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Good summary and thanks again for your work with monthly sales tables. A sub 50,000 sales month for F Series would be concerning to Ford but that 172k inventory figure is on the lean side and probably suggests that Ford is pushing the most profitable sales mix it can do. Probably a bit early to yell fire in terms of sales slow down but could become a real issue by Q2 (we’ll see)
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By twintornados · Posted
@BenKohnen in your post, you state as follows; It is not a tax collected by the State, it is a fee regulated by the State - I have told the dealership, if it isn't a tax, I am not paying it" - I don't care if the State regulates it, they can set the fee lower or include in their cost of doing business. Put in general, I will always negotiate every aspect of the sale including the ridiculous fees they want to charge for doing business with them. They will claim, "Bu..bu..but, we have to send someone to the DMV....blah, blah, blah" I tell them that I can go there just as easy for a helluva lot less than their stated "fee"...then I after that is taken care of...time to go and negotiate with the F&I guy over the interest rates, undercoat and paint protection packages, etc....I will ALWAYS negotiate and never just limply accept them as "a cost of doing business"...you want my business? Earn it!! -
No offense taken... been in this line of work long enough that I don't get offended by much. I work for a very up-front dealership... but there's been a couple forays into the other side. They were very brief for me, I couldn't do some of what was required at those stores. The CARS law that was actually passed but not implemented was intended to make buying a car much more transparent. I'm all for that. I suspect it would kill off the slimy dealers and the "I'm going to flip my tie over the numbers on the paperwork" sort of shady crap that used to be out there, and still is in some areas. The wording was a no-go, so last I heard it was getting some revisions before it really goes into effect. It would also legally prevent dealers from showing a vehicle at a price you can't actually buy it for because they're quoting A-Plan, plus stacking several incentive programs that don't combine, or incentives from other areas, etc. The number of ways to manipulate how a vehicle is advertised are awful. A level playing field would certainly help consumers, and clean up a lot of the add-on garbage. In Wisconsin, we are in fact required to disclose on the vehicle and in advertising not only that we have a Doc Fee, but how much it is. Is it listed specifically as part of the price? No, it's listed on the Buyer's Guide on used, and adjacent to the window sticker on new, and at the bottom of every vehicle description page. I'd be totally fine having a requirement that the price had to show the Doc Fee online - it would make it easy to pick out who has a really high one. Part of what I do is making sure we're compliant with the laws, and the intent of the laws. Any new vehicle incentives are what anyone in our ZIP code could walk in and get, nothing tied to any financing, affinity programs, plan prices, or specials that aren't sent to everyone. Certain things simply cannot be included, because they vary from buyer to buyer. What's your tax rate? Do you need new plates or are you transferring? Are you buying a hybrid or EV that changes the plate fee? Your address might as well, because of the variety of county and municipal wheel taxes. Are you adding anything to the vehicle? Do you have any special incentives? On the topic of out the door disclosure, I do have and use a spreadsheet that does the math for me, and includes tax, title, license, and fees, as well as any rebates, accessories requested by the customer, discounts, and such. I go looking for ICI/Private Offers on every new car customer, because I want to get them every incentive I can. When the customer gets numbers from me, they're real world numbers, not "price + TTLF". We all know not every dealer is set up that way, which I find distasteful. Just being honest and up front is so much easier than trying to be sideways.
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By fordmantpw · Posted
When you agree to the price of the car, that should include the doc fees. I understand you have the cost of doing business, but include that in the car price. Don't hit me with it later. I always ask "is that the out the door price" when negotiating. Then I'm covered on "you didn't say anything about doc fees" when we get ready to sign the paperwork. I run a software consulting business. I have to pay for my server, my invoicing system, my email, my domain name, etc. Should I just tack on a fee to every invoice and call it "cost of doing business with you" fee? No, I roll that into my rates. It's BS, and it's just another reason dealerships are, for the most part, sleezy and why I would buy directly from Ford if I could. No offense to you, of course. -
By Motorpsychology · Posted
I suspect F Series and Medium/Heavy will rebound with fleet timing, although that is a steep drop for F's. I also think Ranger will still thrive when the UEV pickup comes out. If anything, It will canibalize Maverick. Hopefully, the March and Quarterlies will have more green cells -
Dealership perspective here. OK, destination & delivery fee is part of the new vehicle window sticker. That one is part of how the manufacturers are managing MSRP without "moving the vehicle price". I just went back through some of the pricing guides, because the F-150 was on my mind recently. A couple samples: 2016: $1195 2018: $1495 2020: $1695 2024: $1995 2025: $2595 2026: $2595 The other fee in discussion is the "Dealer Service Fee", also known as "Document Fee", "Doc Fee" or "BS I'm Not Paying That Take It Off There Fee". In some states it's regulated, so when the state says "a dealer's document fee cannot exceed $999", the dealers will set their Doc Fee at $999. I keep an eye on other dealer's Doc Fees near me. Ours is $299. Most are $349, some are as much as $499. That money isn't just a profit center, it helps absorb some of the fees and expenses every dealer would otherwise just absorb. All the forms we're required to use (and purchase) cost the dealership. There's access and maintenance fees to connect to the state title and registration systems. It's obscene what it costs to operate even a small dealership. Until some of that became part of my department's budget/expense, I had no idea. On the sales floor, I thought the Doc Fee was just something that was added to pad the boss' pocket. Our $299 doesn't cover the expense per car of doing the unshown business. Now, that said, there's the addendum things, what the dealer would call "hard adds". Paint and fabric protection packages already applied to the vehicle - that one's pretty common on something sitting in the showroom, or a Courtesy Transport vehicle. Nitrogen filled tires. Wheel lock kits on every vehicle. Passive anti-theft, or "etch". Window tint already applied - I think I saw that on a southern vehicle as a "climate package". Those are more on the shady side, big-time profit centers that are supposed to be optional. If the dealer has already added it to the vehicle, they're not likely to take it off. If they somehow do, you've spent your negotiation capital on getting that taken off.
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Yeah, that's the calculation I did. Not a chance they'd have been able to price it anywhere near that figure here. Yeah, they launched it and forgot it. I know its styling was polarizing, but it really was a great car.
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By fordmantpw · Posted
My Super Duty will do about 650 miles in those conditions. And it'll haul more people than that thing...you can stack them pretty high in the bed. -
The Flex got minimal effort from Ford's advertising/promotion departments, which was ridiculous: available AWD, massive interior, good (and brand common) powertrains, and huge interior volume coupled with low lift-in height. Mine was magnificent in its time, dragging my guitar and PA gear around as well as 2-5 people.
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By Sherminator98 · Posted
Using the UK pricing, they are $35K after conversion
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