UAW Demands 46% Pay Hike

[silvrsvt]

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-makes-uaw-contract-offer-2023-08-31/

 

The contract offer would provide hourly employees with 15% guaranteed combined wage increases and lump-sums, and improved benefits over the life of the contract, the company said in a statement.

Wages, including overtime, and lump-sum bonuses for Ford's UAW-represented hourly workers would increase from $78,000 on average in 2022 to $92,000 in the first year of the contract, the automaker said.

 

[Maislebandit]

On 8/26/2023 at 4:30 PM, akirby said:

I respect unions that work with the company to get the best pay and benefits and job security possible but stay market competitive and don’t make outrageous demands and use extortion tactics.  And don’t protect bad workers or stifle productivity in the process.

 

My buddy was in the union before moving to management back in the 80s.  He ran a printer that took 10 minutes to turn on in the morning.  His shift started at 7:30 am.  At 7:20 he would turn on the printer then go get coffee so it was ready to go at 7:30.  His coworkers filed a grievance for doing work outside scheduled hours.  

There certainly are some less than desirable qualities of the union and a small percentage of members that take advantage of liberal policies. 
That said….

As far as outrageous demands and extortion tactics go….

Take into account the raise given back decades ago that was never reinstated as promised when prosperity returned, along with the other concessions to keep Ford out of bankruptcy and then the concessionary contracts that followed. The tier system that pitted employees against one another and made possible 

the prosperous executive pay and benefits over the same period of time. 
 

When you account for these details, the demands become not so outrageous. 
Exercising a legal and legitimately accepted act such as striking when negotiations breakdown is a far cry from extortion. 

Again, where would the UAW membership need to be to just break even from concessions and inflation adjustments from 15 years ago?

[Deanh]

strictly from an outsiders point as Im quite sure theres valid points on both sides of the aisle...and Ill get absolutely crucified for this.... fair is fair but who actually works for who?.........

[Maislebandit]

15 minutes ago, Deanh said:

strictly from an outsiders point as Im quite sure theres valid points on both sides of the aisle...and Ill get absolutely crucified for this.... fair is fair but who actually works for who?.........

I don’t think it’s an outrageous question. Obviously they both have a cards in their hands but it’s company who has the ultimate trump card. 
There may have been a time when the tail was wagging the dog, but I don’t believe that’s what’s happening currently. Just IMO. 

[akirby]

29 minutes ago, Maislebandit said:

There certainly are some less than desirable qualities of the union and a small percentage of members that take advantage of liberal policies. 
That said….

As far as outrageous demands and extortion tactics go….

Take into account the raise given back decades ago that was never reinstated as promised when prosperity returned, along with the other concessions to keep Ford out of bankruptcy and then the concessionary contracts that followed. The tier system that pitted employees against one another and made possible 

the prosperous executive pay and benefits over the same period of time. 
 

When you account for these details, the demands become not so outrageous. 
Exercising a legal and legitimately accepted act such as striking when negotiations breakdown is a far cry from extortion. 

Again, where would the UAW membership need to be to just break even from concessions and inflation adjustments from 15 years ago?

UAW wages were overly inflated for decades because it was a closed market, so as long as all 3 automakers paid the same it didn’t matter.  That doesn’t work in today’s open market.  So those give backs were just correcting past mistakes.

 

If you strike because of unsafe working conditions or unfair business practices, that’s fine.  When you strike because the company won’t give you more money when you’re already making above market wages and benefits, that’s extortion.

[Maislebandit]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

UAW wages were overly inflated for decades because it was a closed market, so as long as all 3 automakers paid the same it didn’t matter.  That doesn’t work in today’s open market.  So those give backs were just correcting past mistakes.

 

If you strike because of unsafe working conditions or unfair business practices, that’s fine.  When you strike because the company won’t give you more money when you’re already making above market wages and benefits, that’s extortion.

That’s your opinion and you’re certainly entitled to it. However, market wages are fluid, decided completely on what they will bear and traditionally patterned off government scale and UNION wages, so how it can be above that is an interesting question. 
Pleas to open a contract and wrest concessions to keep the business alive with the promise of reinstating them when prosperity returns and then reneging on that promise passes the sniff test as unfair business practices to me. 
Labeling that as extortion is dramatic, over the top sensationalism. You do know actual extortion is a crime, yes?

[akirby]

I made my point.  Not going to start a never ending debate.

[Oac98]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

UAW wages were overly inflated for decades because it was a closed market, so as long as all 3 automakers paid the same it didn’t matter.  That doesn’t work in today’s open market.  So those give backs were just correcting past mistakes.

 

If you strike because of unsafe working conditions or unfair business practices, that’s fine.  When you strike because the company won’t give you more money when you’re already making above market wages and benefits, that’s extortion.

I politely disagree and welcome a raise and you’re right no need for debate. 

[akirby]

20 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

I politely disagree and welcome a raise and you’re right no need for debate. 

I agree raises are needed due to inflation.  

