Ford's Future Models and Platforms

[silvrsvt]

One thing I noticed that I thought was interesting...the next gen Focus might have LWB variant in China...that might make a nice Entry level Lincoln to slot under the MKZ with the MKC.

[rmc523]

One thing I noticed that I thought was interesting...the next gen Focus might have LWB variant in China...that might make a nice Entry level Lincoln to slot under the MKZ with the MKC.

 

That's an interesting thought. That's also been an issue with the MKC - the back seat is small...it could use a few more inches back there for legroom. That was one of the few complaints I had with it when I did the Date Night a while back.

[blazerdude20]

Did you read the article?

Yes and they only lightly touched on the subject. Besides is this article gospel? They are putting forward a guess based on what they've heard, not that dissimilar to what we've been doing here.

[bzcat]

One thing I noticed that I thought was interesting...the next gen Focus might have LWB variant in China...that might make a nice Entry level Lincoln to slot under the MKZ with the MKC.

 

That's clearly mistaken in the Just Auto article. They are saying Escort is LWB Focus but in fact, Escort is budget Focus.

 

There is no doubt Focus will get bigger to better compete with Civic, Lamando, Sagitar, Lannia, and Verano etc. but I don't see Ford selling a LWB and SWB Focus sedan in China. The C-segment in China is definitely family car oriented so there is no obsessive LWB VIP demand like there are on larger cars. Chinese buyers just want a bigger car all around.

 

My prediction is Ford will end up selling 3 different C-segment car in China like everyone else. Once the new Focus comes out, the current Focus will become donor for the new Escort. And the current Escort platform (C1 with twist beam) will live on as something even cheaper.

 

Ford

C+ premium - Focus (latest generation tech, powertrain, and design)

C middle tier - Escort (previous generation platform with value engineering e.g. no more IRS and replace with twist beam etc)

C- budget - TBD (2 generations old platform)

 

Buick

C+ premium - Verano (current gen D2xx Delta 3)

C middle tier - Excelle GT (previous gen Delta 2)

C- budget - Excelle (Daewoo Lacetti)

 

Chevy

C+ premium - Cruze XL (current gen Cruze D2xx Delta 3)

C middle tier - "new" Cruze (previous gen Delta 2)

C- budget - Cruze Classic (previous gen Cruze)

 

SAIC VW

C+ premium - Lamando (MQB)

C middle tier - Lavida (Mk4 Jetta platform)

C- budget - Santana (PQ25)

 

FAW VW

C+ premium - Sagitar (Mk6 Jetta)

C middle tier - Bora (Mk4 Jetta platform)

C- budget - Jetta (PQ25)

 

Nissan

C+ premium - Lannia (CMF-C)

C middle tier - Sylphy (aka Sentra - Nissan V platform)

C- budget - Sylphy Classic (previous gen Sylphy)

Edited July 6, 2016 by bzcat

[igor]

The C3/ C5xx platform will be interesting to watch. The C1/C2 was a big deal with the whole "Mazda/Volvo/Ford COOP development" and it spanning EUCD and CD4. With the way C-cars evolved since C1 was released 12 years ago, and with Volvo and Mazda gone, I am interested to see what they cook up.

 

The Focus definitely needs longer wheelbase (106.3" seems to be the sweet spot, so let's get closer than today to that). Also fix the short stubby snout.

Having the focus come out in late 2018 is "right on schedule" -- I am not too worried.

 

I would be VERY surprised if Ford turned EcoSport into mini-Escape on the C3 platform, that platform will likely be WAY too expensive for what EcoSport is supposed to be, and way more expensive than what the competition (in EU/US and in developing markets) offers. Who offer a complex IRS C platform against competition built with twist-beam tech on simple, cheap B-car platforms?

I expect Ford will release the refreshed EcoSport in the US, then I expect the new Fiesta will have new platform, but not revolutionalrily so, maintaining downward compatibility with the likes of Fido, Ka, and Ka+. EcoSport will soldier on its 2016 refresh for ~3 years and then get replaced with a better global car.

