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Ford Thunderbird Being Considered As Possible Corvette Rival

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https://youtu.be/0sMEJ2Pdh70

 

This probably won't have too much to do with the final thunderbird design ford offers, but it's cool to see the various ideas people have. This was a series of student projects at Art Center, the part pertaining to the thunderbird starts at just under a min into the vid. Would be cool if Ford used some of these design cues, especially off of the first model and the one the girl is working on. 

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1 hour ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

According to who? I'm not sure I believe that. 

 

Morgan Stanley.  A lot to digest in this article, but somebody figured the Corvette's profit margin at 16.5%.  

 

https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.com/forum/me-discussion-photos-videos/91032-morgan-stanley-says-megabillion-business-case-for-c8-to-become-own-brand

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1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

 

Morgan Stanley.  A lot to digest in this article, but somebody figured the Corvette's profit margin at 16.5%.  

 

https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.com/forum/me-discussion-photos-videos/91032-morgan-stanley-says-megabillion-business-case-for-c8-to-become-own-brand

 

I browsed through that and it looks like its not taking development costs into consideration and is assuming a BEV CUV would lead to huge sales increases?

 

The Vette starts at 60K and goes for 80-90K depending on how its equipped.

 

Lets say the costs to just build the Vette around 20-40K in parts then figure in whatever engineering costs etc that need to be factored into that...still not sure how it can make a 16.5% margin

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I have never owned a Thunderbird, but this is what I always think of when the car comes to mind. From American Graffiti, an Edsel and a T-Bird meet like two ships passing in the night. 

 

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12 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

I browsed through that and it looks like its not taking development costs into consideration and is assuming a BEV CUV would lead to huge sales increases?

 

The Vette starts at 60K and goes for 80-90K depending on how its equipped.

 

Lets say the costs to just build the Vette around 20-40K in parts then figure in whatever engineering costs etc that need to be factored into that...still not sure how it can make a 16.5% margin


No way they’re making that on the base models but like other vehicles the options and high end models get very pricey and a lot of that extra cost is profit, so overall I could see that type of margin.   I bet Ford is making a lot more than that on high end trucks and SUVs.

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33 minutes ago, akirby said:


No way they’re making that on the base models but like other vehicles the options and high end models get very pricey and a lot of that extra cost is profit, so overall I could see that type of margin.   I bet Ford is making a lot more than that on high end trucks and SUVs.


I was messing with the configurations of the Vette-they start at 60k and a well equipped one is about $20k more. 
 

I think Ford is making more selling a F-150 limited at $76k vs selling a 30k XL

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I’m unclear how this is supposed to be a corvette competitor, even an indirect competitor, when nothing suggested so far seems to be similar to the C8. As a Ford fan I respect the C8 for what they have accomplished. It’s an affordable performance vehicle for the masses, and looks the part. 
 

I would like to see a watered down version of the outgoing GT to compete with the C8 at the same price point. They would sell every one of them, just as Chevy is doing. I would prefer a gas motor, but I understand if it were a BEV, however I would argue the majority of people still want an ICE powertrain. 

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Personally, I'd like to see Ford do something different.  Something unique enough that it doesn't compete with Mustang, or the Corvette.  Thunderbird was good at doing it's own thing.  Just my personal opinion...

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How about a modernized, cleaned-up, adult four-seater version of the perennial 'Squarebird'.  And an ALL ICE drivetrain - no EV shenannigans! 😎👍

 

-Ovaltine

squarebird.png

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2 hours ago, Ovaltine said:

How about a modernized, cleaned-up, adult four-seater version of the perennial 'Squarebird'.  And an ALL ICE drivetrain - no EV shenannigans! 😎👍

 

-Ovaltine

squarebird.png

This is just proof that most American cars from the 50s were hideous. Especially if that design was seen as one of the better ones. The original t-bird was gorgeous, as was the bullet bird, every other t-bird design was about as attractive as a saggy 90 year old's wet ass. Ford can make a more attractive design if they just throw most of the retro cues out the window. Keep the classic gt proportions maybe, do a cool throwback to old school fins with like a 3D boomerang taillight design, and that's about it. Everything else should look modern.

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59 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

This is just proof that most American cars from the 50s were hideous. Especially if that design was seen as one of the better ones. The original t-bird was gorgeous, as was the bullet bird, every other t-bird design was about as attractive as a saggy 90 year old's wet ass. Ford can make a more attractive design if they just throw most of the retro cues out the window. Keep the classic gt proportions maybe, do a cool throwback to old school fins with like a 3D boomerang taillight design, and that's about it. Everything else should look modern.

Like this?

 

ford-at-2020-auto-china.webp

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1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

This is just proof that most American cars from the 50s were hideous. Especially if that design was seen as one of the better ones. The original t-bird was gorgeous, as was the bullet bird, every other t-bird design was about as attractive as a saggy 90 year old's wet ass.....

