2024 Ford Bronco Sport Drops Base Trim

[HotRunrGuy]

47 minutes ago, akirby said:

Especially repeat buyers finding features missing that they had in the past.

 

It may have expired today, but last week my brother in SE MI got an additional $2K incentive as a Ford "Loyalty" bonus, for trading-in a Ford product against his new purchase.

 

HRG

[jasonj80]

I don't understand the removal of the Keypad that has been a stay of Fords for more than 40+ years and consistently rated as one of customers favorite feature, from my understanding executives hate it (and bring it up often) it and want it removed from vehicles - they think it is dated and is a waste of money and costs on the warranty side could be completely eliminated if it didn't exist.(Realistically all options fall here, which is why they want everything eliminated)  

It is especially noticeable on vehicles that are marketed as outdoor vehicles that might be outside of cellular range with a phone or for people who want to actually lock their keys and phone in the car when they go Skiing/Kayaking/Hiking or to the Beach the EXACT customer Ford is pitching the Bronco Sport and Maverick at.
 

[akirby]

2 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

I don't understand the removal of the Keypad that has been a stay of Fords for more than 40+ years and consistently rated as one of customers favorite feature, from my understanding executives hate it (and bring it up often) it and want it removed from vehicles - they think it is dated and is a waste of money and costs on the warranty side could be completely eliminated if it didn't exist.(Realistically all options fall here, which is why they want everything eliminated)  

It is especially noticeable on vehicles that are marketed as outdoor vehicles that might be outside of cellular range with a phone or for people who want to actually lock their keys and phone in the car when they go Skiing/Kayaking/Hiking or to the Beach the EXACT customer Ford is pitching the Bronco Sport and Maverick at.
 

When executives dictate things like that it’s a recipe for disaster.  Especially when it’s a feature people would gladly pay extra for.

[Rick73]

10 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Ford really needs to watch the decontenting.  Customers are beginning to notice, and they keep pulling more and more out of various models.

Does that not suggest too much content was previously added, otherwise why would it be there to be pulled out?  Maybe times or conditions changed along the way making decontenting necessary, but it’s likely some of that content shouldn’t have been there to start with.

 

Between inflation and higher interest rates, I personally believe upcoming vehicle models should start with a basic trim making them more affordable; at least until economy improves significantly.

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

When executives dictate things like that it’s a recipe for disaster.  Especially when it’s a feature people would gladly pay extra for.

At the moment, there are no consequences for Execs advocating change against what customers want, perhaps a level of accountability is needed to sharpen certain people’s focus.

[T-dubz]

18 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Does that not suggest too much content was previously added, otherwise why would it be there to be pulled out?  Maybe times or conditions changed along the way making decontenting necessary, but it’s likely some of that content shouldn’t have been there to start with.

 

Between inflation and higher interest rates, I personally believe upcoming vehicle models should start with a basic trim making them more affordable; at least until economy improves significantly.

Only problem with that is no one wants to buy a basic trim vehicle. They’d rather extend their loan to 84 months to be able to afford all the options they want. That or buy used.

[tbone]

12 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Ford really needs to watch the decontenting.  Customers are beginning to notice, and they keep pulling more and more out of various models.

Yes they do, I hate it with a F’n passion.  It is just nickel and diming and it pisses me off.  Nothing like paying more and getting less.  

[akirby]

8 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Does that not suggest too much content was previously added, otherwise why would it be there to be pulled out?  Maybe times or conditions changed along the way making decontenting necessary, but it’s likely some of that content shouldn’t have been there to start with.

 

Between inflation and higher interest rates, I personally believe upcoming vehicle models should start with a basic trim making them more affordable; at least until economy improves significantly.

The features are wanted and needed.  But the executives only look at the cost savings from each option hoping they don’t lose too many sales.  If they only did one or two here and there it wouldn’t be a big deal.  But when you do it over and over it adds up and it’s not good.

[tbone]

17 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

I don't understand the removal of the Keypad that has been a stay of Fords for more than 40+ years and consistently rated as one of customers favorite feature, from my understanding executives hate it (and bring it up often) it and want it removed from vehicles - they think it is dated and is a waste of money and costs on the warranty side could be completely eliminated if it didn't exist.(Realistically all options fall here, which is why they want everything eliminated)  

It is especially noticeable on vehicles that are marketed as outdoor vehicles that might be outside of cellular range with a phone or for people who want to actually lock their keys and phone in the car when they go Skiing/Kayaking/Hiking or to the Beach the EXACT customer Ford is pitching the Bronco Sport and Maverick at.
 

Because they are idiots and could care less what the customer wants when they could add $10 to the bottom line.  As a die hard Ford fan, this behavior has for the first time given me a reason to shop around a little on our last purchases.  Imagine my disgust, as well as my families, when we learned the 2023 Escape we bought eliminated it.  Shame on me for not verifying all the options, but I would have assumed a feature it always had would not have been eliminated for Ford’s benefit.  Come on, just raise the damn price of the vehicle $10 to cover it, and nobody would even think twice about.  It’s just F’n dumb.  
 

