Autoblog Tests the Flex

[suv_guy_19]

RMC, PM me if you need some coaching on how to multi quote.........

 

 

Oh good, does that mean we can start coaching you on civility?

[suv_guy_19]

And by the way, I don't think the Flex is moving off the lots like Ford would of liked.

 

 

Most vehicles aren't moving off the lots the way manufacturers would like right now.

[White99GT]

The price is well in line with most everything else on the market that will seat 7 comfortably, be it a minivan or SUV. It's not like every Flex costs $43K. They start under $30K. You do realize the AVERAGE car costs over $27,000 now, right? I would say the Flex is above average, in both its capabilities as a vehicle and its quality.

 

The two Flexes I have seen at dealerships have stickered for $29,9xx and $30,2xx. They are not overly expensive, considering in 2005 base Freestyles stickered for $27K.

 

The interior is still nice in the base Flex, but as mentioned before the cloth on the seats could be better. Overall though the interior is attractive, comfortable and has a high quality feel. A nice improvement over the Freetstyle/Taurus X.

 

I'm still waiting to see a well optioned version in person though.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Where do you get that idea from? The review was very positive and the negative comments pc is referring to is the comment section. And like Reynolds mentioned they have 2 pennies in their pocket and are idiots.

 

They've just now begun to say positive things about Ford products... and they still manage to get their little digs in at times as well.

 

While some of you disagree with pc no matter what he says I like his perspective and think he makes a lot of good points.

 

I'd appreciate his perspective (and, for that matter, MOST of the negative ones here) if they came from firsthand experience instead of reviews.

 

While the Flex is warming on me I still think the Enclave is very elegant looking and my first preference. Give GM credit they hit a sweet spot in the market and have done a reasonably good job. If it was not them it would be Honda or Toyota.

 

The Enclave is on the more luxurious side, though, so why it gets compared to the Flex I don't quite understand. It'd make more sense if the Acadia and Outlook were brought up, since they too can be priced as high as a Flex. Traverse isn't even out yet, and it still gets compared.

 

Oh, BTW, soon GM will have as many as FIVE of the same vehicle (depending on which brands they shut down and when), since Cadillac is confirmed to be receiving a Lambda. That's another of their problems... cannibalizing each other... a Caddy Lambda AND an Enclave?

 

And by the way, I don't think the Flex is moving off the lots like Ford would of liked.

 

Look at the economy... what is? Plus, I think Ford is glad they didn't set a Toyota-like goal of 250K only to have to revise it later.

[Michael Reynolds]

What makes an Enclave that much better than the Flex (styling aside)?

 

Sure folks could go out and purchase a minivan for $33K, but then again you could go out and purchase a Limited Flex without 30 options for the same amount of money.

 

Fuel economy. Well we all know how tight Duratecs are with low mileage. We also know how automotive publications rag on these vehicles, thus equating to a much lower fuel economy.

 

I've sat in a Flex (yet to drive one), but the seats felt really good. It seemed to me like there was a bit more bolstering than those in our FX.

 

Bottom line, anyone that complains about the Flex simply has not sat in one, driven one or been able to compare it direct competition. Looking at pictures does not tell the whole story.

 

It's amusing how someone how people hand pick what information they would like to use as an argument. Posting quotes from user comments does not support your argument, especially when you argue around here (on a daily basis) how people drink the Ford Kool-Aid. How do you know it's not the reverse on Autoblog?

 

And really complaining about the interior of ANYTHING when you drive a CV? Really?

[Deanh]

my take...just took one to deliver some paperwork, came away favorably impressed....1st impression...SOLID, extremely quiet, seats are THE most comfortable in the entire lineup to date, power...ample...car can FLY when called for, hit the throttle ( not advised ) whilst turning brings the inevitable torque steer...but those bitching shouldn't be driving like a pimple popper anyways, handling, I shouldn't be the judge there as I have been spoiled by a cooper S of which NO car to date that I have driven makes one feel more like a piece of the road, but DEFINITELY superior to comparable cars I HAVE driven, ride....nice, not wallowy or top heavy at all and did I say QUIET.....three issues, and may just be me due to what I drive personally.....right turns to me at least have a blind spot caused by the A pillar....not a big deal, but personally would take a little getting used too, headrests....this tilt the damn things forward to lower the distance between noggin and said headrest is ANNOYING....they are so damn close its like you can fee them....and the second row seats have a seam that to me ( small backside ) feels like the padding is frugal and i'm sitting on framework....that said I am a picky SOB...and if those three issues are all I could find...thumbs up lads!