 

Won't argue that the Squarebird was butt-ugly.  Plus it had the unfortunate job of following up the 55-57 two-seat Thunderbird.  I despised it back then, mainly because it wasn't a two-seater.  For that matter I don't care for it much today.  The styling to me, just doesn't work.  Both ostentatious and gaudy at the same time.  I also agree that the 61-63 Bulletbirds were damn good looking.  My favorite T-birds, after the 55-57 two-seaters.

 

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3 hours ago, The Handler said:

Like this?

 

ford-at-2020-auto-china.webp

Pretty much. Still hoping that sculpture previews some elements of the s650. The front of the s650 clearly looks more like the current mustang, but I've heard the rest of the cars design deviates more from the s550. Would love if that roofline with it's more extreme fastback was basically identical to the next mustang.

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17 hours ago, Ovaltine said:

How about a modernized, cleaned-up, adult four-seater version of the perennial 'Squarebird'.  And an ALL ICE drivetrain - no EV shenannigans! 😎👍

 

-Ovaltine

squarebird.png

 

EV is the future.   

 

When a $150K 4-door luxury sedan can drag the paint off of a $650K hybrid Ferrari halo car it might be time to reassess the EV hate.  

 

 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

Won't argue that the Squarebird was butt-ugly.  Plus it had the unfortunate job of following up the 55-57 two-seat Thunderbird.  I despised it back then, mainly because it wasn't a two-seater.  For that matter I don't care for it much today.  The styling to me, just doesn't work.  Both ostentatious and gaudy at the same time.  I also agree that the 61-63 Bulletbirds were damn good looking.  My favorite T-birds, after the 55-57 two-seaters.

 

 

Beauty's in the eye of the beholder, that's for sure.   But I still think a modern interpretation of the Squarebird (with the awkward side lines and 'spear' details removed - agreed!) would exhibit some real badazz vibe(s).   The ICE drivetrain would just be a nod to the retro-ish theme.   We've got the next 100 years to listen to the whirring of appliance vehicle drivetrains.   Let's have one last blast of some mellow "thump-thump" soundtrack before the party's truly over.  😉

 

 

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/strikingly-stylish-1960-ford-thunderbird

 

"...Adding those two extra seats in the back changed everything. Sales skyrocketed, and the all-new, bigger, roomier and more practical Thunderbird became the must-see car in Ford showrooms that year."

 

-Ovaltine

Edited by Ovaltine

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1 hour ago, Ovaltine said:

 

Beauty's in the eye of the beholder, that's for sure.   But I still think a modern interpretation of the Squarebird (with the awkward side lines and 'spear' details removed - agreed!) would exhibit some real badazz vibe(s).   The ICE drivetrain would just be a nod to the retro-ish theme.   We've got the next 100 years to listen to the whirring of appliance vehicle drivetrains.   Let's have one last blast of some mellow "thump-thump" soundtrack before the party's truly over.  😉

 

 

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/strikingly-stylish-1960-ford-thunderbird

 

"...Adding those two extra seats in the back changed everything. Sales skyrocketed, and the all-new, bigger, roomier and more practical Thunderbird became the must-see car in Ford showrooms that year."

 

-Ovaltine

I just think retro design is winding down, at least retro design that was inspired by 50s and 60s cars. With the terrible track record that retro design has had, with maybe 5 attractive retro designs compared to 10-15 hideous retro designs, I don't want ford to risk going to retro route. Regarding powertrains, I'd prefer a EV two seater sporty gt, maybe with more exotic proportions and c8 levels of performance. If the next Thunderbird is just a 4 seater, v8 powered rwd front engine gt with a lot of retro styling, that at that point, what differentiates it from the mustang? If ford's gonna do this, go all out like GM did with the c8, or like ford's done with their own gt, mustang, or bronco in the past. If all ford is planning is a mustang with leather seats and some round retro looking taillights, then don't even bother. Ford has to put a lot of thought into how to make something compelling, and eye-catching, something with gotta have it potential. Making an ev with c8 like proportions allows ford to make a gorgeous exotic. Giving it a nicer interior than the c8 and making it all electric allows ford to differentiate itself enough from the c8 to succeed.

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2 hours ago, Ovaltine said:

 

Beauty's in the eye of the beholder, that's for sure.   But I still think a modern interpretation of the Squarebird (with the awkward side lines and 'spear' details removed - agreed!) would exhibit some real badazz vibe(s).   The ICE drivetrain would just be a nod to the retro-ish theme.   We've got the next 100 years to listen to the whirring of appliance vehicle drivetrains.   Let's have one last blast of some mellow "thump-thump" soundtrack before the party's truly over.  😉

 

 

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/strikingly-stylish-1960-ford-thunderbird

 

"...Adding those two extra seats in the back changed everything. Sales skyrocketed, and the all-new, bigger, roomier and more practical Thunderbird became the must-see car in Ford showrooms that year."