If this behavior continues I might actually pull the trigger on something different if the other brand has everything for the same price.  The bottom line is this would have never happened if it were not for this decontenting behavior.  

[silvrsvt]

IMO the keypad thing is the most overrated thing people talk about here-I never use it and it is almost pointless with perimeter key access. 

 

Not to mention that the keypad looks horrible tacked on the outside of the car and I get why Ford wouldn't want to spring for the additional engineering costs for making it integrated with  door like some older products have it. 

 

Plus Ford can always sell it as an dealer add on so you can have your ugly buttons stuck to the side of your car. 

 

With having cell phone as a key, that would make it even more useless. 

[akirby]

48 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

IMO the keypad thing is the most overrated thing people talk about here-I never use it and it is almost pointless with perimeter key access. 

 

We’ve already explained how you’re wrong about it being pointless.  I have a fob and phone as a key on the Nautilus and I still use it a couple times a month.

[jasonj80]

24 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

IMO the keypad thing is the most overrated thing people talk about here-I never use it and it is almost pointless with perimeter key access. 

 

Not to mention that the keypad looks horrible tacked on the outside of the car and I get why Ford wouldn't want to spring for the additional engineering costs for making it integrated with  door like some older products have it. 

 

Plus Ford can always sell it as an dealer add on so you can have your ugly buttons stuck to the side of your car. 

 

With having cell phone as a key, that would make it even more useless. 

Because you don't use it doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile; It is that exact reason why people don't listen to data and how companies fall apart. "I don't think it ,so the data has to be wrong, because if the data isn't wrong it means I am wrong" It is not wrong it is just people want different thing but people and executives don't realize that because they know all.   It has saved me from being locked out of the house because I could get back into the garage and into the house. Weekly I lock my keys/phone in the truck when I go do outdoor activities/gym so I don't have to worry about losing them and not being able to get home; plus with damp tree canopy cell service can be lacking at best or worse your cell phone dies and you can't get in. If it is integrated it looks like it belongs rather than this thing that gets ripped off in an automatic carwash. 

As for sales, it will 100% cost them some; worse lead to existing customers that are bad mounting their new vehicles which drives new customers away who don't even consider Ford. Once you eliminate the features that allowed you to command the price point you did why do people come back? When you can get a Honda/Kia/Mazda for thousands cheaper than I can a Ford with better features and I don't have exclusive features on the Ford why pay it? Which is exactly where I'd be at in the market today - why would I get a new 2023 F150 when I can get more equipment on a Denali or Tundra for a lower cost? 

 

 Some Employees are saying now that Farley/Ford business model is just slowly keep migrating to completely niche/fleet over the next 10 years continue to cut each year and that they will slowly get out of any mass market segment and focus strictly on fleet, Pickups (which for Ford are huge Fleet). Farley has a love affair with Tesla. Besides the Keypad,  -- Moonroofs, cooled seats, memory seat/mirrors, ambient lighting, separate brake/ amber turn signal, Fog lights, exterior mirrors features, heated rear seats, parking sensors, are all going to see cuts as they have perceived high warranty costs and seem that most customers will not care if they are eliminated.

 

Market conditions over the past 3 years have let Farley/Ford to escape a lot of ugly/scrutiny as a leader and sales because "Covid".  I didn't like him from day one, and while I didn't like Fields it looking like he was a much better vision of the company than Farley. Farley is a snake oil salesman finance guy and like any good finance guy running a company into the ground he thinks you can just cost cut your way to more profit.

If I was in the market for a SUV Ford wouldn't be on my list, it is not on my list for a car as they don't sell any and for Trucks (except Maverick) they are $5,000-$10,000 more than the competition. What exactly are they offering a customer anymore? 

[rmc523]

14 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Does that not suggest too much content was previously added, otherwise why would it be there to be pulled out?  Maybe times or conditions changed along the way making decontenting necessary, but it’s likely some of that content shouldn’t have been there to start with.

 

Between inflation and higher interest rates, I personally believe upcoming vehicle models should start with a basic trim making them more affordable; at least until economy improves significantly.

 

No, because competitors have it, and they have it at the same prices (or less) than Ford's now charging WITHOUT the features.  It's not a good look.  And no, most people don't want basic trims.

 

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

IMO the keypad thing is the most overrated thing people talk about here-I never use it and it is almost pointless with perimeter key access. 

 

Not to mention that the keypad looks horrible tacked on the outside of the car and I get why Ford wouldn't want to spring for the additional engineering costs for making it integrated with  door like some older products have it. 

 

Plus Ford can always sell it as an dealer add on so you can have your ugly buttons stuck to the side of your car. 

