F-150 Lobo Coming As a More Street Oriented model?

[CurtisH]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

7.3 -  430/475

4th Gen 5.0 (dark horse mustang) - 500/418

 

In a performance vehicle (as opposed to towing) the 5.0 should be way better.

To be fair, the 7.3 is tuned for a big heavy truck and the Dark Horse 5.0 is not.  I suspect the 7.3 could be returned to make 500 hp and still have more torque than the 5.0.  Would it be worth the time and expense?  That’s a very different question. 

[Rick73]

20 hours ago, akirby said:

Definitely not but that doesn’t seem to stop people from listing over them for some strange reason.  Must be the no replacement for displacement crowd.

I don’t have to like something to know others may.  A performance street truck doesn’t make much sense to me, but it does to others which is what matters.

 

The Megazilla is rated over 600 HP and torque, so maybe 500-plus in street legal tune may be possible.  It was just a thought.
 

 

[akirby]

2 hours ago, CurtisH said:

To be fair, the 7.3 is tuned for a big heavy truck and the Dark Horse 5.0 is not.  I suspect the 7.3 could be returned to make 500 hp and still have more torque than the 5.0.  Would it be worth the time and expense?  That’s a very different question. 

It’s not just tuning though.  The basic design favors low rpm towing and hauling and there is only so much tuning you could do.  But more to your point it’s not worth the investment when other options are sitting on the shelf.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

I don’t have to like something to know others may.  A performance street truck doesn’t make much sense to me, but it does to others which is what matters.

 

The Megazilla is rated over 600 HP and torque, so maybe 500-plus in street legal tune may be possible.  It was just a thought.
 

 

I think you missed the context.  There is no real benefit to using Godzilla or Megazilla when the Gen 4 Coyote makes 500 hp and Predator makes 700+ and both are already in production and can literally be dropped right in to a F150.  For street performance you want higher rpm performance whereas Godzilla is designed for more torque at lower rpm.  It’s the answer to a question nobody asked.

 

The only benefit I can see is having a badge with a bigger number.

[GearheadGrrrl]

Tooling up a big block pushrod V8 in this day and age was questionable leap of faith to start with, putting that work truck motor in a "sports" truck is a leap too far.

[T-dubz]

You guys are setting yourself up for disappointment again with all this talk of 500-700+ hp engines. I’d guess this thing will have the same engines as the tremor, the 5.0 and the 3.5 turbo v6. It will be lowered like the article says, and then I’d guess body color panels, unique grille,  maybe some fancy 21-22” wheels, and an interior with leather and suede inserts and some colored stitching. Slap a lobo sticker on the bed and theres your new trim.

Edited August 31, 2023 by T-dubz

[akirby]

42 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

You guys are setting yourself up for disappointment again with all this talk of 500-700+ hp engines. I’d guess this thing will have the same engines as the tremor, the 5.0 and the 3.5 turbo v6. It will be lowered like the article says, and then I’d guess body color panels, unique grille,  maybe some fancy 21-22” wheels, and an interior with leather and suede inserts and some colored stitching. Slap a lobo sticker on the bed and theres your new trim.

Certainly possible but seems like a wasted opportunity not to offer some type of upgraded engine even if it’s just a tuned 3.5lEB or the Ford Performance 5.0 supercharger kit.  Without the engine you’re looking at a $2k option max vs $10k-$15k with the upgrade potentially.

[T-dubz]

33 minutes ago, akirby said:

Certainly possible but seems like a wasted opportunity not to offer some type of upgraded engine even if it’s just a tuned 3.5lEB or the Ford Performance 5.0 supercharger kit.  Without the engine you’re looking at a $2k option max vs $10k-$15k with the upgrade potentially.

I agree, but I’m trying to set the bar low so I’m pleasantly surprised ?

[Captainp4]

12 hours ago, akirby said:

7.3 -  430/475

4th Gen 5.0 (dark horse mustang) - 500/418

 

In a performance vehicle (as opposed to towing) the 5.0 should be way better.