 

-Ovaltine

 

When it comes to sales figures, the T-Birds of the late 50's and 60's easily outsold the Corvettes of that era. I still remember as a 10 year old sitting in a '58 T-Bird and being so impressed over its jet age interior. And it sold like hotcakes and was an expensive vehicle.

 

So a new T-Bird if done right would easily outsell the Corvette a couple times over even at $75,000 price range. 

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49 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I just think retro design is winding down, at least retro design that was inspired by 50s and 60s cars. With the terrible track record that retro design has had, with maybe 5 attractive retro designs compared to 10-15 hideous retro designs, I don't want ford to risk going to retro route. Regarding powertrains, I'd prefer a EV two seater sporty gt, maybe with more exotic proportions and c8 levels of performance. If the next Thunderbird is just a 4 seater, v8 powered rwd front engine gt with a lot of retro styling, that at that point, what differentiates it from the mustang? If ford's gonna do this, go all out like GM did with the c8, or like ford's done with their own gt, mustang, or bronco in the past. If all ford is planning is a mustang with leather seats and some round retro looking taillights, then don't even bother. Ford has to put a lot of thought into how to make something compelling, and eye-catching, something with gotta have it potential. Making an ev with c8 like proportions allows ford to make a gorgeous exotic. Giving it a nicer interior than the c8 and making it all electric allows ford to differentiate itself enough from the c8 to succeed.

 

I don't expect an exotic, but a 2 dr. and 4dr. coupe like luxurious BEV with a frunk and more aero and faster than a Mach E GT when trimmed out. And an interior even better than a Mach E GT. Probably starting price of $70,000 going to $100,000+ in higher trims and power. Definitely full electric only. A 21st Century T-Bird. 

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Posted (edited)

This generation doesn't even know what Thunderbird was!  The generation that does know it, are old and not going to buy this.  Let the Mustang handle it.  How many Corvettes does Chevy sell, 20,000 units?  Let me get this straight:  They are dropping the Edge, but they want to build a T-Bird?  Forget it!  Who came up with this idea?  The same guy who thought of buying Jag and LR  and Volvo for billions, then spent billions to streamline and then sell those brands for 25% of what they put into it?  Or the guy who thought of selling the farm tractor biz or the heavy truck biz that was just retooled in 1997 for almost nothing?  That guy?  To improve shareholder value?  Decision-making at Ford does NOT impress me.  Yeah I know who was in charge when these events happened.  But I want to know the name of the moron in whose brain these ideas popped up in to begin with!

Edited by Joe771476

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16 hours ago, FordBuyer said:

 

I don't expect an exotic, but a 2 dr. and 4dr. coupe like luxurious BEV with a frunk and more aero and faster than a Mach E GT when trimmed out. And an interior even better than a Mach E GT. Probably starting price of $70,000 going to $100,000+ in higher trims and power. Definitely full electric only. A 21st Century T-Bird. 

If this is a true Corvette competitor, it will be ICE.  I would imagine there would be very little cross shopping between a Vette and a Tesla. 

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21 hours ago, ESP08 said:

 

EV is the future.   

 

When a $150K 4-door luxury sedan can drag the paint off of a $650K hybrid Ferrari halo car it might be time to reassess the EV hate.  

 

 

The Ferrari will be dragging the paint off the Tesla when the latter's owner is waiting two hours for a partial charge or cannot find a charging station.  

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1 hour ago, Footballfan said:

The Ferrari will be dragging the paint off the Tesla when the latter's owner is waiting two hours for a partial charge or cannot find a charging station.  

 

Tesla superchargers are pretty common now and give you 200 miles of range in 15 mins.  

 

I don't see too many people taking long road trips in a hypercars either.   

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1 hour ago, ESP08 said:

 

Tesla superchargers are pretty common now and give you 200 miles of range in 15 mins.  

 

I don't see too many people taking long road trips in a hypercars either.   

Long trips or not, I can get a full tank of gas in 5 minutes or less and have more than twice the range.  Charging time is a major concern and barrier to EV adoption IMHO.

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17 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

Long trips or not, I can get a full tank of gas in 5 minutes or less and have more than twice the range.  Charging time is a major concern and barrier to EV adoption IMHO.

 

Not really....consider the fact that you can recharge your car every night at home...

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52 minutes ago, Footballfan said:

Long trips or not, I can get a full tank of gas in 5 minutes or less and have more than twice the range.  Charging time is a major concern and barrier to EV adoption IMHO.

 

It's only a barrier to a dedicated long-haul vehicle, IMO.  

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