[FordBuyer]

My bad, I forgot adding perspective and common sense to any thread is called "trolling" around here.

 

You call common sense and perspective giving "quote" that Dodge Caravan gets 26.5mpg in mixed driving? That's about all a 4 cylinder Cobalt will give you in mixed driving with One person aboard, not four and full luggage. Trolling is exaggerating in order to make a negative point. A buddy of mine has a Chrysler minivan and can't even get stated 23mpg on highway with it and it has 6 speed auto trans. And he weighs about 130 pounds and usually only one in vehicle. Put you bullshit posts on another board.

[OldZephyr]

You call common sense and perspective giving "quote" that Dodge Caravan gets 26.5mpg in mixed driving? That's about all a 4 cylinder Cobalt will give you in mixed driving with One person aboard, not four and full luggage. Trolling is exaggerating in order to make a negative point. A buddy of mine has a Chrysler minivan and can't even get stated 23mpg on highway with it and it has 6 speed auto trans. And he weighs about 130 pounds and usually only one in vehicle. Put you bullshit posts on another board.

 

 

I agree. We've had 2 minivans. One was a '97 Grand Caravan with the 3.8L V6. We got around 16-17 in our hilly city, at best 23-24 on the road (and I am not a heavy footed driver). Our '05 Mazda MPV with the 3L V6 only improved on that by 1-2 MPG, if that 17-19 in town, 23-25 on the road. Our '08 Taurus much gets better mileage than the vans, especially on the road.

 

We liked both vans a lot (although the tranny problem on the Chrysler at 75K wasn't too welcome). But I don't see how anyone can get 26.5 mpg in mixed driving with a minivan.

[regfootball]

Except in the cloth seats. They feel like left over burlap bags. Thankfully you can get dealer installed leather for around $1800.

 

What is intereting that they have more than one leather trim available. Some of them have the perforated and others don't. Kind of unusual to have more than one version.

 

having seen and sat in the cloth version of the seats myself, i agree. cheap crappy burlapp is what came to mind.

 

the leather, on the other hand, was exceptional.

[rmc523]

You are doin better rmc...only 5 in a row :beerchug:

 

LOL, thanks....(I'll explain in this next quote)

 

RMC, PM me if you need some coaching on how to multi quote.........

 

I know how to multi-quote (as seen here), but there are a few reasons I don't do it all the time, some better than others: 1) I don't like to quote unrelated thoughts in the same post (which I'm doing in this post), I like to keep each post "related" to itself, so by multi quoting everything, I do not do that. 2) If I'm "catching up" (like now for example) because I was gone, or havent logged on all day, I will generally just hit 'reply' to a single post, because I have a thought/response right then and there and don't wanna lose that thought. That said, I have now gotten to the point where I'm reading a whole page (if my absence has allowed a topic to go that long) and replying on my selected quotes from each page, but that again brings up the point where my post is unrelated to itself. 3) This last one is to a lesser extent, but I don't like loooong single posts (like one of range's posts in his recent global warming topic), although they would take up less room than say 5 in a row, because of signatures, etc.

 

Oh, and BTW, I was gone recently on a trip and missed about a page and a half on the main FMC Discussion Forum page, and I resisted the urge to go do many, many replies to those, so be happy that I am getting better...

 

Oh good, does that mean we can start coaching you on civility?

 

 

I'm still waiting to see a well optioned version in person though.

 

For some reason, my dealer has not ordered many high-end/well optioned models, so I too am waiting to see a well optioned model. The highest optioned model sitting at my dealer is a Limited that has like the Vista Roof, and that's about it.

 

EDIT: I take that back, I have seen a loaded model (except the fridge), which was bought by my soccer coach, but I am still waiting to drive a Limited model.