 

More and more confirmation of the Model E range is good The fact that it's using the next C3 platform is also good. Nothing terribly news, but it's what makes sense, so I am happy to keep sing it confirmed over and over.

 

So this is all good. I am interested to see the CD6 piece ... Ford's split between the C3 and CD6 cars will be fascinating -- where will it occur? Will Aviator be Cd6? MKZ? If MKZ is CD6, will Fusion -- Fusion makes a lot of sense as a C3/CD5 car sharing tech with Focus .... SO.MANY.QUESTIONS!

[akirby]

You keep Ecosport for the lower price point and MOW. You make Focus and Escape slightly longer. Then you add a shorter C3 ute to bridge the gap.

[igor]

You keep Ecosport for the lower price point and MOW. You make Focus and Escape slightly longer. Then you add a shorter C3 ute to bridge the gap.

Despite the move to 106.3" wheelbase by most competitors, we see 0 movement to slotting more sizes of SUVs between What is HRV ad CRV, Mazda CX3 and CX5, Juke and Rogue ... and that is from brands (besides Nissan) that do not have Edge sitting atop their compact SUV. I just do not see it at the moment, but hey ... I am not being paid to make market research or product planning for the company .. so what do I know?

 

One thing I COULD see (In my imagination and dreams) is Ford taking on the XV/Crosstrek with a Focus Allroad.

[akirby]

bzcat had posted several examples of short and long C utilities. Maybe he can repost it.

[BORG]

The EcoSport is never coming to the US, but the EcoSport fits its global markets outside of the US and Europe extremely well and will likely continue as a budget sub-compact SUV. What will likely happen is that Ford is developing a new crossover to directly compete with the Chevy Trax, Honda HR-V, and Toyota C-HR which can replace B-Max and EcoSport in Europe and be sold alongside the EcoSport in many markets, especially China. The EcoSport is credited with Ford's lackluster Crossover performance in Europe and is a notable sales disappointment.

 

This is a very important segment to get right, especially if you are running as late as Ford, so launching a non-competitive product with very limited appeal would be unprofitable and could undermine their efforts to launch successfully into the segment. They have to get their manufacturing ducks in a row before they start messing with a low margin product like EcoSport late in its life for temporary US import. EcoSport would be a very poor seller anyway so the effort would be wasted.

 

Ford is running a little late on things, but their aging products are still solid and updated so it's not as bad as the years make it out to be. Once the end of the decades rolls in, Ford will have allot to do.

Edited July 6, 2016 by BORG

[fuzzymoomoo]

1 correction

 

EcoSport as it exists today is never coming to the U.S.

[BORG]

BTW, Ford's UAW contact stated that a 2nd vehicle would arrive at MAP "Beyond 2020", so Bronco is not coming before its primary vehicle in 2019...presumably the Ranger. And why would Ford bring out the current Everest/Bronco just prior to the next-gen Ranger upon which the successor would be based in only a year or two? If there is anything I've learned bout Ford, it's that they have a very disciplined economic strategy and haste for haste sake is not a Ford trait.

[rmc523]

Despite the move to 106.3" wheelbase by most competitors, we see 0 movement to slotting more sizes of SUVs between What is HRV ad CRV, Mazda CX3 and CX5, Juke and Rogue ... and that is from brands (besides Nissan) that do not have Edge sitting atop their compact SUV. I just do not see it at the moment, but hey ... I am not being paid to make market research or product planning for the company .. so what do I know?

 

One thing I COULD see (In my imagination and dreams) is Ford taking on the XV/Crosstrek with a Focus Allroad.

 

Isn't Nissan bringing that Quashqui thing here?

[igor]

 

Isn't Nissan bringing that Quashqui thing here?

nissan qashqai

 

If they are, this is first I've heard of it.

