Auto Execs Are Coming Clean, EVs Are Just Not Working...

[Rangers09]

2 hours ago, LSchicago said:

 

BP/Amoco ordered $100 Million dollars worth of Tesla Chargers a couple weeks ago. Soon they will start appearing in stations. 

 

Will be very interesting to see the safety regulations for installing BEV chargers at active gas stations. I expect they will require a minimum clearance of at least 30 - 50 feet from the pumps, vents and tanktops. Electrical devices and hydrocarbon vapours are a dangerous combination, especially when the concentration is between the LEL & UEL.

 

Back in my days on tankers, zero electrical devices were permitted on deck, unless low powered and certified as intrinsically safe.

[silvrsvt]

9 minutes ago, Rangers09 said:

 

Will be very interesting to see the safety regulations for installing BEV chargers at active gas stations. I expect they will require a minimum clearance of at least 30 - 50 feet from the pumps, vents and tanktops. Electrical devices and hydrocarbon vapours are a dangerous combination, especially when the concentration is between the LEL & UEL.

 

 

About a 150 ft

 

https://www.google.com/maps/search/Wawa+near+Six+Flags+Great+Adventure,+Six+Flags+Boulevard,+Jackson+Township,+NJ/@40.1573136,-74.4299682,184m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

 

 

[silvrsvt]

49 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

 

One of the two largest utilities in CT cancelled its contract to participate in an offshore wind project due to the costs rising 2.5-3 times the estimates. 

 

One of the companies that was planning on doing it in NJ pulled out also.

 

 

[silvrsvt]

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

couldnt agree more...place needs an audit for all the wasteful spending here..its absurd..and a LOT of it is this "green deal" BS ....for instance, at the beginning of all this LA Sherrif Dept was mandated to spend X amount of dollars on electrci vehicles...they bought something like 120 BMW I3's...they sat, their only use was apparently for personal chores such as dropping off laundry etc etc ...HUGE waste of taxpayers money...but in their defence, if they had NOT spent the money, next years budget would have been reduced...how asinine is that?. Was over 10 million dollars and most never racked up more than 4 digits or less in mileage

 

when you get a grant of money, you need to spend it all or you need to return it. My wife's home town has a skate rink like a hockey rink built behind a elementary school that has been never used because of that. 

[silvrsvt]

10 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Why change your whole vehicle when you just need to change fuels?

 

because its not "fixing" anything-its like exchanging terminal liver cancer for terminal skin cancer.

 

[Rick73]

28 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

because its not "fixing" anything-its like exchanging terminal liver cancer for terminal skin cancer.

 

No, that’s wrong.  Fuels produced with renewable energy can produce very low CO2 compared to gasoline from fossil fuels.  Besides, none of these solutions “fix” the actual problem.

 

High cost and lack of plentiful cheap renewable energy to manufacture e-fuels is the problem, but that applies to BEVs also; just in different quantities.  BEVs are cheaper than e-Fuels today, but that could change.  The truth is that none of this crap is actually working as proven by fact that CO2 levels continue to go up, as has average global temperature.  The biggest problem we face is that politicians and environmental activist are not scientific by nature, so not only do they not understand the issues, they keep making poor decisions based on information they don’t understand themselves.

[Rick73]

4 hours ago, LSchicago said:

 

Shouldn't be that big of a deal. But necessary to roll with the changes. I'm sure they will install Solar/wind power at most stations getting the upgrades to up their profit margins. Can't make nearly as much money if you have to buy the power. It's a long term investment, but it will pay off. 

BEV Super Chargers rated at 250 kW of power will use as much energy in 15 minutes as my entire house averaged per day in August during Texas record heat wave.  During record heat I averaged just over 60 kWh of energy per day.  Hopefully that helps put in perspective how much energy a few Super Charger stalls would use during a day, not just one charger for 15 minutes.

 

The thing about solar and wind is that you can’t count on energy 100% of time, so BEV charging installation would likely have to pay for connection to grid anyway,  If solar and wind was added on top of that,  cost could get very high fast.

[silvrsvt]

35 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

BEV Super Chargers rated at 250 kW of power will use as much energy in 15 minutes as my entire house averaged per day in August during Texas record heat wave.  During record heat I averaged just over 60 kWh of energy per day.  Hopefully that helps put in perspective how much energy a few Super Charger stalls would use during a day, not just one charger for 15 minutes.

