Jump to content

None






Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, akirby said:


I don’t think there was room at the plant.  But I bet they figure out how to do it next time.


Pilot builds are done at the plant by hand using actual parts intended for production, as opposed to what the Pilot Plant does which is the same thing but every part is a prototype. The idea is to give feedback to suppliers so they can make appropriate changes before the next phase. This is standard procedure across the industry (except for Tesla because they're weird). It sounds like they had room to do it and even had an area set aside for it but chose not to utilize it the way they usually do. My guess is whoever made that decision did so trying to save the company money and make themself look like a hero. The ensuing shitstorm definitely cost more money than was likely saved. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, akirby said:


I don’t think there was room at the plant.  But I bet they figure out how to do it next time.

If there's no room to do pilot builds, then that just means a slower start up to check 

that the line works properly and that all jobs are done properly before setting line speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:


Seems as if we're putting the pieces together as to why Hinrichs was blown out. 

I wonder if he was given a flawed process and told to make it work, perhaps the push back

from the CAP manager was justified if the ideas from senior management were really that bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/15/2020 at 12:01 PM, FordBuyer said:

That's not what Ford is saying. Article quoted above says all is well and the warden has full control of the prisoners again. Also sounds like all the robots are finally calibrated.

Don't care what Ford is saying.  I see it all over Facebook and the forum I mod.  There are significant issues with the Explorer.  No different then the 5th generation back in 2010/2011.  Took them a few years to work everything out and still the EPAS and PTU are major problems.

 

2020 still has a ton a of trans issues (leaks, failure, full replacements) as well as a ton of electrical failure sending all kinds of warning lights on the dash.  I have seen more buybacks and lemon laws then I would ever expect.

 

On top of that, let's not mention the 20 recalls, TSBs and SSMs issued on the 2020 already.

 

https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/threads/6th-generation-ex-and-aviator-recalls-tsb-fsa-and-ssm.481543/

Edited by blwnsmoke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, blwnsmoke said:

Don't care what Ford is saying.  I see it all over Facebook and the forum I mod.  There are significant issues with the Explorer.  No different then the 5th generation back in 2010/2011.  Took them a few years to work everything out and still the EPAS and PTU are major problems.

 

2020 still has a ton a of trans issues (leaks, failure, full replacements) as well as a ton of electrical failure sending all kinds of warning lights on the dash.  I have seen more buybacks and lemon laws then I would ever expect.

 

On top of that, let's not mention the 20 recalls, TSBs and SSMs issued on the 2020 already.

 

https://www.explorerforum.com/forums/threads/6th-generation-ex-and-aviator-recalls-tsb-fsa-and-ssm.481543/


Granted any company would do the same thing as Ford and not acknowledge that their product has major issues.  Tesla will never admit that their products are, for lack of a better term, junk but it seems Ford has had a lot of big mishaps lately.  The 6.0 diesel continues to be a headache and still in the news along with the transmission in the Fiesta and Focus and now the Explorer/Aviator. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, FR739 said:


Granted any company would do the same thing as Ford and not acknowledge that their product has major issues.  Tesla will never admit that their products are, for lack of a better term, junk but it seems Ford has had a lot of big mishaps lately.  The 6.0 diesel continues to be a headache and still in the news along with the transmission in the Fiesta and Focus and now the Explorer/Aviator. 

 

Back in the bad ole days the original Escape had 13-15 recalls along with the Focus of the time.

 

the 6.0/6.4L is a supplier issue and Ford decided to go their own route as a lesson learned...the Ford designed PowerStroke seems pretty good. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Back in the bad ole days the original Escape had 13-15 recalls along with the Focus of the time.

 

the 6.0/6.4L is a supplier issue and Ford decided to go their own route as a lesson learned...the Ford designed PowerStroke seems pretty good. 

Three cheers for Navistar!!! I can still remember being behind those Navistar engined Super Duties as they stutter stepped down the highway belching black smoke and sometimes having to pull off the highway as they could not keep up with traffic because they would at times run so rough. Ford is pretty hit and miss with their products...this was a miss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Back in the bad ole days the original Escape had 13-15 recalls along with the Focus of the time.