Edited July 19, 2008 by rmc523

[kyle]

They've just now begun to say positive things about Ford products... and they still manage to get their little digs in at times as well.

 

 

 

I'd appreciate his perspective (and, for that matter, MOST of the negative ones here) if they came from firsthand experience instead of reviews.

 

 

 

The Enclave is on the more luxurious side, though, so why it gets compared to the Flex I don't quite understand. It'd make more sense if the Acadia and Outlook were brought up, since they too can be priced as high as a Flex. Traverse isn't even out yet, and it still gets compared.

 

Oh, BTW, soon GM will have as many as FIVE of the same vehicle (depending on which brands they shut down and when), since Cadillac is confirmed to be receiving a Lambda. That's another of their problems... cannibalizing each other... a Caddy Lambda AND an Enclave?

 

 

 

Look at the economy... what is? Plus, I think Ford is glad they didn't set a Toyota-like goal of 250K only to have to revise it later.

 

They did set a goal-100k units and I talk to a lot of people on this product and not everyone is convinced that Ford will hit that objective. Hell I hope they do more than that, but time will tell. It is a brand new vehicle and should be having more initial success than having sold less that.

[kyle]

What makes an Enclave that much better than the Flex (styling aside)?

 

Sure folks could go out and purchase a minivan for $33K, but then again you could go out and purchase a Limited Flex without 30 options for the same amount of money.

 

Fuel economy. Well we all know how tight Duratecs are with low mileage. We also know how automotive publications rag on these vehicles, thus equating to a much lower fuel economy.

 

I've sat in a Flex (yet to drive one), but the seats felt really good. It seemed to me like there was a bit more bolstering than those in our FX.

 

Bottom line, anyone that complains about the Flex simply has not sat in one, driven one or been able to compare it direct competition. Looking at pictures does not tell the whole story.

 

It's amusing how someone how people hand pick what information they would like to use as an argument. Posting quotes from user comments does not support your argument, especially when you argue around here (on a daily basis) how people drink the Ford Kool-Aid. How do you know it's not the reverse on Autoblog?

 

And really complaining about the interior of ANYTHING when you drive a CV? Really?

 

 

Just so you know I have sat in way more than one. I am in a Ford dealership daily and am aware of sales figures, customer feedback, etc. I am aware of a few glitches but for the most part is is a very well built vehicle.

 

 

I get a chuckle how some of you guys give us a hard time for being critical on a vehicle because we have not driven it, owned one, etc. But only look at pictures. Then the very same people here defend a vehicle based upon the same circumstances!! Very hypocritical:)

 

As far as driving one-I will have my hands on one shortly for a few days. I am driving an 08 Edge and they share a lot of the same mechanicals. I understand it drives fantastic and is very quiet-that is great. The inside trim is miles ahead of my Edge, the seats feel fantastic (they use a slightly different seat if it is leather or cloth), I like the center stack without navigation, center console is very nice, etc. There is a lot to like in the vehicle-but there should be it is $30-45k.

 

Ford needs this vehicle to do well. Their dealer's need this vehicle to do well. I think it will but it is going to take some time.

 

btw. check out FordFlex.com and go to the "customizer" link. Very cool.

Edited July 19, 2008 by kyle

[jpd80]

Well from the other side of the planet, i think the Flex is a great move by Ford,

offering impressive fuel economy in such a large vehicle:

 

FWD: 17 city/24 highway / AWD: 16 city/22 highway

 

I'm curious to know people's expectations regarding a future 2.5 Ecoboost engine.

If Ford decides to offer this engine in the next couple of years,is it fair to assume

that the already good fuel economy figures can be improved even further, 10-20%?

 

A 13% increase would mean:

FWD: 19 city/27 highway / AWD: 18 city/25 highway

 

If this is so, I think the Future of larger vehicles may be better than imagined.

Edited July 19, 2008 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

They did set a goal-100k units and I talk to a lot of people on this product and not everyone is convinced that Ford will hit that objective. Hell I hope they do more than that, but time will tell. It is a brand new vehicle and should be having more initial success than having sold less that.

