Footballfan Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 It didn't help that Ford cancelled a new paint shop for FRAP twice in the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, snooter said: Ohio is about to lose another manuf-facility (press release by ford this date)....there is no "progression" with exception of "political progression"...ford needs to control where the liability issues reside.. They are getting something much better, electrified Trucks 6 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: You were able to decipher that drivel? It possible to be civil. 5 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: The UAW is already pissed off because twice they've done this to Flat Rock in the last 5 years and now Ohio. Enough is enough. The union has been lead to believe certain things during negotiations that seem to evaporate due to Fords own bad planning. Low performance management cannot be tolerated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: They have to be coming, they’re just not ready to talk about it yet. There's a lot coming in the next 12-18 months. The fact that Ford either can't or won't talk about major products coming inside two years is a giant fail and it's why Wall Street, investors, the union and employees still have low confidence in Ford senior management, they should be short stroking this to news outlets at every opportunity, why do they fail so badly at communication? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) I would not rely on eletrification to retain usa jobs...dearborn may become corporate office with all other moved from usa...usa may well end -up the net-importer...where those workers go for employment may well become the "political warfare" for the next 20 years.....ohio assembly is not getting product..ford announced today it is moving product (900 million investment just evaporated) to mexico... Edited March 18, 2021 by snooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, jpd80 said: The fact that Ford either can't or won't talk about major products coming inside two years is a giant fail and it's why Wall Street, investors, the union and employees still have low confidence in Ford senior management, they should be short stroking this to news outlets at every opportunity, why do they fail so badly at communication? It's not so much that but not of what we already know about. Here's a short list of everything coming in the next 12-18 months just off the top of my head: BEV F-150 BEV Transit Maverick (with rumored FHEV and/or PHEV variant) NG Ranger (with rumored FHEV/PHEV variant(s)) NG Mustang (with rumored hybrid) Bronco Warthog F-150 Raptor (and Raptor R) Expedition/Navigator refreshes NG Transit Connect You can't just dump information out there and expect nothing to get lost in the shuffle. If they were to talk about that all at the same time there's going to be something that doesn't get any attention, it's inevitable. Need to be smart and that's what they’re trying to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 18 minutes ago, jpd80 said: It possible to be civil. I've tried with him, it's literally impossible. Especially when he keeps flat out saying I don't deserve to have a job and has zero clue what he's talking about. He's lost any chance of me being civil when he's involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I've tried with him, it's literally impossible. Especially when he keeps flat out saying I don't deserve to have a job and has zero clue what he's talking about. He's lost any chance of me being civil when he's involved. Some believe that their opinions are fact and won't be convinced otherwise. The only way to undo untruths is time and actions in the opposite direction, arguing with each other on the internet just strengthens resolve...... When you only look at product lost / going to Mexico, it's easy to miss all the electric vehicles that are going ahead in the US and how many jobs that is generating, you and I know that so refuse to live in the glass half empty world.... Edited March 18, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ford-move-900-million-plant-ohio-mexico-report Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, jpd80 said: Some believe that their opinions are fact and won't be convinced otherwise. The only way to undo untruths is time and actions in the opposite direction, arguing with each other on the internet just strengthens resolve...... Yeah, I'm not going to lie down and just take the baseless personal attacks on my livelihood Edited March 18, 2021 by akirby Personal attack removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 We all know everything is subject to change at fomoco. UAW has every damn right to be pissed. When I hear Ford retooling plans I say we’ll see based on all of this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 hour ago, snooter said: Its coming and going right to mexico.....it started day 1 with pipefiters being tossed to the curb (pipeline) That particular project has been circling the airport for a lot of years, beginning in Mexico then somewhere near FRAP to OHAP and now back to Mexico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: They have to be coming, they’re just not ready to talk about it yet. There's a lot coming in the next 12-18 months. I have to think that since negotiations/UAW contract, they've unearthed an opportunity to put higher profit commercial-oriented BEV products at Ohio (which makes more sense anyway, given what's already made there), but they don't want to announce them yet and let the competition know what they're doing. And since the other BEVs that are now going to Mexico had already been announced as part of the contract, they had no problem mentioning them in this move. I can understand why the UAW would be upset at this news, but I think there's a 0% chance Ohio doesn't get something else in lieu of them. 1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said: I've tried with him, it's literally impossible. Especially when he keeps flat out saying I don't deserve to have a job and has zero clue what he's talking about. He's lost any chance of me being civil when he's involved. He's been on my ignore list for years now, might be worth you using it. Edited March 18, 2021 by rmc523 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, rmc523 said: He's been on my ignore list for years now, might be worth you using it. Same. The only reason I ever see his posts is whenever someone quotes him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Just now, fuzzymoomoo said: Same. The only reason I ever see his posts is whenever someone quotes him. Sorry that would be me, I should know better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 The other thing at play here is that I bet part of the move of these products to Mexico was the ability to import them to the EU without tariffs. I’m reading the tea leaves here and I think that the EU is about five years ahead of the US in EV adoption and these products are coming sooner then later and before OAP tools up for EV production that will feed mostly the NA market. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 19 minutes ago, silvrsvt said: The other thing at play here is that I bet part of the move of these products to Mexico was the ability to import them to the EU without tariffs. I’m reading the tea leaves here and I think that the EU is about five years ahead of the US in EV adoption and these products are coming sooner then later and before OAP tools up for EV production that will feed mostly the NA market. The question is what Europe gets, though, between MEB-based models and our models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 There may also be a very obvious motive for Ford to move the EV to Mexico... If Ford plans to export them to Europe it is much better to build them in Canada or Mexico because those countries have free trade agreement with EU. I think Biden Admin probably should consider restarting negotiation with EU on TTIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Then it will all leave the country.....its just cheaper to leave detroit, cut your liability and quarterly costs (human resources) and forget it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 17 hours ago, jpd80 said: After the big announcement of BEVs in Canada, I thinking was only a matter of time before Ford would change plans again and either move the BEVs to Canada or Mexico and not build a facility for just two vehicles....... if you don't like a Ford plan, just wait six months..... And there’s the problem with development cost overruns, delayed products, and lack of profits. Too many changes in direction. Plans get started, money is spent, and then the plan changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Oacjay98 said: I’m sure the US will get the lion share of any EV investments going forward Only if the pricing allows them to still make a profit with the higher costs in the US. That could come from state and federal incentives as Canada is doing. I could see batteries, motors, and electronic modules all being imported and dropped into chassis assembled in the US. Thinking about it....not much different than engines from Windsor and Essex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, slemke said: And there’s the problem with development cost overruns, delayed products, and lack of profits. Too many changes in direction. Plans get started, money is spent, and then the plan changes. That’s been a big problem with Ford lately. Moving Fusion, Mondeo, Edge and Nautilus to CD4 and moving Escape, Kuga and Corsair to C1 made sense at the time but in hindsight they should have waited for C2. At least now they have the platforms sorted out. Now the issue is BEVs and what needs to be done now vs later, on Ford vs VW vs Rivian platforms and at which locations and which ICE vehicles have to go. It’s a really difficult problem to solve with so many options and a very unsure market forecast. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: The other thing at play here is that I bet part of the move of these products to Mexico was the ability to import them to the EU without tariffs. I’m reading the tea leaves here and I think that the EU is about five years ahead of the US in EV adoption and these products are coming sooner then later and before OAP tools up for EV production that will feed mostly the NA market. I would say that’s a pretty good assessment. Also, we all knew that the Mach-E wasn’t gonna be the sole vehicle there at the Mexican plant. We just didn’t know that they would move the products from OHAP to Mexico to fill the production down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oac98 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 17 minutes ago, slemke said: Only if the pricing allows them to still make a profit with the higher costs in the US. That could come from state and federal incentives as Canada is doing. I could see batteries, motors, and electronic modules all being imported and dropped into chassis assembled in the US. Thinking about it....not much different than engines from Windsor and Essex. I’m sure Ford has future plans for their UAW plants to adopt EVs when and if ICE is done down the road. All of the above will be assembled in the US as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slemke Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: The UAW is already pissed off because twice they've done this to Flat Rock in the last 5 years and now Ohio. Enough is enough. And if they stay pissed off, it will make Ford’s decision lower US production easier. Nothing like pricing yourself out of a job and annoying the boss. Flat Rock is a problem. Tall vehicles that are in demand and profitable won’t fit without major updates. Other than the Mustang, what other US product would go there and still be profitable? If Ford can’t find anything, moving Mustang becomes more attractive. An uncooperative union won’t help the situation. Ford management under the direction of the board of directors runs the company, not the union. I get that they are upset about product changes at Avon Lake. But, if Ford keeps the plant busy, it shouldn’t matter what is built there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, slemke said: And if they stay pissed off, it will make Ford’s decision lower US production easier. Nothing like pricing yourself out of a job and annoying the boss. Flat Rock is a problem. Tall vehicles that are in demand and profitable won’t fit without major updates. Other than the Mustang, what other US product would go there and still be profitable? If Ford can’t find anything, moving Mustang becomes more attractive. An uncooperative union won’t help the situation. Ford management under the direction of the board of directors runs the company, not the union. I get that they are upset about product changes at Avon Lake. But, if Ford keeps the plant busy, it shouldn’t matter what is built there. There is no other plant where Mustang can easily be moved to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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