 

Again -- I may be completely wrong, but it seems to me that EcoSport is being readied for imminent release in the US, and moving the ES to C3 seems odd in my perspective. ... that is a guess .. a read of tea leaves ... many people know, some may say.

[akirby]

ES doesn't move to C3. C3 is too big and too expensive for MOW and ES is too small and too cheap for NA.

 

A slightly longer Escape makes the gap between it and ES too big.

[Biker16]

ES doesn't move to C3. C3 is too big and too expensive for MOW and ES is too small and too cheap for NA.

 

A slightly longer Escape makes the gap between it and ES too big.

Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it any more true.

 

the EcoSport competes on price not Size. it has to be cheaper than the escape to produce, a short wheel base Complex C-CUV is not Cheaper than a Long wheelbase complex C-CUV. there is a reason we have B- platform.

 

you are arguing for stand alone Product for North America only that may be only slightly cheaper to produce than the Escape that will sell less than 100,000 units per year eating up already low margins with product development costs spread over a few units. in what world does this make sense, espcially from this automaker?

Edited July 7, 2016 by Biker16

[Biker16]

how late are the focus and Fiesta in F150 terms.


The f-150 has consistently been redesigned every 5-6 years for the last 20 years.

1 First generation (1948–1952)
2 Second generation (1953–1956)
3 Third generation (1957–1960)
4 Fourth generation (1961–1966)
5 Fifth generation (1967–1972)
6 Sixth generation (1973–1979)
7 Seventh generation (1980–1986) 6
8 Eighth generation (1987–1991) 4
9 Ninth generation (1992–1997) 6
10 Tenth generation (1997–2003) 6
11 Eleventh generation (2004–2008) 5
12 Twelfth generation (2009–2014) 5
13 Thirteenth generation (2015–present) 5

to say that Ford has been on 7 year replacement cycle has only been true for every model except the F150.

[fordmantpw]

how late are the focus and Fiesta in F150 terms.

 

 

The f-150 has consistently been redesigned every 5-6 years for the last 20 years.

 

1 First generation (1948–1952)

2 Second generation (1953–1956)

3 Third generation (1957–1960)

4 Fourth generation (1961–1966)

5 Fifth generation (1967–1972)

6 Sixth generation (1973–1979)

7 Seventh generation (1980–1986) 6

8 Eighth generation (1987–1991) 4

9 Ninth generation (1992–1997) 6

10 Tenth generation (1997–2003) 6

11 Eleventh generation (2004–2008) 5

12 Twelfth generation (2009–2014) 5

13 Thirteenth generation (2015–present) 5

 

to say that Ford has been on 7 year replacement cycle has only been true for every model except the F150.

 

 

And Ford makes more profit on the F150 in one year than it has on the Fiesta since the Fiesta was first introduced. OK, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the idea. The truck market is a very competitive market, competing for huge profits. Ford HAS to keep it fresh to keep selling them and making cash that helps pay for investments in the Focus and Fiesta. Seriously, if you can't figure that out, then you really need some help.

[silvrsvt]

 

And Ford makes more profit on the F150 in one year than it has on the Fiesta since the Fiesta was first introduced. OK, maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the idea. The truck market is a very competitive market, competing for huge profits. Ford HAS to keep it fresh to keep selling them and making cash that helps pay for investments in the Focus and Fiesta. Seriously, if you can't figure that out, then you really need some help.

 

Not to mention that the difference between the 2004 and 2009 F-150 was just new sheetmetal and engines...more or less a MCE and not a completely new truck...the last gen truck lasted 10 years with a 5 year update....which is pretty much the standard for Ford cars getting MCE's.

[theoldwizard]

A couple of years ago Ford started installing stamping equipment at the old Wayne Assembly. Rumor was they were for the aluminum F250 and/or aluminum Expedition.

 

They also need a need some place to stamp panels for Ranger/Bronco.

 

Ford might simply choose to discontinue the Taurus as a model line in North America.

 

This leaves Explorer up in the air and Ford possibly with no Police Interceptors.

