Cashman Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 This is a serious question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 This is a serious question. I think Ford wants to sell about 100,000 Flexes annually. I don't see how this is a problem. If they can sell that many reliable Flexes without rebates to people who LOVE them, then Ford will have earned 100,000 repeat customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 This is a serious question. If they didn't, why would they proceed with making it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 This is a serious question. I would say it has a rather obvious answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 The old GM Detroit philosophy of 400K/year low profit base cars is now defunct. The market has now fragmented into 80K-180K/year niche markets and the Flex is the perfect example of this. Forget 300K/ year, think 100K/year max because niche models like the Flex make more profit with far less copies built. People are usually keen to buy niche car sales, so no incentives are really needed and the profit level is good. Keeping buyer demand high by selling only 100K/year preserves the price and avoids incentives. The accountants philosophy: "Make half the number of cars and double your profit margin." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 The old GM Detroit philosophy of 400K/year low profit base cars is now defunct. The market has now fragmented into 80K-180K/year niche markets and the Flex is the perfect example of this. Forget 300K/ year, think 100K/year max because niche models like the Flex make more profit with far less copies built. People are usually keen to buy niche car sales, so no incentives are really needed and the profit level is good. Keeping buyer demand high by selling only 100K/year preserves the price and avoids incentives. The accountants philosophy: "Make half the number of cars and double your profit margin." in drder to maintain market share we must be more agressive in devleoping niches, and creating more models that to some compete with each other but target different demogrphics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 My comment is similar to JDP's...this thinking of the 400K+ sales, are dying off since it's becoming fragmented... But I'm adding, define "success" ? People think (like penis size) it'll dictate who the winner is, and again, as previously mentioned, this isn't the case any longer. Success depends upon what the automaker is wanting to gain from that vehicle. If it brings in new customers to Ford (conquest sales), if it meets it's sales goals, if it improves Fords image, is it profittable etc. then it's a success. Of course you'll always have the negative crowd (because it's easier to be negative, because being positive actually requires work) where the argument will be, "Well it sold only 100,001, thats not good enough"..."No, it only had 10% conquest sales, thats not good enough", etc.etc. But again, "success" is what the automaker makes it to be. The Camry can be seen as a success in many regards, but for those who conclude a "success" top be profittable, then it would fail since it hardly makes one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 This is a serious question. A. Of course they do. Otherwise why would they commit the millions of dollars necessary to put it into production? The management of the company certainly understands that this is no time to play games with the future of thousands of worker's livelyhoods. The Flex is hardly a crapshoot. The Fairlane Concept was well received and the Flex has been thoroughly researched. Success will be judged against the projected sales and profitability. In as much as the Flex will be an alternative to minivans for many, I think it will certainly be much more successful than the Windstar has been. B. Why would you think otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focalxplosion Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 This is a serious question. I'm curious how you define success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 If Ford wants to survive, they must define success as "does it produce net positive income?". If it only sells 60K units a year but still produces a net positive income, it is a success. If it sells 200K units a year and does not produce a net positive income, it is a failure. If they have kept a tight rein on development costs and produce it in a cost efficient, flexible facility (I hope) I feel that they have a shot with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 This is a serious question. I dont think they expect it...... I think they are praying. Watch for 100K 1st full year but gas prices will drop it like a rock. Right product, wrong time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 If they have kept a tight rein on development costs and produce it in a cost efficient, flexible facility (I hope) I feel that they have a shot with this. Since it is based on existing D3 architecture, I can't see the development costs as being too ridiculous. And OAP is a flex plant, so hopefully production costs will stay in line also as they mix the volume up with the Edge/MKX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 (edited) I dont think they expect it...... I think they are praying. Watch for 100K 1st full year but gas prices will drop it like a rock. Right product, wrong time. I think you're completely wrong. The Flex will be more fuel efficient than either the Expedition and Explorer. As people move away from these vehicles due to gas prices, many of them will move to the Flex. Also, the people that "need a minivan but don't won't to be seen in a minivan" will also be looking at the Flex. I think it's absolutely the right vehicle at the right time and 100K/year is easily attainable. Edited April 9, 2007 by TomServo92 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I dont think they expect it...... I think they are praying. Watch for 100K 1st full year but gas prices will drop it like a rock. Right product, wrong time. do you predict the same for the rest of the V6 7passenger vehicle segment? the Flex is no different - just tries to LOOK different .. it is a minivan in drag ... just like the GM Lambdas. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 do you predict the same for the rest of the V6 7passenger vehicle segment? the Flex is no different - just tries to LOOK different .. it is a minivan in drag ... just like the GM Lambdas. Igor But not as practical. Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex. But,, if I have enough kids to warrant a third row, I'm getting a mini. The walk through arrangement and sliders of a mini make it a no-brainer. I see the Flex going to people who are more image conscious to the point of not wanting a mini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 But not as practical. Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex. But,, if I have enough kids to warrant a third row, I'm getting a mini. The walk through arrangement and sliders of a mini make it a no-brainer. I see the Flex going to people who are more image conscious to the point of not wanting a mini. ...like the millions that buy SUVs/CUVs instead. I think the Flex will do fine, it's extremely distinctive compared to a whole market of ovoid look-alikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I see the Flex going to people who are more image conscious to the point of not wanting a mini. Thats the whole point I know people who are my age, will never be seen dead in a minivan....they are the ones who have SUV's now Anyways, I think a Flex would make an awesome looking Hurst! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 just like the GM Lambdas. I think the biggest problem with the Lambdas (besides the price) is that they look too much like SUV's...which could be a big turn off for people who want to get away from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 But not as practical. Don't get me wrong, I love the Flex. But,, if I have enough kids to warrant a third row, I'm getting a mini. The walk through arrangement and sliders of a mini make it a no-brainer. I see the Flex going to people who are more image conscious to the point of not wanting a mini. That is true - but he predicted collapse of the Flex based on gas prices ... and the minivan Segment is right up there with Flex and Lambdas.. That is why I responded the way I did. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I think you're completely wrong. The Flex will be more fuel efficient than either the Expedition and Explorer. As people move away from these vehicles due to gas prices, many of them will move to the Flex. Also, the people that "need a minivan but don't won't to be seen in a minivan" will also be looking at the Flex. I think it's absolutely the right vehicle at the right time and 100K/year is easily attainable. I hope I am. But I also hope you are wrong with Flex buyers being former Expy and Explorer customers.At least not the bulk of them anyway.If Ford plans on stopping Expy and Nav prod. then its a good thing. Someone mentioned the Flex being around 4500#. Isnt that close to the Edge weight ?? Ford has not shown a good track record with "evolving" their product.(ie., Taurus, Ranger, Expedition,) So Flex may very well get their 100-140 1st full year. But I dont think enough image conscious people will keep the volumes up. At least they could have kept the suicide drs. As far as a minvan replcement, we'll see if a $40K 4 dr. SUV (oops CUV) will be "Flex"ible enough to get many $26-30,000 players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 As far as a minvan replcement, we'll see if a $40K 4 dr. SUV (oops CUV) will be "Flex"ible enough to get many $26-30,000 players. $40K? The Flex will likely start in price just above the Taurus X, which means a base MSRP under $30,000. Sure, fully loaded it will likely surpass $40K, but so will the minivans from Toyota, Chrysler, and Honda. The only minivans still playing solidly in the $26-30K price range are the base Caravans and Koreans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAC_Sparky Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 In as much as the Flex will be an alternative to minivans for many, I think it will certainly be much more successful than the Windstar has been.For those that are forgetful or unaware, we had several years where we sold 275,000+ Windstars. 80 an hour, running 2 10-hour shifts. One can only hope the Flex will be half that "unsuccessful". Since it is based on existing D3 architecture, I can't see the development costs as being too ridiculous. And OAP is a flex plant, so hopefully production costs will stay in line also as they mix the volume up with the Edge/MKX. Tooling is going in as we speak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconman13 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Since it will be based on the D3 you also have to consider it will be AWD capable. This will make it more appealing than many other FWD only models of the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campbell53 Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 (edited) Speaking as a Ford dealer who is expected to sell the Flex.....I cannot wait and wish I had it now. Excitement starts with me (and all Ford dealers) and I could not be more pleased with what is coming. For the folks needing/wanting a Ford minivan product this is a great alternative to the standard minivan fare. Just ask my brother who bought a new Toyota Sienna because Ford is not represented in this segment. How many lost sales have we seen due to this? Also...people who dumped their Explorer/Expedition/Navigator (or GM/Chrysler counterpart) for smaller and more fuel efficient reasons....well they will be back. This is America. We like bigger and you can't cram 1/2 a baseball team into a Honda Fit. So..there is definately a place for this vehicle and I am excited about selling it. This is a huge step in the right direction for Ford. Edited April 9, 2007 by campbell53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackHorse Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I can say with all certainty that I won't be one of the 100 thousand or so a year customers for this Flex. The thing is plain ugly to me. A stretch Scion XB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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