Last word, from Farley in April was 75-100k units. I believe Farley's exact words were that Flex volumes "could hit 100,000" which is a ways from expecting to sell 100k units year in/year out.

[jpd80]

Last word, from Farley in April was 75-100k units. I believe Farley's exact words were that Flex volumes "could hit 100,000" which is a ways from expecting to sell 100k units year in/year out.

Or the other way to look at it is that Expedition sales have fallen from 181,000 in 2003 to 90,00 last year

and will be lucky to see 60,000 this year. Ford is counting on those buyers being need based sales that

don't just evaporate and are waiting for Ford to deliver an affordable fuel efficient alternative like the Flex.

 

On that basis, it's highly likely that they will achieve their target.

If however, the market has moved on, Flex will be panned by critics as another under achieving D3.

I like the flex and hope it succeeds just to spite the critics.

Edited July 19, 2008 by jpd80

[Michael Reynolds]

I get a chuckle how some of you guys give us a hard time for being critical on a vehicle because we have not driven it, owned one, etc. But only look at pictures. Then the very same people here defend a vehicle based upon the same circumstances!! Very hypocritical:)

 

There's a HUGE difference in being critical, and just pulling random nonsense out of nowhere. Just how there is a big difference about complaining about an interior that you've never sat eyes on, or had a chance to touch. Notice my comments had nothing to do with long term quality or the driving dynamics, items that I can not honestly speak on. So I'm really not sure where you were going with that, or if your statement was aimed at me.

[papilgee4evaeva]

They did set a goal-100k units and I talk to a lot of people on this product and not everyone is convinced that Ford will hit that objective. Hell I hope they do more than that, but time will tell. It is a brand new vehicle and should be having more initial success than having sold less that.

 

That was back in April. Ford most likely knows now that they won't hit that goal since the economy took a turn south since then.

[kyle]

There's a HUGE difference in being critical, and just pulling random nonsense out of nowhere. Just how there is a big difference about complaining about an interior that you've never sat eyes on, or had a chance to touch. Notice my comments had nothing to do with long term quality or the driving dynamics, items that I can not honestly speak on. So I'm really not sure where you were going with that, or if your statement was aimed at me.

 

I Never mentioned long term quality or driving dynamics either. And if being critical is nit picking on why they do some silly things then I am critical about almost any car. I was pointing out a few things on my Edge I cannot stand to my 13 year old son. The steering wheel buttons are all over the place, the lines on the dash make no sense, etc.

The next day we get n the car and he points out the rear door locks stick up-in the front they don't-nit picking.

 

That is how you improve the product. I have seen the new Edge steering wheel and it looks nothing like the current one-thank goodness. Even they must of realized it is a mess. So if I get out here and criticize something (much of it is subjective-much of it is not) that is because I give a damn. Same way I will defend their product in almost all situations. I am a Ford guy through and through but try to remain very objective.

 

And yes I was partially referenceing you because on your previous post it sounded like you were mentioning me and how can some people be critical on a vehicle based upon pictures, etc. If you weren't -sorry. But the comment still stands about as much as people defending the product as being critical of it based upon pictures.

 

And for the record, I really like the Flex. Love the idea of the product, like the design (especially the Funk Master version), power train and packaging. But it is very different and like any vehicle of that nature it is hard to determine how you will feel about it 5 years from now. I asked one of the designers in Vegas how they were going to move the design forward in the next generation. His response was they thought it was going to be one of these "icon" vehicles-like the Mustang. Not sure how that will play out or not. Hopefully it will but time will tell.

 

As for the 100k sales target that is what I have heard as well. But that was before the crash n the past 2 months so who knows where that will go.

[fordmantpw]

The next day we get n the car and he points out the rear door locks stick up-in the front they don't-nit picking.

 

There is a reason for this. The front doors can be opened from the inside when they are locked. The back doors cannot, for safety purposes with children. So, the back door locks need to stick up so you can grab them to unlock them should the power locks fail.

[Michael Reynolds]

I Never mentioned long term quality or driving dynamics either. And if being critical is nit picking on why they do some silly things then I am critical about almost any car. I was pointing out a few things on my Edge I cannot stand to my 13 year old son. The steering wheel buttons are all over the place, the lines on the dash make no sense, etc.