 

the 6.0/6.4L is a supplier issue and Ford decided to go their own route as a lesson learned...the Ford designed PowerStroke seems pretty good. 


Ford certainly held the greater burden of responsibility for the 6.0 as the internal emails have proven.  They knew it was a problematic engine in Super Duty applications and denied to customers it had issues.  
 

Speaking of diesels though it astounds me how much 7.3L PowerStroke go for these days.  They really retain their value.  Proof that high tech is not necessarily better.  It would be an interesting study to look at warranty costs for the 7.3L compared to the 6.0L.  I bet in all the years of the 7.3L the warranty costs were less than half of the 6.0L and it’s rather short run.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

Three cheers for Navistar!!! I can still remember being behind those Navistar engined Super Duties as they stutter stepped down the highway belching black smoke and sometimes having to pull off the highway as they could not keep up with traffic because they would at times run so rough. Ford is pretty hit and miss with their products...this was a miss.

LOL, Navistar is VW's problem now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, FR739 said:

Speaking of diesels though it astounds me how much 7.3L PowerStroke go for these days.  They really retain their value.  Proof that high tech is not necessarily better.  It would be an interesting study to look at warranty costs for the 7.3L compared to the 6.0L.  I bet in all the years of the 7.3L the warranty costs were less than half of the 6.0L and it’s rather short run.  

 

Your living in a fantasy world now...the reason the 7.3L was replaced was because it couldn't meet the upcoming regulations for Diesel engines that happened 15-20 years ago...the switch to low sulfur fuels and increasing emissions regulations. Its like saying oh Muscle cars where great from the 1960s, yet their performance in a stock vs stock application can be beat by a family sedan with a V6 or Turbo 4 in almost every performance metric and get better gas mileage and be far more reliable 

 

The 7.3 was a product of its time and can't meet the regulations that Ford has to meet to sell vehicles now...thus why its popular in the secondary market-where they don't have to meet requirements in most states and once the price of mantaining them becomes too great, they'll fade into the history books

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Your living in a fantasy world now...the reason the 7.3L was replaced was because it couldn't meet the upcoming regulations for Diesel engines that happened 15-20 years ago...the switch to low sulfur fuels and increasing emissions regulations. Its like saying oh Muscle cars where great from the 1960s, yet their performance in a stock vs stock application can be beat by a family sedan with a V6 or Turbo 4 in almost every performance metric and get better gas mileage and be far more reliable 

 

The 7.3 was a product of its time and can't meet the regulations that Ford has to meet to sell vehicles now...thus why its popular in the secondary market-where they don't have to meet requirements in most states and once the price of mantaining them becomes too great, they'll fade into the history books

 

 

Couldn't and didn't meet emissions. Navistar was fined for lying about the 7.3's emissions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Your living in a fantasy world now...

 


Oh not at all.  Legitimately the prices for 7.3L powered vehicles is through the roof (relatively) and the 7.3L was/is an extremely reliable engine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, FR739 said:


Oh not at all.  Legitimately the prices for 7.3L powered vehicles is through the roof (relatively) and the 7.3L was/is an extremely reliable engine. 

 

Secondary market has zero impact on new sales. 

 

Just because something is "good" doesn't mean it can compete in the current market

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Secondary market has zero impact on new sales. 

 

Just because something is "good" doesn't mean it can compete in the current market


I never mentioned new sales.  This was a discussion regarding the 6.0L and how it was inferior to the 7.3L in terms of reliability. 
 

I don’t think it needs to be stated that a 275HP and 525TQ engine would not be able to be marketed/sold today (despite that amount of power being plenty for the vast majority of people).  Ford seems to have less issues with the 6.7L than the 6.0/6.4 which is good.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FR739 said:


I never mentioned new sales.  This was a discussion regarding the 6.0L and how it was inferior to the 7.3L in terms of reliability. 
 