You know I meant in truck trim (even said that). It makes 400/410 in an F150, less than the even more safely tuned and derated 250/350 7.3.

It's a cam and intake swap away from WAY more than the 500/418 dark horse.

I'm all for the dohc engines and love the tech, and even agree the 5.0/5.2 makes more sense for something like this, but let's not act like the 7.3 couldn't be an absolute power house with VERY little work. a Brief google says the godzilla heads flow better stock for stock compared to coyote and have more room to grow with porting. The 7.3 is literally being choked by the cam and intake choice to make low end grunt for truck duty.

[Captainp4]

21 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Yeah, an it also revs like a slug and weighs the truck down. 

I'm seeing 430-460lbs for coyote and around 540 for godzilla. ~100lbs is nothing in a pickup.

It may rev like a slug in a superduty turning a heavy duty transmission and with a "tune" meant to produce low end torque for towing, but again, it's a cam/intake swap away from snapping harder than a yote.

[DeluxeStang]

7 hours ago, T-dubz said:

You guys are setting yourself up for disappointment again with all this talk of 500-700+ hp engines. I’d guess this thing will have the same engines as the tremor, the 5.0 and the 3.5 turbo v6. It will be lowered like the article says, and then I’d guess body color panels, unique grille,  maybe some fancy 21-22” wheels, and an interior with leather and suede inserts and some colored stitching. Slap a lobo sticker on the bed and theres your new trim.

Didn't Ford offer that dealer package recently where you could buy a short cab f-150 with a 5.0 and have it supercharged to around 700 hp? We'll see what happens, but that could have been Ford testing the waters to see how much demand there was for a street performance truck directly from the factory. It would basically be instant profit for them to do something like that. 

[DeluxeStang]

43 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

I'm seeing 430-460lbs for coyote and around 540 for godzilla. ~100lbs is nothing in a pickup.

It may rev like a slug in a superduty turning a heavy duty transmission and with a "tune" meant to produce low end torque for towing, but again, it's a cam/intake swap away from snapping harder than a yote.

Weight doesn't matter as much in a truck, but it always matters period. Weight is the enemy to literally everything on a car, so as an engineer, you want to save as much weight as possible. A hundred pounds isn't the end of the world, but it's certainly not good. 

 

Is it really worth investing millions of dollars into reengineering the 7.3 for performance applications when the 5.0 is right there? Especially considering there's nothing the 7.3 can do that the 5.0 can't do better, cheaper, and more reliably. 

 

Any performance discussion revolving around the 6.8 or 7.3 is immediately irrelevant when some engineer says "But 5.0". It's the best engine ford's ever had, whereas the 6.8/7.3 are just meh, very average all around. 

[DeluxeStang]

6 hours ago, T-dubz said:

I agree, but I’m trying to set the bar low so I’m pleasantly surprised ?

What if it's just stickers that say "This sticker adds 100 hp". 

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

Any performance discussion revolving around the 6.8 or 7.3 is immediately irrelevant when some engineer says "But 5.0". It's the best engine ford's ever had, whereas the 6.8/7.3 are just meh, very average all around. 

 

The 6.8/7.3 are great heavy duty truck engines....nothing else outside of people being stuck in no replacement for displacement crowd for performance isn't anything worth writing home about.

 

Its like Engine Masters on MotorTrend TV-lets test all these different carbs setup and cam set up....I have zero interest in that since I've never owned a car that hasn't had EFI in it. Carbs IMO are useless and a giant pain in the ass otherwise. But hey there is some sort of audience out there for it. But I'd just put a EFI kit on a classic if I had one

 

[Rick73]

Some people like BEV and some people like ICE.  Some people like red cars and some people like blue.  Why the need to tell others what they should like best?  Because you think it’s best?  Best for you maybe but others may have completely different opinions on what they like best, otherwise we would all be driving identical vehicles.