 

The thing about solar and wind is that you can’t count on energy 100% of time, so BEV charging installation would likely have to pay for connection to grid anyway,  If solar and wind was added on top of that,  cost could get very high fast.

 

Some older info

 

The average amount of energy dispensed per charging session in less than 36 kWh.

 

If we compare the number of sessions and the cumulative number of Tesla cars sold, it turns out that on average, Tesla drivers charge close to 3 times per month. The average monthly usage is at around 100 kWh or a full charge of the Long Range Model S/Model X (100 kWh).

 

In the case of charging stations, one station on average delivers some 45 MWh per month (1.5 MWh per day) through around 1,250 sessions (41 per day).

 

Per stall, it is on average over 5.1 MWh per month (170 kWh per day) through 142 sessions (over 4.7 per day).

 

https://insideevs.com/news/367053/july-tesla-superchargers-dispensed-72-gwh/#:~:text=In the case of charging,(over 4.7 per day).

 

The other thing your discounting about Solar and Wind power is they can generate too much power....the issue is finding the right "battery" to be able to store that energy when it's dark out or wind isn't as strong. 

[fordmantpw]

8 hours ago, Deanh said:

what Im apprehensive about there is whos going to tell the Electric suppliers to cap what they bill?...more Govt intervention?...sure doesnt work when it comes to gas, and if you create a dependency and monopoly on electric need, it can, and dare I say WILL lead to outside control and regulation ( no power, no charged car, no lights, no cooking, no hot water, no heating....nothing...)...literally someone can flick a switch and then its "youre on youre own". Not sure I for one am completely comfortable with that.....  

 

Electricity is already highly regulated in most areas.  Here in MO, we have to get a rate case approved before rates can be increased.

[jpd80]

There’s now over 14,300 Mustang Mach Es with dealers nationwide

 

California Route 1……….……983

GT…………………………………….3,998

Premium…………………..…….7,549

Select…………………………..….1,850

[silvrsvt]

So speaking about the general economy-FedEx and UPS are laying off pilots or moving them to regional airlines. Part of the reason renewables companies are pulling out (or at least claiming) of projects are due to interest rates. 
 

So imo we are going to start seeing a broader downturn over the next few months that will impact car sales and other things. 

[LSchicago]

9 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Electricity is already highly regulated in most areas.  Here in MO, we have to get a rate case approved before rates can be increased.

 

Illinois too. Illinois Commerce Commision regulates and approves utility prices. We have the highest amount of Nuclear produced energy in the country. 

[rperez817]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

There’s now over 14,300 Mustang Mach Es with dealers nationwide

 

California Route 1……….……983

GT…………………………………….3,998

Premium…………………..…….7,549

Select…………………………..….1,850

 

If Ford and its dealers promote Mustang Mach-E appropriately, sales of Mach-E in the U.S. may match or exceed sales of Mustang Coupe & Convertible for Calendar Year 2023. At the end of October 2023, Ford sold 31,614 Mach-E and 39,585 Mustang Coupe & Convertible. 

[Rick73]

10 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

Per stall, it is on average over 5.1 MWh per month (170 kWh per day) through 142 sessions (over 4.7 per day). 

 

Thanks for posting.  Data may be from 2019, but shows why “averages” can’t be used for equipment and system designs.

 

If each stall only used 170 kWh per day, that’s an average of 7 kW of power.  Compared to charger capacity of 170~250 kW, it clearly indicates that utilization is very low on “average”.  Common sense alone would suggest most Tesla Super Chargers are more likely to be unused (idle) at 3:00 AM versus 3:00 PM.  Data also suggest that most Tesla are charged at home, or else they are not being driven much on average.  Again, common sense suggest most Tesla owners charge most often at home.

 

The problem I see is that on heavy highway traffic days, like Sunday after Thanksgiving when families return home after visiting Grandma, Super Charger utilization will go up tremendously.  Even if there are no lines of cars waiting to charge, the “average” 7 kW will be meaningless.  On that Sunday power lines, transformers, and grid in general will have to supply Super Chargers with much more power than average.  Fortunately, engineers who install Super Chargers know what’s actually required (we hope).

 

Example of averages not meaning much:

 

Texas grid was overloaded during July and August, but “averaged” over entire year, there is plenty of excess power because Spring and Fall are much lower.  Unfortunately, excess capacity in March doesn’t help July shortage.  Equipment and systems need to handle peak demand, not averages.

