jpd80 Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I still think the Aviator is still going to be a Explorer based RWD product. Too much overlap otherwise. But see, that's the big mystery in all of this...what exactly is Ford going to do with next gen T6 Ranger / SUV verses what it needs for next gen Explorer Aviator. Are we missing the obvious here.................. Last month, Ford built over 29,000 Explorers and over 6,000 Taurus at CAP... that's gotta be close to maxed out So does Ford really need to do another vehicle or just concentrate on maximizing Explorer and remaining Taurus sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 No mystery to me. Mid sized truck and 2 row SUVs versus 3 row premium SUVs/CUVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 No mystery to me. Mid sized truck and 2 row SUVs versus 3 row premium SUVs/CUVs. Agree- to quote from JPD80..............."Ford has seen an increase in interest for more "rugged Utilities" and intends pursuing those needs...so there's a great opportunity to have a rugged Ford Bronco and maybe an Aviator (Lincolnized Everest "Vignale") while having Ranger as the volume product." I don't know what JPD's source is but I believe that is probably true. People get tired of .."same ol". Plus if CAP is maxed out and Ford truly intends to keep MAP open they need some product that is going to generate good numbers. Continued success of Tacoma and the GM twins says Ford should be able to get a good piece of that pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 While the mid-sized market should grow, I don't think we'll see more then 100K or so mid-sized Rangers being sold in the US. I'd fully expect that if Ford offers a 2 and 4 door Bronco, the Bronco should out sell it with no problems. As for the Bronco/Everest/Possible Lincoln SUV...Lincoln has never been successful with catering to the "tough" market. People have no problems spending 65k+ on a Ford F-series if they want a "luxury" truck. I really don't see the need for a Lincoln Everest based product, when soft roaders like the MKX and a Lincoln RWD Explorer (Aviator) would cater to that market no problem. With the D4 Taurus all but going away in another 24 months or so, there is going to be plenty of room for a Lincoln Explorer there and the PIU to be built and keep the plant busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I still think Troller is the 3rd vehicle for MAP - it's already loosely based on T6 and it fits the criteria of being neither a Ford or Lincoln brand that one of the insiders hinted at last year. I agree that a Lincoln Everest doesn't seem to make that much sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I still think Troller is the 3rd vehicle for MAP - it's already loosely based on T6 and it fits the criteria of being neither a Ford or Lincoln brand that one of the insiders hinted at last year. The Troller would also make a good starting point for the Bronco styling wise..either in 2 or 4 doors. I wonder if thats what they are doing...Uniting Troller with the Bronco... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I hope the new Bronco bares some similarities to the Troller, as I agree it is a good starting point. Just make sure it can go topless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Troller is the open cockpit Jeep fighter while Bronco is a bit more refined with heritage styling. 2 and 4 door models of both. It would certainly be a new market for Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) While the mid-sized market should grow, I don't think we'll see more then 100K or so mid-sized Rangers being sold in the US. I'd fully expect that if Ford offers a 2 and 4 door Bronco, the Bronco should out sell it with no problems. Keep on mind that year to date, GM has seen a combined 100K sales of Colorado/Canyon in the US alone and then there's Canada and Mexico sales to consider.. So that figure for Ranger sales could well equate to around 160K or more for the region before we talk about companion Utility product sales. I'm beginning to think that Bronco may have a bigger global assignment than just satsfying a regional specific need for a rugged Utility - it could easily be sold across many more countries than just the North American region. As for the Bronco/Everest/Possible Lincoln SUV...Lincoln has never been successful with catering to the "tough" market. People have no problems spending 65k+ on a Ford F-series if they want a "luxury" truck. I really don't see the need for a Lincoln Everest based product, when soft roaders like the MKX and a Lincoln RWD Explorer (Aviator) would cater to that market no problem. With the greatest respect, You've not sat in an Everest, I have and I can tell you that the AUS$90K Titanium is not the truckster you think, it's every bit the equal of Landcruiser 120/ Lexus GX 460 and in that strain qualifies to my list of potential Lincolns - especially if we think China and Middle East. At this point, it's just a possibility... With the D4 Taurus all but going away in another 24 months or so, there is going to be plenty of room for a Lincoln Explorer there and the PIU to be built and keep the plant busy. That is a strong possibility, ahead of Everest Lincoln, I hope Ford follows through with Aviator. I suspect that many people are expecting CD6 to be way more than it actually is. Lincoln dealers have crying out for a decent 3-row SUV for years but has seen ever other vehicle filled in front of that need, an Aviator should have preceded both Continental and Navigator... but here we are thanks to Ford's own product cycle timing. Edited