 

I’m personally not “stuck” on displacement but place high value on simplicity, not size; probably far more than most.  For daily driving, given same amount of required power, I’ll take displacement over twin turbos or 7,000-RPM DOHC every time.  If it uses a bit more gas so what, that’s a compromise I’m willing to make.  

 

I know very well the technical advantages of turbos and high RPM engines, particularly for racing, but it doesn’t really affect what I like, as it should be.

[pffan1990]

On 8/30/2023 at 3:04 PM, DeluxeStang said:

On a side note, could this make an appearance at the Detroit auto show in a few weeks? We know Ford is doing two reveals, we know one will be the f-150 refresh, they're being coy about what the other could be. 

 

I see on the Detroit Auto Show (NAIAS) site that the press conference schedule has been posted. Ford has the 'F-150 Fest' set for Tuesday the 12th at 5:30pm. That appears to be the only Ford conference scheduled so far since there's the planned Cadillac, GMC, and Jeep conferences set for the 13th. The F-150 Fest would be a good way to show the new updates, discuss features, etc. and reveal the new variants. We already know the announced 'new hybrid variant' that will be revealed. The second would likely be this Lobo edition. No mention of the 2024 Explorer/Aviator but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be revealed at the show. It could just have a standalone online announcement prior to the show but still be on floor display during the public viewing.

 

https://naias.com/press-conference-schedule/

[akirby]

3 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Some people like BEV and some people like ICE.  Some people like red cars and some people like blue.  Why the need to tell others what they should like best?  Because you think it’s best?  Best for you maybe but others may have completely different opinions on what they like best, otherwise we would all be driving identical vehicles.

 

I’m personally not “stuck” on displacement but place high value on simplicity, not size; probably far more than most.  For daily driving, given same amount of required power, I’ll take displacement over twin turbos or 7,000-RPM DOHC every time.  If it uses a bit more gas so what, that’s a compromise I’m willing to make.  

 

I know very well the technical advantages of turbos and high RPM engines, particularly for racing, but it doesn’t really affect what I like, as it should be.

Nothing wrong with personal preference.  Some people might like a pink truck.  That doesn’t mean Ford should build it.

[mackinaw]

18 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Is it really worth investing millions of dollars into reengineering the 7.3 for performance applications when the 5.0 is right there?.....

 

No, it doesn't, but the 1960's hot-rodder in me would love to bolt a set of high-flow cylinder heads on that 445 cubic inch engine (not going to cal it 7/3L), put in a hot cam, as well as a nice pair of headers.  Shades of 1967!

[Andrew L]

2 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

No, it doesn't, but the 1960's hot-rodder in me would love to bolt a set of high-flow cylinder heads on that 445 cubic inch engine (not going to cal it 7/3L), put in a hot cam, as well as a nice pair of headers.  Shades of 1967!

 

I remember when I lived up north and worked for a different company one of my coworkers was an older guy who was really into hot-rodding and hated anything Ford he was a true to earth diehard GM and Chrysler guy.  Ironic cause he drove a Ford Ranger because "he had no other choice".  Anyway this was around the time Ford was announcing their EcoBoost line for the first time and he caught me as I was walking in and went on a rant about "How stupid is Ford really? How can you even like that company?" We chatted about it and at the time I said hey if they can actually get that kind of power out of a V6 I say go for it! He just shook his head and I said let me guess no replacement for displacement right?  He then shouted to his friend down the hall and said "HEY ANDREW DOES GET IT!!!" lol

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, Andrew L said:

 

I remember when I lived up north and worked for a different company one of my coworkers was an older guy who was really into hot-rodding and hated anything Ford he was a true to earth diehard GM and Chrysler guy.  Ironic cause he drove a Ford Ranger because "he had no other choice".  Anyway this was around the time Ford was announcing their EcoBoost line for the first time and he caught me as I was walking in and went on a rant about "How stupid is Ford really? How can you even like that company?" We chatted about it and at the time I said hey if they can actually get that kind of power out of a V6 I say go for it! He just shook his head and I said let me guess no replacement for displacement right?  He then shouted to his friend down the hall and said "HEY ANDREW DOES GET IT!!!" lol

The funny thing is I bet your friend has no problem with GM and Dodge essentially copying Ford by pivoting to smaller displacement turbocharged engines. He probably hates Ford even though they're the only ones keeping v8s in their muscle cars. 

