Ford Delays EV Bronco and Maverick

[jpd80]

56 minutes ago, 2005Explorer said:

Everest is T6. They'd have to run it down the line with Rangers and Broncos to be cost effective.

The interesting part is that the front half of Everest is basically Ranger so a lot of commonality.

Most of the main T6 design team is now gone so apart from planned mid model updates,

there’s nothing new planned. 
 

Importantly every everest sold would be one less Bronco produced and sold, Ford sees it as an either 

/or choice not incremental addition to sales…..that's a big difference and why it won’t be coming anytime soon.

 

40 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I don't have any insider info, I'm just going off of what credible insiders who's seen the finished product have said, people like jmd80 and ExplorerDude. As what why Ford would go ahead with producing them, they don't really have another choice.

This.

It’s cost prohibitive to stop a project this far along but different situation, Ford did that with the CD6 Edge when they determined that it wouldn’t work and exactly why a C2 Edge wasn’t developed for North America, the funds were already wasted on a RWD that was canned.

 

40 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

The current edge isn't competitive, and if Ford wants to bring back a c2 edge or something else, it's going to take a while to put those plans into place. They need something to sell in the meantime even if it isn't going to sell particularly well. 

Total 100% commitment to Mach E to succeed meant that the car that cost $25,000 less to produce

must go to encourage more buyers into Mach E.

 

Also as above, developing a new C2 for Nth America, that ship sales with ill fated CD6 RWD Edge.

If Mach E doesn’t recover, all bets are off, I think Ford will dust off a couple of possibilities but as said,

it all takes time. Maybe a lengthened and widened Escape is a better proposition?

Edited February 24, 2024 by jpd80

[Dequindre]

21 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Why don't they bring the Chinese edge here? They're already planning on importing other models from China, the Chinese edge is hands down the best looking edge we've had in some time. Buyers who wanted a boxy midsized family hauler would be all over this thing. I've mentioned before if the edge doesn't align enough with Ford's new strategy of selling passion products, they could just rebrand this product as the explorer sport or something else with better name recognition. 

 

Edit: Saw your and Oakjay's later comments. I'm surprised you guys don't like how it looks, based off other posts, it seems like you both tend to gravitate towards boxier styling. I agree it's not the most striking or special looking vehicle in the world, but I generally prefer it over the lump that is the current edge design. I find it to be quite attractive, especially in this color. 

.

I honestly think that this design would flop. To American consumers, the Edge has always had a kind of rounded, bulbous, crossover look to it. I say that in a positive way because it has always unapologetically leaned into that aesthetic (and has become a distinctive vehicles because of it) and has been a sales success. 

[jpd80]

6 hours ago, Dequindre said:

I honestly think that this design would flop. To American consumers, the Edge has always had a kind of rounded, bulbous, crossover look to it. I say that in a positive way because it has always unapologetically leaned into that aesthetic (and has become a distinctive vehicles because of it) and has been a sales success. 

Interestingly, when the Edge was first introduced, it’s starting price was similar to that of Explorer

and in fact lived comfortably in that space battery Explorer and Escape, like an enlarged Escape.

IMO, the hatchback styling is exactly why it worked.

[rmc523]

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Interestingly, when the Edge was first introduced, it’s starting price was similar to that of Explorer

and in fact lived comfortably in that space battery Explorer and Escape, like an enlarged Escape.

IMO, the hatchback styling is exactly why it worked.

remember too back in 07, explorer was BOF, so they offered completely different ride characteristics too

[ice-capades]

Oops! I must have clicked on the wrong forum... I thought this forum was about Ford delaying the EV Bronco and Maverick, but the recent discussion is about everything else including tons of speculation!  

[DeluxeStang]

20 minutes ago, ice-capades said:

Oops! I must have clicked on the wrong forum... I thought this forum was about Ford delaying the EV Bronco and Maverick, but the recent discussion is about everything else including tons of speculation!  

