New Jersey to Require 35% Electric Vehicle Sales by 2026

[akirby]

30 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:

 

There is also a lot of FUD and information biases with EVs...I see it from random social media postings, but the vast majority of people seem to lack any ability to digest any information given to them either.

 

Then add in all the dis/misinformation with special interest groups that are pro and anti EV and you got what we have. 

Echo chambers and confirmation bias abound on social media.

[silvrsvt]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

Echo chambers and confirmation bias abound on social media.

 

But this coming from random people that aren't even interested in cars (as far as I can tell)

[rperez817]

17 hours ago, Rick73 said:

That is very interesting data.  Thanks for posting rperez817.

 

Any chance they have it broken down by EV brands being traded?  I assume that cars being traded would have been around at least a couple of years on average, which would make a large percentage of them be Tesla based on previous sales.  I also assume Tesla makes up the dominant “luxury” data which begs the question whether 70% loyalty is based on “Tesla” or on “luxury”?  Without data by brands it’s hard to say because Tesla has had such a major role in EV sales for years that it probably skews results.

Luxury BEVs probably also have greater range on average, charge faster, and may play role of 2nd or 3rd vehicle more often in wealthier families with home garages that facilitates charging, etc.  If you have more data by brand that helps explain this 50% vs 70% difference I’d love to see it.

 

 

You're welcome Rick73. Excellent point about the fuel type loyalty rate for luxury EV brands being heavily influenced by Tesla. It doesn't look like brand level data is available for free, but S&P Global Mobility's 27th Annual Loyalty awards press release mentioned these tidbits. S&P Global Mobility Recognizes General Motors as Top Manufacturer; Tesla as Top Make in its 27th Annual Automotive Loyalty Awards - Feb 27, 2023 (spglobal.com)

• On top of its 'Overall Loyalty to Make' recognition, Tesla scored repeat wins for 'Highest Conquest Percentage' and "Alternative Powertrain Loyalty to Make.' The combination of an active return-to-market consumer base and majority share of BEV sales were contributors to Tesla's loyalty performance this year. However, the brand's resonance with ethnic consumers was a key driver in its recognition for loyalty improvement and diversity retention.  
• Mercedes-Benz, with the successful launch of the EQS, was recognized this year as the winner for 'Most Improved Alternative Powertrain Loyalty to Make' award, recognizing a brand's improvement in its ability to retain an owner to both the brand and either a BEV or hybrid powertrain. 

 

MANUFACTURER AND MAKE LOYALTY AWARDS	WINNER
Overall Loyalty to Manufacturer	General Motors*
Overall Loyalty to Make	Tesla
Ethnic Market Loyalty to Make	Tesla
Most Improved Make Loyalty	Tesla
Overall Loyalty to Dealer	Subaru
Highest Conquest Percentage	Tesla*
Alternative Powertrain Loyalty to Make	Tesla*
Most Improved Alternative Powertrain Loyalty to Make	Mercedes-Benz

*Repeat winners

[Rick73]

17 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

There is also a lot of FUD and information biases with EVs...I see it from random social media postings, but the vast majority of people seem to lack any ability to digest any information given to them either.

 

Then add in all the dis/misinformation with special interest groups that are pro and anti EV and you got what we have. 

Given that US continues to fall behind in STEM education, does this inability to digest actual information surprise you?  Problem is made worse by many in society today believing they already have all the answers they need, and are unwilling to keep an open mind to other points of view.

[Captainp4]

On 12/4/2023 at 4:48 PM, akirby said:

Echo chambers and confirmation bias abound on social media.

