Footballfan Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/climate/biden-epa-auto-emissions.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dequindre Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I'm not surprised - this was always a huge liability for him for two reasons: 1. Americans love to shop, and Americans love to shop specifically for the things that they themselves choose. This mandate strikes at the heart of American consumerism. 2. The EV mandates make many rank-and-file union members really nervous (as they should be). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Finally the insanity is abating?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 6 hours ago, Joe771476 said: Finally the insanity is abating?! It will likely be dependent on who wins the next election whether this temporary or longer term. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 2/19/2024 at 7:34 PM, Dequindre said: I'm not surprised - this was always a huge liability for him for two reasons: 1. Americans love to shop, and Americans love to shop specifically for the things that they themselves choose. This mandate strikes at the heart of American consumerism. 2. The EV mandates make many rank-and-file union members really nervous (as they should be). The only metric on EV adoption is on the capitalist system...mandates never work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, tbone said: It will likely be dependent on who wins the next election whether this temporary or longer term. That my determine what type of regulations are passed but I think the public will determine how fast EVs are adopted with or without mandates. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 15 hours ago, twintornados said: The only metric on EV adoption is on the capitalist system...mandates never work How is that? CARB is forcing the issue in several states-its like removing leaded gas or adding catalytic converters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captainp4 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 It was always my opinion that the mandates were reactionary and based on the market was showing at the time. Now that the ramp rate has slowed a little they react again and act like they made the choice.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: How is that? CARB is forcing the issue in several states-its like removing leaded gas or adding catalytic converters. Not really a valid comparison. There is a huge difference between being forced to buy an EV vs a conventional ICE that is modified to run on unleaded gas and uses a catalytic converter. The EV experience/transition is radically different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 5 hours ago, silvrsvt said: How is that? CARB is forcing the issue in several states-its like removing leaded gas or adding catalytic converters. CARB has always been "forcing" the issue, but at the end of the day, market forces rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Texasota said: Not really a valid comparison. There is a huge difference between being forced to buy an EV vs a conventional ICE that is modified to run on unleaded gas and uses a catalytic converter. The EV experience/transition is radically different. I wouldn't say that, the 1970s was known as the malaise era in automotive history, primarily because of those two things and downsizing of vehicles. Vehicle performance took a huge hit vs what it was seeing up till 1973 or so. EVs are arguably a better driving experience wise. Yes Range/charging times can be an issue, but it is also a lifestyle adjustment to a point-and people hate change. Its sort of like going from a landline to a cell phone-the vast majority of older people barely use their cell phones, but younger generations are basically attached to them. There are going to be people who do the same thing with ICE powered cars. Things didn't really get better till the mid 1980s. Only difference now is that you have people being able to share their thoughts on the internet and social media and well.... 1 hour ago, twintornados said: CARB has always been "forcing" the issue, but at the end of the day, market forces rule. If that was the case, Auto makers wouldn't have caved on catalytic converters and other things that CARB has required over the years. California is the largest new car selling market and the other CARB states make up large percentage of the top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: .....If that was the case, Auto makers wouldn't have caved on catalytic converters and other things that CARB has required over the years. California is the largest new car selling market and the other CARB states make up large percentage of the top 10. In the case of catalytic converters...EPA required them, not CARB (but not to be undone, CARB did up the ante which now gives us CARB compliant cat-cons) and when they were introduced, it was the same doom and gloom about the future of the automobile industry as it is now. Either way...we are all breathing a big clean sigh of relief. Edited February 23 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I notice that Germany is removing Electric vehicle subsidies at a time when sales of BEVs appear to be collapsing. So if people were already losing interest in BEVs then this is just another nail in the coffin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 After the revolution we will have only gas guzzling V8s…….for those with no sense of humour, that’s was a joke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 The regulatory regime has gone from being a way to implement bipartisan policy goals to a means to implement the political agenda of the bureaucracy. The EPA didn't dictate catalytic converters back in the '70s. They dictated limits on pollutants and allowed the manufacturers to figure out how to make that happen. They did such a good job that those pollutants became a non-issue anywhere outside of congested areas with atmospheric challenges. But the bureaucracy changed in the intervening years and they were determined to get what they really wanted, which was the end of the ICE. So they declared CO2 a pollutant and decreed that the ICE must die. That has little to do with solving any actual problem. Even if you believe that global warming is as big a problem as some claim then the quickest path to a solution would be plugin hybrids. That solves 90% of the problem with no adaptation from the public required. But that will not do. This is a religious war against the ICE and the affordable personal mobility that it provides. The number one thing that consumers are buying in a vehicle is convenience. BEVs are great if you can park in a garage with a 240V charger and you never travel beyond their range in a day or have to tow or haul anything. But outside of those parameters they are not as convenient as ICE vehicles. People are discovering that as BEVs start to expand beyond their original niche. My boss is a perfect example. He bought a Mach E. His wife loves it. It's great for running around town. He just has to make sure it gets plugged in at night. So when they were planning a cross-country vacation I asked if they were taking the Mach E. No, he looked at it but wasn't willing to deal with the charging hassle. He took their F150 with over 100k on it instead. There is no way an average consumer wants to spend 40 minutes at a charger on a trip. Period. And that's before all the tales of range loss and charger failures in extreme cold this winter. These are city cars for the well-to-do. That's the only market for them outside of BEV enthusiasts. It's no wonder that they are not selling. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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