Most of these discussions are tying this news into other future product plans Ford might have. Seeing as the original topic of the EV bronco and maverick being delayed is, in itself, speculation that hasn't been confirmed, seeing other speculation about what this means for other future Ford products is slightly off topic, but not overly so. 

[jpd80]

1 hour ago, ice-capades said:

Oops! I must have clicked on the wrong forum... I thought this forum was about Ford delaying the EV Bronco and Maverick, but the recent discussion is about everything else including tons of speculation!  

There’s only so much you can say about vehicles delayed until MY30 or later…..

 

These are the BEV Maverick & Bronco Sport that we’ve known about on the boards for the last 12 months

Ford identifies them internally as CE1 and were developed as a smaller version of GE2, replacing GE (Mach E)

 

Originally these BEVs were to replace Escape & Corsair at Louisville beyond MY28 but thanks  to the UAW,

increase costs probably now mean that Ford has delayed  this project and it  will probably head to Mexico.

 

 

[Oac98]

19 hours ago, akirby said:

Many times focus groups are wrong.  It’s a very small sample size.  You only need to appeal to 100k - 200k buyers a year so you can find a niche.  Especially if it’s something unique.

 

Not saying that’s the case here but I’m sure that’s the thinking if they’re continuing.  Then again that’s probably what Pontiac said about the Aztec…. ?

I hope to God it isn’t hideous like the Aztec lol

[Oac98]

17 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

I don't have any insider info, I'm just going off of what credible insiders who's seen the finished product have said, people like jmd80 and ExplorerDude. As what why Ford would go ahead with producing them, they don't really have another choice. The current edge isn't competitive, and if Ford wants to bring back a c2 edge or something else, it's going to take a while to put those plans into place. They need something to sell in the meantime even if it isn't going to sell particularly well. 

What you’re saying makes perfect sense to me. I can’t wait to see what they look like.

[jpd80]

22 minutes ago, Oacjay98 said:

What you’re saying makes perfect sense to me. I can’t wait to see what they look like.

On the covered spy picture, the squared off rear of the vehicle that everyone see is actually scalloped

when looking from the rear. Don’t get me wrong, the vehicle is not awful, it’s just not what the folks in

the clinics were expecting, a boxy 3-row like Explorer. If people were looking for a large car hatchback

crossover, then these vehicles will delight those folks, I just don’t think Ford is pitching this vehicle

early enough to build up the hype, they’re gonna let it plop on the market and wonder why folks just

don't respond/ say anything. IMO, it says more about Farley than any vehicle shortcoming…..

Edited February 24, 2024 by jpd80

[DeluxeStang]

46 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

On the covered spy picture, the squared off rear of the vehicle that everyone see is actually scalloped

when looking from the rear. Don’t get me wrong, the vehicle is not awful, it’s just not what the folks in

the clinics were expecting, a boxy 3-row like Explorer. If people were looking for a large car hatchback

crossover, then these vehicles will delight those folks, I just don’t think Ford is pitching this vehicle

early enough to build up the hype, they’re gonna let it plop on the market and wonder why folks just

don't respond/ say anything. IMO, it says more about Farley than any vehicle shortcoming…..

I know this is an odd request, but would you mind sketching what the vehicle looks like? It doesn't have to be a perfect sketch, but just something that gives us a rough idea of what to expect.

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:

I hope to God it isn’t hideous like the Aztec lol

Apart from the other image going around, this is all we have to work with at this point in time. Looks smooth. 

[jpd80]

IMG_0038.webp

 

IMG_0039.webp

 

Ford basically took their original idea of a more conventional 3-row Utility

and re-engineered the daylights out of it the way Tesla does to achieve 

the battery efficiency objective.

 

Think

Mach E is to Tesla Y as Ford 3-Row is to Tesla X

styling is differnt but overall shape is similar, in the ballpark.

 

I reckon the Lincoln 3-Row BEV is gonna make German luxury brands cry….