 

On 12/4/2023 at 10:24 PM, silvrsvt said:

 

But this coming from random people that aren't even interested in cars (as far as I can tell)

The amount of made up BS you see about EVs in comment sections is enough to drive you insane (also see it from a select few on this forum). It's really bizarre, can never tell if they actually believe the crap they're saying or if they're trolling. You also see in it year specific truck groups on fb, there's people out there that think their dentside or OBS truck can tow better than a new superduty. Don't get me wrong, I have a driveway full of old Ford trucks that I love tinkering with and customizing (3 dentsides, 3 OBS trucks) I just like the way they look and the quirks that go with them and they could do it in a pinch, but the work trailer is hooked up to the 2010 superduty lol. Also have an order in for the awd cybertruck because I'm sick of emission era diesels and want out of regens and don't even want to start with the piss tank, so there's that too. I don't get why car propulsion is politicized. I mean, it was fun to make fun of a prius because they were lame, but what's not to like about the BEVs of today? They do everything better except range with a trailer and charge time.

[rperez817]

3 hours ago, Captainp4 said:

I don't get why car propulsion is politicized. I mean, it was fun to make fun of a prius because they were lame, but what's not to like about the BEVs of today? They do everything better except range with a trailer and charge time.

 

Good points Captainp4. Some politics are inherent to the automotive industry in general due to the heavily regulated nature of that industry, as the topic of this thread suggests. But you are correct that advancement of vehicle propulsion type toward BEV shouldn't be politicized, because this is something in which governments and automakers have the same overall goal and should be on the same page.

[silvrsvt]

15 hours ago, Captainp4 said:

I don't get why car propulsion is politicized. I mean, it was fun to make fun of a prius because they were lame, but what's not to like about the BEVs of today? They do everything better except range with a trailer and charge time.

 

Its because the political process has become a "team sport" of people arguing over who has the better team. 

 

I'm pretty sure if we had social media back in the 1970s CAFE and the clean air act would have had the same reaction. 

[akirby]

17 hours ago, Captainp4 said:

I don't get why car propulsion is politicized. I mean, it was fun to make fun of a prius because they were lame, but what's not to like about the BEVs of today? They do everything better except range with a trailer and charge time.

Because it’s being pushed and mandated by liberal governments and a lot of conservatives hate that regardless of whether it’s good or bad and they rationalize that hatred by repeating every little problem, flaw or issue as proof EVs don’t work.  Then you have the gearheads that just love internal combustion engines.

 

Social media is nothing but echo chambers perpetuating hate and misinformation.

[OX1]

https://www.shorenewsnetwork.com/2023/11/29/top-new-jersey-democrat-sinks-phil-murphys-2035-gas-car-ban-its-not-happening/

[rperez817]

 

11 minutes ago, OX1 said:

https://www.shorenewsnetwork.com/2023/11/29/top-new-jersey-democrat-sinks-phil-murphys-2035-gas-car-ban-its-not-happening/

 

The "Top New Jersey Democrat" mentioned in that article is State Senator Paul Sarlo. muffin1 clarified Sarlo's comments earlier in the thread (see below), which are opinions on Sarlo's part. New Jersey is moving forward with the adoption of CARB Advanced Clean Cars II on December 18, 2023. Office of the Governor | Murphy Administration Adopts Zero-Emission Vehicle Standards to Improve Air Quality, Fight Climate Change, and Promote Clean Vehicle Choice (nj.gov)

 

On 12/4/2023 at 12:23 PM, muffin1 said:

I believe Sarlo was talking about the timeline for infrastructure to be able to handle, not whether Advanced Clean Car tech was or wasn't going to happen just when was the right time IIRC from the article.

 

[Rick73]

43 minutes ago, akirby said:

Social media is nothing but echo chambers perpetuating hate and misinformation.

Nothing new, just modern version of mob or herd mentality; made worse by requiring no effort to join and with little risk of getting your ass kicked by opposition.

[akirby]

22 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Nothing new, just modern version of mob or herd mentality; made worse by requiring no effort to join and with little risk of getting your ass kicked by opposition.

True but what is new is it connects those people from all over the country and the world in these echo chambers.  And worse it allows misinformation to be spread worldwide in minutes.  It sucks that you can’t trust any news sources today like you could a few decades ago.