I don’t think it needs to be stated that a 275HP and 525TQ engine would not be able to be marketed/sold today (despite that amount of power being plenty for the vast majority of people).  Ford seems to have less issues with the 6.7L than the 6.0/6.4 which is good.  

 

How the heck did we get from Explorer PI Hybrids to Powerstroke diesels?

 

HRG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, FR739 said:


I never mentioned new sales.  This was a discussion regarding the 6.0L and how it was inferior to the 7.3L in terms of reliability. 
 

I don’t think it needs to be stated that a 275HP and 525TQ engine would not be able to be marketed/sold today (despite that amount of power being plenty for the vast majority of people).  Ford seems to have less issues with the 6.7L than the 6.0/6.4 which is good.  

Navistar continued using the 6.0/6.4 through to 2016 so obviously ironed out a lot of the bugs

The 7.3 Powerstroke was a great engine but one from another era, the reason it has strong

pricing in the used market is exactly because of the high prices of new diesel trucks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

The 7.3 Powerstroke was a great engine but one from another era, the reason it has strong pricing in the used market is exactly because of the high prices of new diesel trucks.


I’m not sure on that.  
 

You can do a quick search of 2002-2003 Super Dutys and the 7.3 trucks will be thousands more than the 6.0 trucks.  6.0 trucks were in the $8,000-$12,000 range while 7.3 vehicles, some with higher miles, were in the $16,000-$33,000 range (that $33k truck is a crew cab lariat with 70k miles—but $33k is wildly overpriced)

 

So it’s obviously not the cost of new trucks because if it was the 6.0 would be in that general area (as would the Ram and GM models from that era) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, FR739 said:

 

You can do a quick search of 2002-2003 Super Dutys and the 7.3 trucks will be thousands more than the 6.0 trucks.  6.0 trucks were in the $8,000-$12,000 range while 7.3 vehicles, some with higher miles, were in the $16,000-$33,000 range (that $33k truck is a crew cab lariat with 70k miles—but $33k is wildly overpriced)

 

Your missing the point...the secondary market doesn't mean jackshit to Ford and them making money off it, because they don't. 

Its like comparing a fully restored Mustang from 1965 price to a brand new one today. There are so many variables that its not a direct comparison. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Your missing the point...the secondary market doesn't mean jackshit to Ford and them making money off it, because they don't. 

Its like comparing a fully restored Mustang from 1965 price to a brand new one today. There are so many variables that its not a direct comparison. 


I’m not sure why you keep bringing up the new truck market when it’s not relevant to what’s being discussed.  
 

The reply you quoted was a counter point to the claim that 7.3 powered trucks have such strong pricing because of the high price of new trucks. I dismissed that because if you compare 2002 7.3 SDs to 2003-2004 6.0 SDs, the price is much higher for the older 7.3 trucks and the only reason for that is the desirability of that engine. This never had to do with Ford this or new trucks that or who’s making money off what.  
 

There was no comparison made to 7.3L trucks and new SDs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As someone that owns a 7.3psd, has owned a 6.0 PSD, and also owns a 6.4 PSD and chooses to still daily drive my 96 7.3 with 370k miles on it and uses the 6.4 on it's second engine at 120k miles as little as possible... there's a reason the 7.3 holds it's value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But even being burned by the last two international engines, I'm still eyeballing a new 6.7 when the 6.4 shits out again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Captainp4 said:

But even being burned by the last two international engines, I'm still eyeballing a new 6.7 when the 6.4 shits out again.

 

6.7L Powerstroke is not built by International. Maybe you could do a 7.3L Godzilla crate motor drop in when that 6.4 shits out...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Captainp4 said:

As someone that owns a 7.3psd, has owned a 6.0 PSD, and also owns a 6.4 PSD and chooses to still daily drive my 96 7.3 with 370k miles on it and uses the 6.4 on it's second engine at 120k miles as little as possible... there's a reason the 7.3 holds it's value.


Thank you.  That’s all I was trying to say.  
 

Crazy though that you’re on your 2nd 6.4 in 120k miles.   I didn’t realize the 6.4 was that bad. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×