 

With having cell phone as a key, that would make it even more useless. 

 

I'm sure most don't use it, but plenty do, and plenty love having it - I put my stick on version in the gas tank, since Bronco's wasn't integrated (nor painted when I ordered).

 

I view the keypad a symbolic example.  People love the feature, but because someone wants to save $0.04 per car, they're cutting it.  Do the same with several other features, and customers notice.

[akirby]

The biggest problem is they do it over and over.  Remove a feature or two and most may not notice but do that 2 or 3 times and it becomes obvious not only to repeat buyers but new shoppers comparing to other brands.

[tbone]

It’s very odd. Ford has a tendency to introduce a new model/generation and load it up with all kinds of new features, and then over the course of that generation they remove features. Does that make any sense?  Haven’t they ever heard of continuous improvement, where you add new or improved features to entice repeat and new buyers?   I sincerely don’t get this line of thinking.  

[akirby]

8 hours ago, tbone said:

It’s very odd. Ford has a tendency to introduce a new model/generation and load it up with all kinds of new features, and then over the course of that generation they remove features. Does that make any sense?  Haven’t they ever heard of continuous improvement, where you add new or improved features to entice repeat and new buyers?   I sincerely don’t get this line of thinking.  

Product teams have cost targets and this is how they meet them especially if other costs go up.  It provides a tangible short term benefit and the people making that decision get rewarded.  The problem is that does not account for any drop in sales or ATPs or customer loyalty caused by the decontenting.  It may have no effect or it could be significant but that always happens later and may not affect the cost cutters.  This is all tied to what gets measured and who is held accountable and how.  I remember Ford saying that the product teams in whole were going to be held accountable for the overall results for the life of the vehicle - meaning if there were drops in sales or high warranty costs that would offset any short term gains.  
 

It’s also possible the executives are on board with this approach especially as it supports a 10% margin.  But if they go too far they’ll shoot themselves in the foot and profits will suffer even if margins are up.

[silvrsvt]

20 hours ago, jasonj80 said:

Because you don't use it doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile; It is that exact reason why people don't listen to data and how companies fall apart. "I don't think it ,so the data has to be wrong, because if the data isn't wrong it means I am wrong" It is not wrong it is just people want different thing but people and executives don't realize that because they know all.   It has saved me from being locked out of the house because I could get back into the garage and into the house. Weekly I lock my keys/phone in the truck when I go do outdoor activities/gym so I don't have to worry about losing them and not being able to get home; plus with damp tree canopy cell service can be lacking at best or worse your cell phone dies and you can't get in. If it is integrated it looks like it belongs rather than this thing that gets ripped off in an automatic carwash. 

[/quote]

 

Since I haven't used it in years, can you even lock your keys in the car? I know my Bronco I get a double honk if I leave my keys in the car and close the door and IIRC the SHO wouldn't let me lock my doors from the outside using perimeter access 
 

 Some Employees are saying now that Farley/Ford business model is just slowly keep migrating to completely niche/fleet over the next 10 years continue to cut each year and that they will slowly get out of any mass market segment and focus strictly on fleet, Pickups (which for Ford are huge Fleet). Farley has a love affair with Tesla. Besides the Keypad,  -- Moonroofs, cooled seats, memory seat/mirrors, ambient lighting, separate brake/ amber turn signal, Fog lights, exterior mirrors features, heated rear seats, parking sensors, are all going to see cuts as they have perceived high warranty costs and seem that most customers will not care if they are eliminated.

 

I think automakers are all going to go this route-look at Telsa-the interior is super basic and I'm not sure what options you can get, and even when they where considered luxury-people didn't bitch.

 

The issue is that there is options creep on vehicles for years-what makers could charge extra for now are considered standard and customers have expected them to come with things that where luxury car level things 30 years ago. This why makers are looking at subscription based options for better or worse. 

 

As for their Business model-unfortunately that is playing to Fords strengths...what is the point of coming out with a sedan just to compete in that market when everyone else and not make money on it. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, silvrsvt said:

Since I haven't used it in years, can you even lock your keys in the car? I know my Bronco I get a double honk if I leave my keys in the car and close the door and IIRC the SHO wouldn't let me lock my doors from the outside using perimeter access 

Of course you can - using the keypad.  And with intelligent access it also disables the fob in the vehicle so even if someone breaks the window they can’t start it.  When you unlock with the keypad it re-enables it.

[Dequindre]

My parents had a 2013 Escape and recently bought a 2021 Escape. I was shocked to learn that the SE trim (at least the 2021's) did not have a fold-down center console in the rear seats (to the discomfort of rear seat passengers). That is such an odd thing to remove as standard content and is a fairly visible example of the discontenting that took place between those generations of Escapes. It reflects poorly on Ford (and I say that as someone that has owned Ford, GM, and Chrysler products in recent years).