[OX1]

2 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

 

The "Top New Jersey Democrat" mentioned in that article is State Senator Paul Sarlo. muffin1 clarified Sarlo's comments earlier in the thread (see below), which are opinions on Sarlo's part. New Jersey is moving forward with the adoption of CARB Advanced Clean Cars II on December 18, 2023. Office of the Governor | Murphy Administration Adopts Zero-Emission Vehicle Standards to Improve Air Quality, Fight Climate Change, and Promote Clean Vehicle Choice (nj.gov)

 

 

 

  Even the article I posted did not say it was not going to happen, just the timeline is not going to happen. And you can "clarify" all you want, but murphy won't be here by 27, and this is the first time a powerful NJ Dem has cast any doubt's 

on the timeline. So I guess we will see

[Deanh]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Because it’s being pushed and mandated by liberal governments and a lot of conservatives hate that regardless of whether it’s good or bad and they rationalize that hatred by repeating every little problem, flaw or issue as proof EVs don’t work.  Then you have the gearheads that just love internal combustion engines.

 

Social media is nothing but echo chambers perpetuating hate and misinformation.

on the money mate...i know most of my agnst is having it rammed down my throat with ZERO choice...flaws aside ( although they have a propensity to be casually swept under thr rug, which i also find annoying....can you tell?.....lol )

[Deanh]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

True but what is new is it connects those people from all over the country and the world in these echo chambers.  And worse it allows misinformation to be spread worldwide in minutes.  It sucks that you can’t trust any news sources today like you could a few decades ago.

so true....weeding through several "outlets" to get some basis of truth and reality has become the norm...Im not sure it hasnt been this way from the get go, but it seems the BS has upped its game in the last few years...doesnt help when certain EXTREMELY important information gets tamped down prior to important election years...and thats been exposed for going on for decades...the Media has become a very important Political tool...rather sad...want to talk Political interference, Media would be the #1 proponent...absolutely inexcusable.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Deanh

[akirby]

10 minutes ago, Deanh said:

on the money mate...i know most of my agnst is having it rammed down my throat with ZERO choice...flaws aside ( although they have a propensity to be casually swept under thr rug, which i also find annoying....can you tell?.....lol )

And that’s the real problem.  On one side you have those who hate them and want them to fail and spread misinformation.  On the other side you have people who love them and ignore all the very real issues like public charging and cold weather range.  Thats why we have so many arguments here.  The truth is always in the middle.  They’re not going away but they won’t be 100% of sales anytime soon.  They work well in many cases especially with home charging but that doesn’t work for everybody.

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

True but what is new is it connects those people from all over the country and the world in these echo chambers.  And worse it allows misinformation to be spread worldwide in minutes.  It sucks that you can’t trust any news sources today like you could a few decades ago.

 

News should remove all opinion, and be NEWS - here are the facts, do with them what you will.

 

It may be "boring," but it will be more informative/educational than "talking head giving their opinion, follow it."

 

Sadly, stories these days are geared toward

1) biggest headline to get the most attention for clicks/revenue, and

2) first to report, which is a BIG problem, because reporting accurately often takes a back seat to being correct with facts because you may not have the story out first

 

And to tie into the echo chamber comments - anybody and everybody can be a "journalist" these days - which, if done right, could be good (i.e. random person could break a big story if they dig enough), but rather it's folks that frankly don't know things spitting out whatever, often based on their own thoughts.

 

.

[ice-capades]

1 hour ago, Deanh said:

so true....weeding through several "outlets" to get some basis of truth and reality has become the norm...Im not sure it hasnt been this way from the get go, but it seems the BShas upped its game in the last few years...doesnt help when certain EXTREMELY important information gets tampoered down prior to important election years...and thats been exposed for going on for decades...the Media has become a very important Political tool...rather sad...want to talk Political interference, Media would be the #1 proponent...absolutely inexcusable.