[Deanh]

issue is you wages too much it effects the bottom line just as cost of materials has, so to counter, prices get raised AGAIN....where does it end..? The ultimate loser is the consumer...who is kind of an important piece of the puzzle....I would speculate this may just lead to encouraging more and more automation and potential streamlining and layoffs....

Edited September 14, 2023 by Deanh

[Maislebandit]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

I made my point.  Not going to start a never ending debate.

As I said you are entitled to your opinion, I think I made my point as well. You are also free to reply or not reply. 
There is no requirement for participation in discourse nor the need for an explanation to withdraw.  Have a good one!

[HotRunrGuy]

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

issue is you wages too much it effects the bottom line just as cost of materials has, so to counter, prices get raised AGAIN....where does it end..? The ultimate loser is the consumer...who is kind of an important piece of the puzzle....I would speculate this may just lead to encouraging more and more automation and potential streamlining and layoffs....

 

As well as moving more production out of the country,,,,,

 

HRG

[Deanh]

7 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

As well as moving more production out of the country,,,,,

 

HRG

exactly....

[Oac98]

2 hours ago, Deanh said:

issue is you wages too much it effects the bottom line just as cost of materials has, so to counter, prices get raised AGAIN....where does it end..? The ultimate loser is the consumer...who is kind of an important piece of the puzzle....I would speculate this may just lead to encouraging more and more automation and potential streamlining and layoffs....

Lol blame the workers for price hikes that have been going up grossly even before the contract negotiations. GTFOH with that argument so sick of hearing this shit. 

[Oac98]

2 hours ago, Deanh said:

issue is you wages too much it effects the bottom line just as cost of materials has, so to counter, prices get raised AGAIN....where does it end..? The ultimate loser is the consumer...who is kind of an important piece of the puzzle....I would speculate this may just lead to encouraging more and more automation and potential streamlining and layoffs....

Oops I said I wasn’t gonna debate!

[Captainp4]

Honest question, what's to stop Ford or any of the others from hiring someone that wants to work instead of complain at the union plants? Are they required by law to hire union workers?

[akirby]

2 hours ago, Maislebandit said:

As I said you are entitled to your opinion, I think I made my point as well. You are also free to reply or not reply. 
There is no requirement for participation in discourse nor the need for an explanation to withdraw.  Have a good one!

That was me wearing my moderator cap.  We aren’t going to turn this into a back and forth debate that devolves into personal attacks.

[pffan1990]

With less than three hours to go before the midnight deadline, anyone knows the progress of the negotiations so far? Hopefully both sides can reach an agreement where the workers get what they deserve and the automakers can get some of what they want too. But it's interesting that nothing has been mentioned in the media or from the UAW, that I've noticed, whether or not any new American-made vehicles would be introduced, any plant expansions are planned, newly-created jobs, nor anything regarding securing EV production for the next four years.

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, HotRunrGuy said:

As well as moving more production out of the country,,,,,

 

Some people might not be seeing it but China isn't the answer long term or even mid term. They are facing huge demographic issues (age of their population is going to rapidly increase in the next 10-20 years) and the Chinese "leadership" has basically narrowed down to one man and the people who are helping him are just reduced to yes men. 

 

Given what has happened with COVID and the shocks to the supply lines, many people (at least in the USA) don't want to play that game again. The world is deglobalizing to a point because of that. Reshoring is the hot thing at this time. 

 

So unless Ford is willing to spend billions on building 3-4 assembly plants in Mexico to get around the union "issue" here, I just don't see it happening like that. 

[silvrsvt]

10 minutes ago, pffan1990 said:

But it's interesting that nothing has been mentioned in the media or from the UAW, that I've noticed, whether or not any new American-made vehicles would be introduced, any plant expansions are planned, newly-created jobs, nor anything regarding securing EV production for the next four years.

 

You won't hear anything about that till an agreement is up for vote. 

[HotRunrGuy]

48 minutes ago, akirby said:

That was me wearing my moderator cap.  We aren’t going to turn this into a back and forth debate that devolves into personal attacks.

 

For our travels between CHI and DFW, we had a 12V TV/VCR combination that was strapped down on the center console/armrest. We'll be there in 2 more movies,,,,,,

 

HRG

Edited September 15, 2023 by HotRunrGuy

[pffan1990]

I didn't even think about checking Ford's Media site regarding the UAW negotiation progress. Unfortunately, it's not looking good.

 

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023/09/14/ford-update-on-uaw-negotiations.html

[silvrsvt]

From the Rumor mill

Bad news for people still waiting on their Bronco. Michigan assembly has been selected to strike first in the uaw/ford contract dispute.

 

[T-dubz]

39 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

So unless Ford is willing to spend billions on building 3-4 assembly plants in Mexico to get around the union "issue" here, I just don't see it happening like that. 

Maybe not all at once, but I could see them opening at least one plant there in the next few years. Wasn’t it just a few years ago they were going to build a focus plant there until the focus was cancelled? 

[Oac98]

17 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

Maybe not all at once, but I could see them opening at least one plant there in the next few years. Wasn’t it just a few years ago they were going to build a focus plant there until the focus was cancelled? 

Yes San Luis Potosí under the Mark Fields regime.