The next day we get n the car and he points out the rear door locks stick up-in the front they don't-nit picking.

 

That is how you improve the product. I have seen the new Edge steering wheel and it looks nothing like the current one-thank goodness. Even they must of realized it is a mess. So if I get out here and criticize something (much of it is subjective-much of it is not) that is because I give a damn. Same way I will defend their product in almost all situations. I am a Ford guy through and through but try to remain very objective.

 

And yes I was partially referenceing you because on your previous post it sounded like you were mentioning me and how can some people be critical on a vehicle based upon pictures, etc. If you weren't -sorry. But the comment still stands about as much as people defending the product as being critical of it based upon pictures.

 

And for the record, I really like the Flex. Love the idea of the product, like the design (especially the Funk Master version), power train and packaging. But it is very different and like any vehicle of that nature it is hard to determine how you will feel about it 5 years from now. I asked one of the designers in Vegas how they were going to move the design forward in the next generation. His response was they thought it was going to be one of these "icon" vehicles-like the Mustang. Not sure how that will play out or not. Hopefully it will but time will tell.

 

As for the 100k sales target that is what I have heard as well. But that was before the crash n the past 2 months so who knows where that will go.

 

Well the fact that one is critical of anything is all fine and dandy, but at one point does it cross the line of absurdity? My points were focused on the fact that yes the vehicle may have flaws, but at one point can those flaws be eliminated when each and every vehicle must turn a profit and meet a certain price parameter.

 

And for the record, IMO Ford doesn't do everything right. I have issues with a lot of things the company does, but at the same time I realize and understand why things are done the way that they are. Is the Flex perfect? No, but neither is anything else on the market either. By no means am I advocating that Ford should rest on any of its laurels because with that comes complacency.

 

All I'm saying is people need to learn how to give credit when credit is do.

 

As far as design, well. That's always a sticking point regardless......Infiniti has taken quite a bit of heat for going a bit conservative with the G35. At the same time there has been a lot of heat with the FX. I had someone the other day look at it in the parking lot and frown, and mention to their friend about how the first gen looked so much better.

[Noah Harbinger]

I dunno, I dislike trolls, so I can't let them go unchallenged.

 

THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT!

 

They're called "Trolls" because they're "trolling" for comments.

 

"Troll: to fish by trailing a baited line along behind a boat"

 

When you comment, you bite.

[suv_guy_19]

THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT!

 

They're called "Trolls" because they're "trolling" for comments.

 

"Troll: to fish by trailing a baited line along behind a boat"

 

When you comment, you bite.

 

 

I know, but sometimes, it just feels good.

[Deanh]

more Flex feedback on the Flex......can the Sony radios....YUCK......wierd, when driving the sound switches ( pulses????? ) between nice and clear and then to muddy treble....checked the DSP settings and speed controled volume...all OK....must read the manual to see if one can defeat the DSP alltogether and see if that remedies a REAL annoyance....and YES I am hypercritical when it comes to audio so I may be pickin straws and i DO have a few anti Sony bones....

[NickF1011]

more Flex feedback on the Flex......can the Sony radios....YUCK......wierd, when driving the sound switches ( pulses????? ) between nice and clear and then to muddy treble....checked the DSP settings and speed controled volume...all OK....must read the manual to see if one can defeat the DSP alltogether and see if that remedies a REAL annoyance....and YES I am hypercritical when it comes to audio so I may be pickin straws and i DO have a few anti Sony bones....

 

Personally, I find speed-sensitive volume to be ridiculously annoying. My Mazda6 has like 6 different settings and still none of them do the job just right. I disabled it entirely. With steering-wheel mounted volume controls, I don't really see it being useful anyway.

[Deanh]

Personally, I find speed-sensitive volume to be ridiculously annoying. My Mazda6 has like 6 different settings and still none of them do the job just right. I disabled it entirely. With steering-wheel mounted volume controls, I don't really see it being useful anyway.

do not think that is the issue...sound fluctuated between nice to muddy....and seemingly only when on the move, the speed sensitive was set at off......and yes I also think that is a dumb feature.....