus some issues where because of assembly with snap rings that would disengage. The left axle bushing would allow too much flop eating up tulip joint of CV axle and case bushing and allow fluid to leak causing slippage. Plus some venting issues. Case has been changed and so has center support. It wasn't one thing it was several when it came out in 09MY. In 09 the huge issue was parts availability. Cars were down for months. It was terrible for the customers. The 6F50 is a different story. It had some speed sensor and range sensor issues, but not requiring it to be pulled out. In our area we went into 6F50 very rarely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I don't think they've completely fixed all the problems. 2-3 shift flare is the most common complaint. Ford changed the software which seemed to help but not entirely eliminate it. I'm sure they made some hardware changes along the way. Some have had to be replaced or have the valve bodies replaced IIRC. It's not a huge percentage but the problems are quite common on early Fusions and Escapes. A lot of people bought Fusion Sports specifically to get the Aisin tranny and avoid the 6F35. Early on it was pretty bad. The one in my 2013 Fusion is fine. I'm pretty sure the GM version also had its share of similar problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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