 

Just my thoughts and opinions... thinking back to the days of watching journalists such as Walter Cronkite, when journalists were actually highly respected and reliable for the information they reported. Mainstream U.S. media has become so politicized that it's become impossible to rely on their reports without spending a lot of time crosschecking other sites to try to determine what the facts are and attempt to filter out the media's political bias. News headlines are so often misleading or completely false related to the actual articles or reports and much of it online is "click bait" to produce higher web statistics to support increased advertising revenue. One of the major news outlets routinely posts completely unrelated items (entertainment and celebrity news) on their business pages or posts as news outdated stories that were reported elsewhere a week or more earlier. Something's wrong when major U.S. news stories are reported by the Daily Mail (UK) and/or Sky News (UK) hours and hours before U.S. media sources and provide more information, etc. The other related matter is the problem of U.S. companies adopting "woke" policies to appease shareholders and others and then facing the backlash for the errors of their ways. If you want to be successful long term, run your business but stay out of politics! Just ask Anheuser-Busch InBev, Disney and others how their new woke policies have worked out!     

Edited December 7, 2023 by ice-capades

[Deanh]

31 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

News should remove all opinion, and be NEWS - here are the facts, do with them what you will.

 

It may be "boring," but it will be more informative/educational than "talking head giving their opinion, follow it."

 

Sadly, stories these days are geared toward

1) biggest headline to get the most attention for clicks/revenue, and

2) first to report, which is a BIG problem, because reporting accurately often takes a back seat to being correct with facts because you may not have the story out first

 

And to tie into the echo chamber comments - anybody and everybody can be a "journalist" these days - which, if done right, could be good (i.e. random person could break a big story if they dig enough), but rather it's folks that frankly don't know things spitting out whatever, often based on their own thoughts.

 

.

accountability for innaccuracy on the public stage promoting BS may/ would help curtail half of the bull$hit. I have no idea how some of these outlets get away with half of the bogus material they publicize..and sometimes it gos on for months/ years...if we didnt learn anything from the COVID kneejerk debate box, or the "Russia Russia Russia" debaucle its rather sad...and what pisses me off...whats the common denominator?....damn Politics, and now the whole BEV subject , to me at least, seems to be going down the same lines....ARG!  

[Deanh]

25 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

 

Just my thoughts and opinions... thinking back to the days of watching journalists such as Walter Cronkite, when journalists were actually highly respected and reliable for the information they reported. Mainstream U.S. media has become so politicized that it's become impossible to rely on their reports without spending a lot of time crosschecking other sites to try to determine what the facts are and attempt to filter out the media's political bias. News headlines are so often misleading or completely false related to the actual articles or reports and much of it online is "click bait" to produce higher web statistics to support increased advertising revenue. One of the major news outlets routinely posts completely unrelated items (entertainment and celebrity news) on their business pages or posts as news outdated stories that were reported elsewhere a week or more earlier. Something's wrong when major U.S. news stories are reported by the Daily Mail (UK) and/or Sky News (UK) hours and hours before U.S. media sources and provide more information, etc. The other related matter is the problem of U.S. companies adopting "woke" policies to appease shareholders and others and then facing the backlash for the errors of their ways. If you want to be successful long term, run your business but stay out of politics! Just ask Anheuser-Busch InBev, Disney and others how their new woke policies have worked out!     

money and political affiliation would be my guess...one only has to look at an outlets owner, and which Political Party they contribute to, to know which way their narrative will err......and THATS sad as people/ voters are easily manipulated, news IS party line propaganda now...apologies if im de-railing this, but in my mind BEVsare in fact a Political Chess piece appeasing and pandering to a certain "block" of voters...

Edited December 7, 2023 by Deanh

[Captainp4]

At the risk of sounding even more like an Elon fanboi, twitter/x seems to be the spot for up to date news with community notes and live discourse/fact checking. Can't stand clickbait headlines and network news talking heads any more.