Edited February 24, 2024 by jpd80

[DeluxeStang]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford basically took their original idea of a more conventional 3-row Utility

and re-engineered the daylights out of it the way Tesla does to achieve 

the battery efficiency objective.

 

Think

Mach E is to Tesla Y as Ford 3-Row is to Tesla X

styling is differnt but overall shape is similar, in the ballpark.

 

I reckon the Lincoln 3-Row BEV is gonna make German luxury brands cry….

I've heard the Lincoln three row is quite striking looking, very futuristic. 

[jpd80]

So back on the topic of this thread,

It is my belief that Ford is delaying the BEV Maverick and Bronco Sport because it still hasn’t found a way

to make them affordable and also,  maybe the hybrid  and PHEV versions are what buyers want now.

 

It will be much quicker to bring hybrid/PHEV versions of Maverick and Bronco Sport to market in the next 

year or so, see if they work in a product cycle  before committing to the BEVs later this decade.

Ford is definitely open to doing a lot more with hybrids, maybe push harder with all available C2s?

[DeluxeStang]

58 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

So back on the topic of this thread,

It is my belief that Ford is delaying the BEV Maverick and Bronco Sport because it still hasn’t found a way

to make them affordable and also,  maybe the hybrid  and PHEV versions are what buyers want now.

 

It will be much quicker to bring hybrid/PHEV versions of Maverick and Bronco Sport to market in the next 

year or so, see if they work in a product cycle  before committing to the BEVs later this decade.

Ford is definitely open to doing a lot more with hybrids, maybe push harder with all available C2s?

It seems like they're pushing for a 25-30k price point on those EVs. That's insane, I don't know how they're gonna pull it off. 

[jpd80]

20 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

It seems like they're pushing for a 25-30k price point on those EVs. That's insane, I don't know how they're gonna pull it off. 

And that’s probably also why it’s getting pushed back, scales of economy aren’t there

and costs just keep going up. Better to watch and learn how Tesla executes the 2,

it may have just as much trouble…

Edited February 24, 2024 by jpd80

[akirby]

Affordable EVs obviously require next gen batteries.

[mackinaw]

2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

It seems like they're pushing for a 25-30k price point on those EVs. That's insane, I don't know how they're gonna pull it off. 

 

A $25,000 BEV is now the price of admission into the EV game.  There was an excellent article in the Detroit News on this topic that , unfortunately, is behind a paywall. Luckily, I subscribe.  Some quotes: "As a result, a profitable $25,000 EV has become a golden egg in the industry. Tesla Inc. CEO Elon Musk says the Texas-based company will have an EV at that price point soon. Tavares points to the slim-margin Citroën ë-C3, a hatchback built in Slovakia from the French brand not sold in the United States whose mid trim is about $25,000 (23,300 euro), as an achievement. And Ford Motor Co. CEO Jim Farley says the Dearborn automaker is working as quickly as possible to bring a new low-cost EV platform to market that could support a vehicle priced as low as $25,000."  

 

"To get mainstream customers interested, the $25,000 price tag is a good target, experts say, and it can be attainable.  “The question is for a first-generation $25,000 EV for the U.S. market: What compromises will they have to make?” said Sam Abuelsamid, principal e-mobility analyst at market research firm Guidehouse Inc. “How much range will they have to give up to get to that $25,000, or what features will they have to give up?"

 

"Given such few $25,000 options even among traditional vehicles, the question then arises if there is a market for affordable EVs. Colin Langan, analyst at Wells Fargo & Co., recently questioned whether one exists beyond an alternative for buyers in the used market.  “New car buyers usually buy for the status of it,” he said last month during the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago’s Automotive Insights Symposium. “To get the price point low, you need a really small battery and less weight, and I just don't know that the market is there. It doesn't mean there's not a huge market in China, or there's not a market in Europe. But to do a $25,000 vehicle, it needs to be right now very small."  As a result, executives and experts say to have a slate of desirable and affordable EVs, there need to be changes in the supply chain, advances in manufacturing processes and developments in battery technology such as with cheaper materials."