[joseodiaga4]

9 hours ago, pffan1990 said:

 

I see on the Detroit Auto Show (NAIAS) site that the press conference schedule has been posted. Ford has the 'F-150 Fest' set for Tuesday the 12th at 5:30pm. That appears to be the only Ford conference scheduled so far since there's the planned Cadillac, GMC, and Jeep conferences set for the 13th. The F-150 Fest would be a good way to show the new updates, discuss features, etc. and reveal the new variants. We already know the announced 'new hybrid variant' that will be revealed. The second would likely be this Lobo edition. No mention of the 2024 Explorer/Aviator but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be revealed at the show. It could just have a standalone online announcement prior to the show but still be on floor display during the public viewing.

 

https://naias.com/press-conference-schedule/

I was going to say Explorer but I am not sure anymore:  Explorer refresh pushed back to 2025 model.

https://fordauthority.com/2023/09/ford-explorer-refresh-pushed-back-to-2025-model-year-exclusive/

 

[Andrew L]

19 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

The funny thing is I bet your friend has no problem with GM and Dodge essentially copying Ford by pivoting to smaller displacement turbocharged engines. He probably hates Ford even though they're the only ones keeping v8s in their muscle cars. 

 

Don't work with him anymore but I am willing to bet he changed his tune 100% lol

[pffan1990]

27 minutes ago, joseodiaga4 said:

I was going to say Explorer but I am not sure anymore:  Explorer refresh pushed back to 2025 model.

https://fordauthority.com/2023/09/ford-explorer-refresh-pushed-back-to-2025-model-year-exclusive/

 

Well that's a surprising turn of events all of a sudden if it's true. ? However, a huge caveat needs to be had regarding Ford Authority. Their articles are written as if they have good insiders with 'few sources' but usually turn out wrong. Remember the uproar they recently caused with the so-called 'mid-engined Mustang'?? Even though it was another writer who wrote that Mustang article, Brett Foote's articles really need to be taken with a grain of salt. Personally, I think it may be a good idea to postpone the update to 2025, if it's true. That's so they can get their quality control issues under control during the 2024 model year before re-tooling for the 2025. Perhaps Ford also wants to wait to get the UAW negotiations complete as well.

[silvrsvt]

6 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

No, it doesn't, but the 1960's hot-rodder in me would love to bolt a set of high-flow cylinder heads on that 445 cubic inch engine (not going to cal it 7/3L), put in a hot cam, as well as a nice pair of headers.  Shades of 1967!

 

You do realize that was almost 60 years ago too, right? LOTS has changed in that time. 

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, pffan1990 said:

Personally, I think it may be a good idea to postpone the update to 2025, if it's true. That's so they can get their quality control issues under control during the 2024 model year before re-tooling for the 2025. Perhaps Ford also wants to wait to get the UAW negotiations complete as well.

 

While the refreshed Ford Explorer now won’t launch until the 2025 model year, production of the 2024 model is expected to only last a total of two months – January and February of next year. At the same time, 2024 will represent a carryover year for the popular crossover, with little to no changes in store. Production of the 2025 Explorer is expected to commence in late March 2024, but as is always the case, these dates are subject to change.

 

Um....6 months from now is late? They haven't say anything about when they'll retool the plant (I'd assume it wouldn't take long at all due to it being a refresh) plus whatever happens with the UAW later this month. 

I think this a complete non-issue and just piss poor reporting.