 

[rperez817]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

Fortunately, engineers who install Super Chargers know what’s actually required (we hope).

 

That's correct Rick73. Tesla is known for excellent planning, design, and implementation work for all aspects of its Supercharger network, which is why other OEMs are partnering with them.

[Deanh]

14 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

when you get a grant of money, you need to spend it all or you need to return it. My wife's home town has a skate rink like a hockey rink built behind a elementary school that has been never used because of that. 

I think rather than waste excess it shouldnt be penalized for teh forthcoming year...just added to it, would create  a slush fund to adress emergency...( in hindsight would pobably just be wasted anyways....) but theres ridiculous spending that should be adressed everywhere...thees 2 million dollar 2 stall public toilet that was approved in San Francisco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deanh]

12 hours ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Electricity is already highly regulated in most areas.  Here in MO, we have to get a rate case approved before rates can be increased.

I dont trust the SoCal legislators in the slightest...the Toll roads are a classic...started at 25cents and we were told onece paid for they would become free....guess what...they are  ( same road ) now $7 and that will NOT be going away...its a source of revenue. I also laugh my ass off at some of the signs on some of the larger Freeways being worked on..." YOUR Tax dollars at work"....yep so they can fund an additional two lanes on which youlle be CHARGED a toll...LMAO...unreal...same will happen with electric...no matter how much is contributed through solar and the like, the price will ONLY ever increase....

Edited November 10, 2023 by Deanh

[rmc523]

2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

If Ford and its dealers promote Mustang Mach-E appropriately, sales of Mach-E in the U.S. may match or exceed sales of Mustang Coupe & Convertible for Calendar Year 2023. At the end of October 2023, Ford sold 31,614 Mach-E and 39,585 Mustang Coupe & Convertible. 

 

You're also ignoring the fact 2023 was the last year of the outgoing model, and 2024 has the new model, which will bump coup/vert sales well above last year.

[Rick73]

43 minutes ago, Deanh said:

I dont trust the SoCal legislators in the slightest...

I doubt it really matters where it is, basic economics should apply.  When government mandates that more expensive sources of energy be used, the price of electricity must eventually go up.  We will pay a higher cost one way or another.  Texas legislation approved $billions to increase dispatchable generation in part to offset decommissioned capacity, and also increased power demand.  I’m not suggesting whether this is right or wrong, or how much electric bills will go up, but in principle someone has to pay for added capital investment.  Only option I’m aware of to spending the money on upgrades is to plan for power outages. 

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Texas grid was overloaded during July and August, but “averaged” over entire year, there is plenty of excess power because Spring and Fall are much lower.  Unfortunately, excess capacity in March doesn’t help July shortage.  Equipment and systems need to handle peak demand, not averages.

 

This is an area where mass adoption of BEV with V2G capability, such as Ford F-150 Lightning, can promote grid resiliency. Additionally, growth in the installation of non BEV energy storage systems to support grid resiliency has picked up dramatically in recent years. In fact, the heatwaves in Texas (my home state) and California this summer demonstrated the value of these systems. Surprising energy source takes sector by storm after saving heat-battered states this summer: 'On pace for a record year' (thecooldown.com)

[GearheadGrrrl]

37 minutes ago, rperez817 said:

 

This is an area where mass adoption of BEV with V2G capability, such as Ford F-150 Lightning, can promote grid resiliency. Additionally, growth in the installation of non BEV energy storage systems to support grid resiliency has picked up dramatically in recent years. In fact, the heatwaves in Texas (my home state) and California this summer demonstrated the value of these systems. Surprising energy source takes sector by storm after saving heat-battered states this summer: 'On pace for a record year' (thecooldown.com)

Nice theory, but in practice... 

 

Our towns utility wishes we would go away, 'cause then they wouldn't have to maintain a 20+ mile long line that serves only a couple hundred users. If I put up rooftop solar they'll grudgingly accept its 'cause they have too, but no way will they allow significant inputs on their system here. As for EVs as storage to compensate for the sad state of the "grid", with the unreliability of power here we're not about to share the power of our charged batteries when the power may go out for days!

[silvrsvt]

shutting this down because we are just using the same ole personal attacks/issues once again with no resolution.