 

Much more here, if you subscribe:  https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2024/02/21/affordability-auto-industry-25000-dollar-ev/72574561007/

 

 

[DeluxeStang]

14 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

A $25,000 BEV is now the price of admission into the EV game.  There was an excellent article in the Detroit News on this topic that , unfortunately, is behind a paywall. Luckily, I subscribe.  Some quotes: "As a result, a profitable $25,000 EV has become a golden egg in the industry. Tesla Inc. CEO Elon Musk says the Texas-based company will have an EV at that price point soon. Tavares points to the slim-margin Citroën ë-C3, a hatchback built in Slovakia from the French brand not sold in the United States whose mid trim is about $25,000 (23,300 euro), as an achievement. And Ford Motor Co. CEO Jim Farley says the Dearborn automaker is working as quickly as possible to bring a new low-cost EV platform to market that could support a vehicle priced as low as $25,000."  

 

"To get mainstream customers interested, the $25,000 price tag is a good target, experts say, and it can be attainable.  “The question is for a first-generation $25,000 EV for the U.S. market: What compromises will they have to make?” said Sam Abuelsamid, principal e-mobility analyst at market research firm Guidehouse Inc. “How much range will they have to give up to get to that $25,000, or what features will they have to give up?"

 

"Given such few $25,000 options even among traditional vehicles, the question then arises if there is a market for affordable EVs. Colin Langan, analyst at Wells Fargo & Co., recently questioned whether one exists beyond an alternative for buyers in the used market.  “New car buyers usually buy for the status of it,” he said last month during the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago’s Automotive Insights Symposium. “To get the price point low, you need a really small battery and less weight, and I just don't know that the market is there. It doesn't mean there's not a huge market in China, or there's not a market in Europe. But to do a $25,000 vehicle, it needs to be right now very small."  As a result, executives and experts say to have a slate of desirable and affordable EVs, there need to be changes in the supply chain, advances in manufacturing processes and developments in battery technology such as with cheaper materials."

 

Much more here, if you subscribe:  https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2024/02/21/affordability-auto-industry-25000-dollar-ev/72574561007/

 

 

Some solid points. To be frank, when it comes to make affordable EVs like a maverick or bronco sport ev, I feel as though Americans are their own worst enemy. The only way you can offer a 25k EV is by having something that doesn't have a ton of standard equipment and content. But many Americans are too spoiled to accept a car like that. 

 

Just look at the normal gas maverick. Everyone says they want an affordable, decent truck, and Ford delivers. Then people complain when the cheap truck has a plastic interior and the old version of Ford's infotainment system. Everyone says they want more affordable cars, but they don't want to compromise and accept that cheaper cars means fewer gadgets, and less luxurious materials. 

[Oac98]

21 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Apart from the other image going around, this is all we have to work with at this point in time. Looks smooth. 

I’ve seen that, I hope the tarp comes of by the summer or fall. It’s time they show what’s these vehicles actually look like. 

[Oac98]

22 hours ago, jpd80 said:

On the covered spy picture, the squared off rear of the vehicle that everyone see is actually scalloped

when looking from the rear. Don’t get me wrong, the vehicle is not awful, it’s just not what the folks in

the clinics were expecting, a boxy 3-row like Explorer. If people were looking for a large car hatchback

crossover, then these vehicles will delight those folks, I just don’t think Ford is pitching this vehicle

early enough to build up the hype, they’re gonna let it plop on the market and wonder why folks just

don't respond/ say anything. IMO, it says more about Farley than any vehicle shortcoming…..

I agree they’ve been awfully quiet about these vehicles, they’re coming out within the next year to year and change it’s time to get the ball rolling here on showing them. Farley seems like a decent ceo but that’s a whole other discussion.