rmc523 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 3 hours ago, rperez817 said: Rivian CEO R.J. Scaringe backtracked on the decision to mark up prices for reservation holders and pre-orders. Rivian will now honor the original, lower prices for these customers, even those who cancelled their orders and wish to reinstate. A Letter from Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe on Pricing Updates | Business Wire I'd imagine damage is already done for a lot of people with reservations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 17 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I'd imagine damage is already done for a lot of people with reservations. Rivian's decision to mark up pricing for existing pre-order customers is the greatest strategic blunder in that company's history so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 40 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Even worse, Jalopnik reader Joel, who tried to buy an EV6 from local dealers in California (by far the #1 state in the U.S. for BEV purchases) had such a poor experience with those dealers that he ended up placing the order with a Kia dealer in Idaho. Kia Dealers Are Going To Kill The EV6 (jalopnik.com) These dealership shenanigans aren't limited to Kia. All incumbent automakers with franchised dealerships have to deal with it to some extent. This is why Jim Farley said "the margins that we want to build to in BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) are gonna be heavily dependent on a different go-to-market and customer experience." Tesla and Rivian both raised prices - in some cases as much as $9k - so stop painting this as a dealer issue. It’s a market issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 15 minutes ago, akirby said: Tesla and Rivian both raised prices - in some cases as much as $9k - so stop painting this as a dealer issue. It’s a market issue. Vehicle price increases over the past year have been applied by all automakers, both incumbent as well 100% BEV automakers with a direct to consumer sales model. Many vehicles from incumbent automakers have dealer markups on top of that. The nonsense described in the Jalopnik article about the Kia EV6 shopping experience like credit checks for test drives and outright lies told to prospective consumers is entirely a dealership issue. Until franchised new car dealers (not just Kia) really get their act together, direct to consumer will remain the superior sales model for BEV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: Vehicle price increases over the past year have been applied by all automakers, both incumbent as well 100% BEV automakers with a direct to consumer sales model. Many vehicles from incumbent automakers have dealer markups on top of that. The nonsense described in the Jalopnik article about the Kia EV6 shopping experience like credit checks for test drives and outright lies told to prospective consumers is entirely a dealership issue. Until franchised new car dealers (not just Kia) really get their act together, direct to consumer will remain the superior sales model for BEV. You just proved my point - mfr direct sales do not protect the buyer from market adjustments - they’re just done a different way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 BTW - if I don’t live in a big city how do I test drive a Rivian or Tesla without driving 2-4 hours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajohnson Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 2 hours ago, rperez817 said: Rivian's decision to mark up pricing for existing pre-order customers is the greatest strategic blunder in that company's history so far. Absolutely! It's one thing to raise prices openly, up-front, pre-order. That's expected, regardless of the product (although recent price increases have been extraordinarily high). It's something else entirely to play "gotcha" extortion games with customers who ordered in good faith. That's dead wrong, and should be illegal (if it isn't already). Let's say a couple makes an offer on a house and it is accepted. Then a few weeks later at settlement -- right before signing the papers -- the owner's agent demands another $30,000, because she realizes there is a buyer that will pay more. In short -- a deal is a deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 14 minutes ago, sajohnson said: In short -- a deal is a deal. All true which is why you can walk away with no penalty. But if you sue you have to prove damages of some kind. Your best bet is to pay the extra fees and then sue them for that extra cost as a breach of contract. Otherwise you won’t have the vehicle and proving damages is really difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajohnson Posted March 3, 2022 Share Posted March 3, 2022 32 minutes ago, akirby said: All true which is why you can walk away with no penalty. But if you sue you have to prove damages of some kind. Your best bet is to pay the extra fees and then sue them for that extra cost as a breach of contract. Otherwise you won’t have the vehicle and proving damages is really difficult. Hopefully it won't come to that. Our local dealer is over 105 years old(!) and has been in the same family the entire time. They seem to have a good reputation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, akirby said: BTW - if I don’t live in a big city how do I test drive a Rivian or Tesla without driving 2-4 hours? For Rivian. Quote We offer multiple ways to experience Rivian vehicles in-person. These programs are ongoing and we will be adding more areas each month with a planned expansion in 2022. Mobile Drives Schedule a time and place that’s convenient and we’ll bring a Rivian to you. A Rivian Field Specialist will walk you through the vehicle and accompany you on a demo drive. Drive Events Our First Mile Event Tour allows you to drive a Rivian on a course designed to demonstrate key vehicle features and capabilities. Rivian Field Specialists will be available as well to answer all your questions. For Tesla. Quote Tesla occasionally hosts test drive events for those who don’t live near a showroom. You can check out our events page to find regional test drive tours near you. Edited March 4, 2022 by rperez817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirzatera180 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) I went to my Dealership yesterday, they had a new Bronco marked up 10k over MSRP. teatv apk download hellodear.in Edited March 8, 2022 by mirzatera180 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 I've seen a headline that some former employee of Rivian was claiming that the price increase was always coming. Speaking of markups-I saw a Maverick at a local dealership yesterday that was marked up $7500! This same dealership had one back in October with only a $5K markup on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 3/3/2022 at 2:39 PM, rperez817 said: Until franchised new car dealers (not just Kia) really get their act together, direct to consumer will remain the superior sales model for BEV. Good video from John McElroy of Autoline Daily explaining why direct to consumer based on "build to customer order" is the best sales model for BEV, what possibilities exist for Ford to create a replica of that model as closely as possible within the franchised dealer framework now that Ford's BEV/advanced technology operations are an independent business unit, and why Jim Farley said "the margins that we want to build to in BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) are gonna be heavily dependent on a different go-to-market and customer experience". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 2 things. Shipping factory direct to consumers is pretty easy when you only sell 200k a year but it doesn’t scale at all when you go to 2.5M/year per mfr and 17m/yr overall. There is a reason they ship by train. 2nd - Ford is already doing the order online model. Between Mach-E, Lightning, Bronco, Bronco Sport and Maverick folks spec out what they want and expect to pay the MSRP as listed. Half of them think they’re buying direct even though the dealer is still placing the actual order. So that’s not revolutionary. What would be great is if they locked in pricing for orders at MSRP and paid the dealer a fixed fee for each delivery. Schedule an online order immediately no worries about allocations. I do t see them doing their own financing and trade-ins and govt paperwork - that’s a lot of overhead for 2.5M sales and would require a very large staf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 27 minutes ago, akirby said: 2 things. Shipping factory direct to consumers is pretty easy when you only sell 200k a year but it doesn’t scale at all when you go to 2.5M/year per mfr and 17m/yr overall. There is a reason they ship by train. Uh Telsa ships their cars via train to the East Coast..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, silvrsvt said: Uh Telsa ships their cars via train to the East Coast..... But they get put on a truck for delivery to individual customers whereas legacy mfrs deliver an entire truckload to one dealer. Big difference in transportation costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, akirby said: But they get put on a truck for delivery to individual customers whereas legacy mfrs deliver an entire truckload to one dealer. Big difference in transportation costs. Tesla offers its new car customers in the U.S. 3 delivery options. Express Delivery at a Tesla location Tesla Direct (customer specified location, only available in certain areas to customers within an approved distance from their local Tesla delivery center) Carrier Direct (fee based option with delivery to a customer specified location by an independent carrier) Majority of Tesla new vehicle deliveries in the U.S. use option #1, which entails truckload deliveries similar to how incumbent automakers deliver new vehicles to dealerships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Majority of Tesla new vehicle deliveries in the U.S. use option #1, which entails truckload deliveries similar to how incumbent automakers deliver new vehicles to dealerships. Not comparable at all when you consider there are probably 75 Ford dealers in the state of Ga and only 5 Tesla showrooms - 4 of which are in metro Atlanta. Again what works for a few thousand vehicles doesn’t always work for a few million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 29 minutes ago, akirby said: Again what works for a few thousand vehicles doesn’t always work for a few million. Tesla has already proven that the direct to consumer, build to customer order sales model works just as well or better for a few million vehicles as it does for a few thousand. This is due to the reduction in "friction" that John McElroy spoke about in his video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 55 minutes ago, rperez817 said: Tesla has already proven that the direct to consumer, build to customer order sales model works just as well or better for a few million vehicles as it does for a few thousand. This is due to the reduction in "friction" that John McElroy spoke about in his video. When did Tesla sell and deliver more than 2 million vehicles in the US in one year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 5 hours ago, silvrsvt said: I've seen a headline that some former employee of Rivian was claiming that the price increase was always coming. Speaking of markups-I saw a Maverick at a local dealership yesterday that was marked up $7500! This same dealership had one back in October with only a $5K markup on it. ...And the mark up eliminates any savings you may have from the fuel economy increase, so now you might as well not get one and keep your old car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnsmoke Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, akirby said: When did Tesla sell and deliver more than 2 million vehicles in the US in one year? Stop worrying about the minor details of such a claim... he stated it has been proven. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, akirby said: When did Tesla sell and deliver more than 2 million vehicles in the US in one year? They sold 352K last year in the USA, which is more than a "few thousand" the last time I checked. It's not at Ford levels, but it's not small potatoes either. In the history of the company, they HAVE sold over two million vehicles using the direct sales method. However you respond to me, I'll keep in mind your not-so-hot track record on Tesla. They were supposed to have went bankrupt, dried up and blown away in the wind by now according to you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 15 minutes ago, AGR said: They sold 352K last year in the USA, which is more than a "few thousand" the last time I checked. It's not at Ford levels, but it's not small potatoes either. In the history of the company, they HAVE sold over two million vehicles using the direct sales method. However you respond to me, I'll keep in mind your not-so-hot track record on Tesla. They were supposed to have went bankrupt, dried up and blown away in the wind by now according to you. Tesla is really sitting pretty now being the only EV company that can produce hundreds of thousands of EVs with more production coming on line this year. The only problem is how many more consumers can afford $60,000 + EV. The extended range Leaf looks better now at half the price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 2 hours ago, AGR said: They sold 352K last year in the USA, which is more than a "few thousand" the last time I checked. It's not at Ford levels, but it's not small potatoes either. In the history of the company, they HAVE sold over two million vehicles using the direct sales method. However you respond to me, I'll keep in mind your not-so-hot track record on Tesla. They were supposed to have went bankrupt, dried up and blown away in the wind by now according to you. I think that particular discussion was more about a direct to consumer in the sense of delivering it right to a customer at their house, which isn't a very economic way to do it, unless you're charging extra for that approach. And the counter argument was that even Tesla sends most of its sold units to dealers for pickup there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.