September 26, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) I still think Troller is the 3rd vehicle for MAP - it's already loosely based on T6 and it fits the criteria of being neither a Ford or Lincoln brand that one of the insiders hinted at last year. I agree that a Lincoln Everest doesn't seem to make that much sense. I've heard around the plant that that is a very high likelihood of happening. I mentioned it here a few months ago. Keep in mind that MAP is capable of 350k+ a year in production when running three shifts. Edited September 26, 2016 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) Troller is operated as a Subsidiary, which is to say Ford sold them the parts but that's the extent of their roll in development and manufacturing. I can guarantee you that Troller is playing no roll in the development of a new Ford product. Edited September 26, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Absolutely right, my sources suggest that apart from engine / trans, HVAC parts and minor bits, nothing is shared with T6. If Ford was looking at a Bronco on NG T6, then it would be SWB top hat on either Ranger (leaf spring) or Everest (watts Link). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 what happens when Gas prices go back up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 what happens when Gas prices go back up? People spend more money at the gas pump than when gas prices are lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 what happens when Gas prices go back up? They can buy one of these or even one of these That you keep claiming Ford isn't doing anything with...but yet are being replaced/upgraded in the next 18-24 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 what happens when Gas prices go back up? And they will-the minute the dirt bag Iranians sink a ship in the Strait of Hormuz-and that they will do-hopefully we have generated enough alternative supplies and the crude trains will start running again to minimize the impact. Let's just hope when it does happen the Mexican small car production is on line or MAP will have built up a good inventory before the plant is converted to...fuel efficient Ranger/Bronco-Everest with 4 cyl Ecoboost power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) And they will-the minute the dirt bag Iranians sink a ship in the Strait of Hormuz-and that they will do-hopefully we have generated enough alternative supplies and the crude trains will start running again to minimize the impact. Let's just hope when it does happen the Mexican small car production is on line or MAP will have built up a good inventory before the plant is converted to...fuel efficient Ranger/Bronco-Everest with 4 cyl Ecoboost power. Gas prices will be going back up, the Saudis are doing a 180 on price and volume....LINK So as As I see it, compact and mid sized sales should strengthen as some buyers will surely head to roughly one size smaller to get a bit more economy. In Full sized Trucks like F150 that could mean engines like the EB 27 with say, a 10AT become more important than all out power of the EB 3.5.... The one thing I would like to see Focus get for the final run to the finish would be the Escape's 1.5 EB and auto trans, I think that one change would give the Focus enough legs to get through and set up the next generation perfectly. the engineering and development is already done for ROW markets. Edited September 30, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 They're not going to invest the money needed for that into MAP just for a new engine so close to a major shutdown/retooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) They're not going to invest the money needed for that into MAP just for a new engine so close to a major shutdown/retooling. I know that but being one of the very few on this forum that has driven both 2.0 DI and 1.5 EB examples, I can tell you that it's like night and day, more power everywhere and slightly better FE. The transformation is simply stunning and something buyers can feel straight away. Edited October 1, 2016 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 My dad drove a diesel version in Europe and said he was pleasantly surprised. He drove ours and called it a wet blanket in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 My dad drove a diesel version in Europe and said he was pleasantly surprised. He drove ours and called it a wet blanket in comparison. Yes, the diesels are quite different to drive, we had the 2.0 diesel here until recently, it's a little weird at first upshifting a lot lower until you get confident that there's gonna be torque waiting for you at 1500. IMO, The 1.5 EB has more zip than the 2.0 DI and just as good on gas as the 1.0 EB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2016/10/15/gm-invests-millions-mexico-trump-bashes-ford/92163894/ Where's Trump's useless diarrhea of the mouth on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2016/10/15/gm-invests-millions-mexico-trump-bashes-ford/92163894/ Where's Trump's useless diarrhea of the mouth on this? It's not Ford, he doesn't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 It's not Ford, he doesn't care. I truly hate politicians. This election sucks. Can we have a Mulligan? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I do need to clarify that I support more manufacturing in the US. However, this political agenda crap is ridiculous. What about Trump's own clothing line made in China? These two candidates make me nauseous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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