[akirby]

Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it any more true.

 

the EcoSport competes on price not Size. it has to be cheaper than the escape to produce, a short wheel base Complex C-CUV is not Cheaper than a Long wheelbase complex C-CUV. there is a reason we have B- platform.

 

you are arguing for stand alone Product for North America only that may be only slightly cheaper to produce than the Escape that will sell less than 100,000 units per year eating up already low margins with product development costs spread over a few units. in what world does this make sense, espcially from this automaker?

 

I didn't say stand alone production for NA - I said it could also be sold in Europe. I was also skeptical until bzcat posted this in a previous thread. There are dozens of "short C" products out there now from other mfrs.

 

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/60887-ford-plans-for-4-new-suv-nameplates-in-next-4-years-today-chicago-show/page-3&do=findComment&comment=969401

[akirby]

Ford prioritized a platform with an average ATP of over $42K and potential sales of almost 1M/yr ahead of 2 platforms with avg ATPs closer to $20K whose sales are currently falling due to gas prices?

 

Bravo Ford, Bravo!

[silvrsvt]

 

This leaves Explorer up in the air and Ford possibly with no Police Interceptors.

 

The Current Explorer isn't going anywhere till 2019 or so. Sales of the Taurus to the public might stop in the next 12-18 months, but they'll still build PI's and PIU's at Chicago.

 

There are three different things that could happen with the Taurus:

 

1. It gets killed off at the end of the 2017MY Production run for public sales and never returns to the lineup

 

2. It returns in a few years after a hiatus at Flat Rock to help supplement Continental production when the MCE happens on the Chinese Taurus

 

3. It gets replaced by a CD6 RWD Sedan and gets renamed Thunderbird.

[BORG]

 

The Current Explorer isn't going anywhere till 2019 or so. Sales of the Taurus to the public might stop in the next 12-18 months, but they'll still build PI's and PIU's at Chicago.

 

There are three different things that could happen with the Taurus:

 

1. It gets killed off at the end of the 2017MY Production run for public sales and never returns to the lineup

 

2. It returns in a few years after a hiatus at Flat Rock to help supplement Continental production when the MCE happens on the Chinese Taurus

 

3. It gets replaced by a CD6 RWD Sedan and gets renamed Thunderbird.

 

A far more reasonable #3 would be that Ford imports the Taurus from China, which now seems quite possible thanks to Buick.

 

However, at this stage I think it's clear that because they chose not to bring the new Taurus to the US alongside Continental production, that Ford has made a decision to phase it out from the US market. Along with the other D3 products (Flex, MKT), I imagine they will all be phased out by the time the next-gen Explorer goes into production around 2018.

 

Fusion has clearly been positioned as its replacement with a potent Sport model and luxury model. The next Fusion will need to grow in size anyway as the midsize market continues to get bigger and I'm pretty sure there is just no more room at the top in Ford's future outlook and they have no place to put a new model anyway (which is definitely not in the UAW contract btw).

Edited July 7, 2016 by BORG

[630land]

Full size cars are just not selling like they used to. For the price, buyers want a "truck" these days. Civilian Tauruses mostly go to fleets, anyway. If they decide to bring out a new big Ford, based on Continental, then call it Victoria, Galaxie, Fairlane, or LTD.

 

And Ford doesn't need to "rush" new compact cars just to please some Europhiles. Just glad to see new ones are coming and not "I dunno" like news about Bronco or Ranger.

Whine, complain, make endless posts, and hold your breath, but it won't change anything.

[Biker16]

 

Not to mention that the difference between the 2004 and 2009 F-150 was just new sheetmetal and engines...more or less a MCE and not a completely new truck...the last gen truck lasted 10 years with a 5 year update....which is pretty much the standard for Ford cars getting MCE's.

 

It wasn't an MCE, it included all-new sheet-metal, changes to the Suspension, all-new interior, new engines and. It was complete redesign.