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dlucarelli

Catastrophic Engine Failure on 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid

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Matthew,

dont want to hijack the thread, but...have heard of 5.4s blowing the factory original plugs, and have you seen the several TSBs for how to attempt to remove the plugs on the newer (fixed in 09) 3V heads...Sorry, but I think someone at Ford messed up- never heard of ANY other manufacturers or ANY other engine family either have plugs blow out, or have plugs snap off when trying to remove from even a 10k mile engine-if the snapping off problem werent a issue Ford would not have had to make special tools to extract the broken bits without pulling the heads(hopefully not leaving any porcelain shards in there).

 

*correction- the 3V issue might just be 90% crappy 2 piece plug design- but again it was a Ford design...the champion one piecers are a better idea, but are a piss-poor quality plug: I bought a set for 112.00 at summit, but after looking at them aint putting that crap in my engine- one of the 8 werent even threaded all the way up. I'm still hoping NGK or Autolite will make a decentquality one piece alternative, but as my cars approaching 30k now, the plugs in it will stay till 100k, unless I get that blower someday before then :)

Tim

 

The 3V plug issue is whole other matter and that is a plug design problem, the 2V mod motor plug issue is not just limited to the 5.4 but all of them.

 

 

And Yes I have seen the plugs pop out of just every body's aluminum heads. Some through improper installation others due to the exact same issue plagueing the mod motors

 

The recomemded torque specs are to low for 100K operation botttom line. They are fine for 40-50K but not 100K. 10ftlbs the recommended torque spec is way to low for that length of operation. Aluminum has the property of cold flowing meaning it flows away from pressure points over time. To low a torque over too long a period of time will allow and the plugs to loosen, add to the fact the constant heating and cooling cycles and it only aggrivates the issue. My V10 when I did the plugs at 93K had 3 plugs that were in just hand tight I literally was able to back 3 of them out by hand without the ratchet. And my Engine is an 04 with twice as many spark plug threads compered to the orginal design. The older mod motors engines never used platinum plugs and never had the plug popping issue as the plugs were changed every 40k or so. So the plugs were never in long enough for that situation to occur. When Ford went to platnums they just exended the plug change intervals. My Old 4.6 had over 650K miles on it when it was parked and never did I once have a spark plug issue. But it also never used platnums so the plugs were changed every 40 to 50K

 

 

My new plugs went in at 18-19 Ftlbs not 10. The spark plug threads on the Mods will take almost 100 Ftlbs before failure even the low thread count heads. The reason for the low torque specs in aluminum heads is to prevent the plugs from seizing in but upping the torque an addtional 8 to 9 ftlbs is enough to keep them from backing out with out letting them sieze in place and that is what they make antiseize for any way.

 

It is not a desgn issue but a specifications oversight. 10Flbs is a pretty standard spec for most all engines large or small independent of manufactruer for machined seat standard type spark plugs in aluminum heads.

 

And the spec is fine for plugs that are changed every 30 to 50K. But when plug life was extended out to the 100 K mark almost no manufactuere looked at the long term effects of the low torque specs in an aluminum head. Now this issue is not just limited to Ford but has plaged other menufactuers engines but not to any where near the same degree of frequency. It was just the luck of the draw with Ford the plug seat and head design and aluminum used in the heads was just the right combination of factors to allow it to happen with greater frequency in the mod motors. You proboly could not duplicate the same situation if you tried too in an engine.

 

 

It is not a desgn issue but an improper torque spec. And like I said it is not just lmited to Ford.

 

 

 

 

Matthew

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then $6500 now is much cheaper than the loss of a customer forever??

 

 

 

in this case, the customer has already stated quite clearly that he is done with Ford forever.

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in this case, the customer has already stated quite clearly that he is done with Ford forever.

I agree that Ford should offer some assistance. However, we don't know the entire story. Ford After warranty assistance has changed recently. Dealers are alloted so much money per quarter. That money is to be used for such instances. It is at the dealers choice what to do with that money. If a customer comes in and has never been at that dealer for anything other than warranty work, then what incentive does the dealer have to exhaust its quartely allowance on said customer? I am not saying its right... I am just stating a fact. The older AWA system was different. You didn't exaclty have a set amount you could use.

That is why I try and tell people to do your maintenance with one dealer and set up a "relationship" for this kind of reason.

 

Again, I am not saying I agree with the system, its just the way it is.

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I agree that Ford should offer some assistance. However, we don't know the entire story. Ford After warranty assistance has changed recently. Dealers are alloted so much money per quarter. That money is to be used for such instances. It is at the dealers choice what to do with that money. If a customer comes in and has never been at that dealer for anything other than warranty work, then what incentive does the dealer have to exhaust its quartely allowance on said customer? I am not saying its right... I am just stating a fact. The older AWA system was different. You didn't exaclty have a set amount you could use.

That is why I try and tell people to do your maintenance with one dealer and set up a "relationship" for this kind of reason.

 

Again, I am not saying I agree with the system, its just the way it is.

 

 

its a system that does make sense.

 

dealers back up and support loyal customers who keep coming back for service and who keep buying new Ford product.

 

makes sense to me. every dolar you spend on lost customer is one less to spend on the loyal customers keeping you in business (this is thinking with a dealer hat on, not a Ford corporate one)

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its a system that does make sense.

 

dealers back up and support loyal customers who keep coming back for service and who keep buying new Ford product.

