Mustang_Marty Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 Ford's hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles use 2 AC electric motors. Either one can act as a generator or alternator as well. The two electric motors do away with the need for a traditional alternator and also a traditional transmission. The larger of the 2 motors is used for propulsion (motor mode) and regenerative braking & HV battery charging (generator mode). The smaller one starts the combustion engine (motor mode) and generates electrical power for the larger motor as well as recharges both HV and LV batteries (generator mode). Also to note that in the Engeri, there are two batteries; a standard hybrid battery and a 4x larger capacity one that is charged when the car is plugged in. The generator mode only charges the smaller hybrid battery and not the larger 5.2 kW battery. Once you use up the 15-20 miles the larger battery gives you, it has to be plugged in to recharge it. The plug-in charger will charge both batteries. Considering the size of the battery in my Fusion Energi, which will propel it 15-20 miles in EV mode, the battery would need to be a lot larger to move a BEV F-150 the same distance and several times larger to have a viable range. Payload and towing would kill the range. Maybe they will sell a 'boost caboose' you can haul behind to increase your range. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 3, 2018 Share Posted October 3, 2018 The Volt is the only one I know that does that (I think that's the way it works). In all other hybrids, the engine actually contributes to propulsion and doesn't just generate electricity to charge the batteries. My understanding is what rperez posted. The motor/generator will do some charging while the engine is running, but the engine and electric motors both provide propulsion. The only real difference between HEV and PHEV is that the PHEV has a much larger battery and can be plugged in to charge. BMW i3 and i8 does this as well... the engine charges the batteries directly. I think most new PHEV coming to the market has this program mode where the ICE can directly charge the main battery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 The public perception is still the Prius and max MPG. It's going to take a while to change that. But it can be done. After all, if you want to credit Tesla with one thing other than its million missteps, they made electric cars sexy when up to that point, they were big golf carts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 But it can be done. After all, if you want to credit Tesla with one thing other than its million missteps, they made electric cars sexy when up to that point, they were big golf carts. Agree. Probably because they wrapped electric drive in a vehicle that doesn't look like a bug or some origami/anime creature. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Agree. Probably because they wrapped electric drive in a vehicle that doesn't look like a bug or some origami/anime creature. I've said that all along - short of the original EV-1 (Which for its time was decent looking) every other electric car has been a compliance car. Tesla made electric cars cool, utilized the instant torque of electric motors to get massive performance and lithium ion battery's for storage. The old school thinking was that you had to lose money on electric cars. Where if you made them have better performance and style you can sell them at at 100K+ and market to not the commuter market but a premium customer. Ford seems to have learned, the Aviator will be the fastest SUV Ford has ever built and will be one of the fastest non limited production vehicles it has ever produced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Tesla made electric cars cool, utilized the instant torque of electric motors to get massive performance and lithium ion battery's for storage. The old school thinking was that you had to lose money on electric cars. Where if you made them have better performance and style you can sell them at at 100K+ and market to not the commuter market but a premium customer. Ford seems to have learned, the Aviator will be the fastest SUV Ford has ever built and will be one of the fastest non limited production vehicles it has ever produced. Tesla is planning to release a pure electric pickup truck in the next few years. This will encourage Ford and other existing pickup truck makers to step up their efforts in this area. https://electrek.co/2018/08/25/tesla-pickup-truck-electric-maybe-sooner-elon-musk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Tesla is planning to release a pure electric pickup truck in the next few years. This will encourage Ford and other existing pickup truck makers to step up their efforts in this area. https://electrek.co/2018/08/25/tesla-pickup-truck-electric-maybe-sooner-elon-musk/ . Yes, but the difference is, Ford, GM and FCA will build theirs in a building whereas Tesla will build their truck in a tent out in a parking lot... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 . Yes, but the difference is, Ford, GM and FCA will build theirs in a building whereas Tesla will build their truck in a tent out in a parking lot... But the people that live in Orange County and West Houston and put something in their truck from Ikea when their kids move to college or when they need some flowers from Home Depot will be trading in their 70K F-150 Limited for the 120K electric Tesla. Ford leads in Trucks, if there is one thing that should terrify any one in Dearborn more is that they lose that perception in the industry with Luxury Trucks. That perception is how they command ATP higher than GM and RAM; those luxury buyers will buy the cool Tesla built in a tent, I'd say that is probably the one thing that could over come product loyalty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Tesla has a Model Y and Roadster to develop/build, and the Semi. I suppose some day the truck too. It will be interesting to see how they manage that and update the S and X too. The S is as old as the Fusion. The X is, IMHO Teslas biggest risk. It has the quirky appearance and crazy doors that limit its appeal, and Jaguar, Audi, and others are building competitive BEV S/CUVs that are also gorgeous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 But the people that live in Orange County and West Houston and put something in their truck from Ikea when their kids move to college or when they need some flowers from Home Depot will be trading in their 70K F-150 Limited for the 120K electric Tesla. Ford leads in Trucks, if there is one thing that should terrify any one in Dearborn more is that they lose that perception in the industry with Luxury Trucks. That perception is how they command ATP higher than GM and RAM; those luxury buyers will buy the cool Tesla built in a tent, I'd say that is probably the one thing that could over come product loyalty. Mercedes is a an infinitely bigger threat than Tesla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Mercedes is a an infinitely bigger threat than Tesla. Theres a reason the Mercedes truck isnt sold here. Its junk, it would be ripped apart by owners of luxury trucks sold here. With the US on board with the next gen Ranger there will be luxury versions made that will oblerate the current Mercedes in drive and interior comfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Isnt the Mercedes truck a rebadged Nissan? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Also to note that in the Engeri, there are two batteries; a standard hybrid battery and a 4x larger capacity one that is charged when the car is plugged in. The generator mode only charges the smaller hybrid battery and not the larger 5.2 kW battery. Once you use up the 15-20 miles the larger battery gives you, it has to be plugged in to recharge it. The plug-in charger will charge both batteries. Considering the size of the battery in my Fusion Energi, which will propel it 15-20 miles in EV mode, the battery would need to be a lot larger to move a BEV F-150 the same distance and several times larger to have a viable range. Payload and towing would kill the range. Maybe they will sell a 'boost caboose' you can haul behind to increase your range. There is a 3.0 EB PHEV planned for Aviator and Explorer PIU as well as a 3.3 HEV, so I guess those RWD hybrids will eventually show up in F150......... I wonder if Ford will include the partial recharge feature of Voltec in mountain mode, that would seem an appropriate provision for a larger vehicle like a truck, the energy capture form regenerative braking with a loaded trailer would be phenomenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 Isnt the Mercedes truck a rebadged Nissan? Not quite a rebadge but not an original design from Daimler either. Mercedes-Benz X-Class uses the same platform as D23 Nissan Navara and some shared body panels. But the powertrains and electronics are from Daimler rather than Nissan/Renault. X-Class also has unique styling inside and out. It's assembled at Nissan and Renault plants in Argentina and Spain. X-Class. D23 Navara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 6, 2018 Share Posted October 6, 2018 (edited) Not quite a rebadge but not an original design from Daimler either. Mercedes-Benz X-Class uses the same platform as D23 Nissan Navara and some shared body panels. But the powertrains and electronics are from Daimler rather than Nissan/Renault. X-Class also has unique styling inside and out. It's assembled at Nissan and Renault plants in Argentina and Spain. Well said. This IMO, is a great example of how to share a platform and transform it into a premium offering that is clearly different to the originator, in all the ways that matter to the MB buyer........ Perhaps MB should keep doing this to other Nissan products and sell the design changes back to Infiniti.... Edited October 6, 2018 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Isnt the Mercedes truck a rebadged Nissan? Think that will stop the lemmings from buying it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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