For one of the other comments, I lean conservative/libertarian and don't like .gov regulations as much as the next guy, but the "mandates" were purely reactionary to try to take some credit for where the market was already going imo. Also a gearhead and they can pry my ICE V8 toys from my cold dead hands and all that, but I still think the BEV tech is super cool. I just don't get why people can't separate the politics from some pretty damn cool technology, even with it's growing pains and current limitations.

[Deanh]

46 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

At the risk of sounding even more like an Elon fanboi, twitter/x seems to be the spot for up to date news with community notes and live discourse/fact checking. Can't stand clickbait headlines and network news talking heads any more.

For one of the other comments, I lean conservative/libertarian and don't like .gov regulations as much as the next guy, but the "mandates" were purely reactionary to try to take some credit for where the market was already going imo. Also a gearhead and they can pry my ICE V8 toys from my cold dead hands and all that, but I still think the BEV tech is super cool. I just don't get why people can't separate the politics from some pretty damn cool technology, even with it's growing pains and current limitations.

remember a BIG part of BEVs gleam is the questionable Global Warming/ Climate change alarmists that deem BEVs as one of the holy grails to Earth reparations.....another set of subjects that Mainstream Media/ GOVT has focused on given its polarizing subject matter...more clicks more Advertisng revenue...screw it if certain subjects that dont support the writers narrative are conveiniently glossed over or end up on the editing floor...

[silvrsvt]

2 hours ago, Deanh said:

remember a BIG part of BEVs gleam is the questionable Global Warming/ Climate change alarmists that deem BEVs as one of the holy grails to Earth reparations.

 

Its low lying fruit that is an "easy" change to make vs other issues like airline travel or other things.

 

Have to look at it holistically vs just laser focusing on the EV parts (which would actually help in some situations with the power grid)

 

I'm sure the same was said by people when CAFE and Clean Air act where enabled, but just maybe a little bit less policial spin on things by publications. 

 

[Rick73]

Musk confirmed during interview that more affordable Tesla will first be built at Gigafactory Texas.  Comments suggest they are getting close (within a couple of years IMO based on what he said) to “Model 2” which may change BEV adoption rate like no other previous BEV.

 

Musk comments seem to be taken out of context.  IMO he refers to advanced manufacturing plant as “mind blowing”, not the car itself.  That’s not to say car may not be great, but I didn’t hear comments to that effect.  Advanced manufacturing process will likely help lower cost below that of competition which I think is his primary goal.

 

“A level of production technology that is far in advance of any automotive plant on earth.”

 

Production will initially take place in Austin, Texas.

 

“The first production line will be at the gigafactory in Texas. Mexico will be the second place [it will be manufactured]. It would take too long to complete the factory in Mexico,” Musk said.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2023/12/05/elon-musk-gives-update-on-25k-tesla-model-2---will-blow-peoples-minds/

[rmc523]

On 12/9/2023 at 11:11 AM, Rick73 said:

Musk confirmed during interview that more affordable Tesla will first be built at Gigafactory Texas.  Comments suggest they are getting close (within a couple of years IMO based on what he said) to “Model 2” which may change BEV adoption rate like no other previous BEV.

 

Musk comments seem to be taken out of context.  IMO he refers to advanced manufacturing plant as “mind blowing”, not the car itself.  That’s not to say car may not be great, but I didn’t hear comments to that effect.  Advanced manufacturing process will likely help lower cost below that of competition which I think is his primary goal.

 

“A level of production technology that is far in advance of any automotive plant on earth.”

 

Production will initially take place in Austin, Texas.

 

“The first production line will be at the gigafactory in Texas. Mexico will be the second place [it will be manufactured]. It would take too long to complete the factory in Mexico,” Musk said.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2023/12/05/elon-musk-gives-update-on-25k-tesla-model-2---will-blow-peoples-minds/

 

In other words, it'll be on the roads in 7-10 years.