 

makes sense to me. every dolar you spend on lost customer is one less to spend on the loyal customers keeping you in business (this is thinking with a dealer hat on, not a Ford corporate one)

Bravo boyz!

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Too bad he didn't get vehicle serviced at the dealer.

 

In Sacramento area, the best dealer I have I ever had the pleasure of dealing with is Future Ford (No, I don't work for them).

 

My Mustang's oil changes are every 5k. The "Quick Lube" side gets my car done q-u-i-c-k, the cost is about $3-5 more than a jiffy place, but I know I'm getting the Ford recommended oil/ parts and I not only keep my receipts but I know they keep their records as well. Also, I get a free car wash every time & every 4th oil change is on them!

 

To top it off, I've finally found people I can trust (In my experience, that's saying a lot) and I get good prices on other stuff. As long as this dealership does right-by-me, I'll NEVER need to go anywhere else! And GUESS where I'll be buying my next several cars from?

 

BTW, the dealership is further than other dealers but they are worth the extra gas money!

 

I feel bad for dlucarelli, but maybe taking his car to a good dealer might have prevented this. Dealership mechanics are more familiar with his Escape than a fast lube. They might have been able to catch the problem before it was out of warranty and $6500. Too bad he didn't want to spend the extra $5/oil change.

Edited by joihan777

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I'm just curious to know how the matter has been handled because usually, Ford is extremely interested in failures of this kind as it gives them real world data on what's been happening. I have heard instances in the past where vehicles with just expired warranty were still covered by Ford as a show of good faith.

 

I know that if I had an engine blow up, I'd be really annoyed too but I do know that it does grease the

wheels of sympathy if you have had all your services performed by Ford. From my experiences of Ford dealers, if you show them support then they will go into bat for their customers big time.

 

I think there is an important lesson in this for people buying something that has "new" technology,

stay with dealer servicing.

Edited by jpd80

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I have had my 2.3L in my Focus replaced recently from a bad rod bearing. Not a catastrophic failure, but a failing nonetheless. I brought it in with what sounded like a sticking lifter, came out with a new engine.

 

The car has 128,000 km (80,000mi) on it. Why was it covered?

 

1) Extended warranty It was $1500 to extend the warranty from 3yr/60,000km to 5yr/150,000km. You can hedge your bets all you want but with every bet comes the risk of losing.

 

2) Maintenance records. As long as I have the car under warranty, time permitting, I do the oil changes at the dealership. An oil change at my dealership is $32, and the oil is a synthetic blend (5W-20 for the 2.3Ls) and includes a new filter. Normally I bring in my own oil (full synth) and they knock off $8 (the cost of their bulk). So at $24 (the filter is about $10) == it doesn't make sense for me to floor jack the car, slide underneath, drain the oil, get dirty, put the oil in a container, run the risk of a spill in my garage, etc etc for a measly $14. The only time I do it myself is when (a) I need the oil changed at a time the dealership can't get me in and I'm going on a long unexpected trip or (B) I am doing other work underneath at the same time.

 

So BECAUSE I did the oil changes at the dealer, they have a record of the work done.

 

3) Jiffy Lube -- don't really deal with them here in Canada, but I've heard enough bad things about them to know better. And are they really cheaper than the dealer? Can't see it.

Edited by OAC_Sparky

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p.s.: Does anyone want to purchase a 1965 Ford Mustang 2+2 (fastback)? Less than 100K miles, 289 4V, Hurst shifter, Holly 750 carb. Red with black interior, Concours 2 condition. Sharp!

 

 

dlucarelli,

 

Sorry. My only question is about the 65 2+2. Still for sale? I'll spot you the $6500 to cover the Escape repair bill.

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dlucarelli,

 

Sorry. My only question is about the 65 2+2. Still for sale? I'll spot you the $6500 to cover the Escape repair bill.

Seeing as he is "done" with the Ford Motor Company...maybe he'll trade it for a used <insert foreign car make here> SUV.

 

I am not going to make fun of him (well, maybe a little), but I have to question his tactics.....if I am going to write to the CEO and Chairman of a major corporation, am I going to tell them that I would never buy their product ever again? That is a huge error in judgment. Quick re-hash of my Continental experience....tires on my 2006 Fusion were worn down to the tread bars all the way around at 32K (rotate every 5K) Call Conti and explain my experience, but instead of fuming and raving at them, I tell them how I have had great experiences with Conti and General tires in the past and that while I will buy them again, I am disappointed with the performance of this particular set of Contis'......you guessed it....50% pro-rated adjustment for four new Contis (that now have 45K on them, look and are wearing great...thank you very much).

 

Moral to the story? You get more with honey than you do with vinegar.

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Here is a mileage line for a given Ford product.

 

Please place a mark where you think Ford should be responsible for repairs after the 60K mile warranty expires.

 

Then explain why the guy with the blown engine one mile past your line shouldn't be helped :reading:

 

 

 

60K[_______________________________________________________________________]120K

 

Then I would like to hear why this is a "Special Situation". :hysterical:

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Moral to the story? You get more with honey than you do with vinegar.

 

Right on the money!

 

My story (same moral as yours):

 

My '99 F150 had leaky head gaskets. 20k and I had the right head gasket replaced under warranty. 40k, same thing (still under warranty as I purchased the 60k extended warranty). 65k, out of warranty, same thing happened. This time, I talked with the service manager (he had done the other two replacements) and explained how I was disappointed and would like this to be covered under the warranty. Seems there was a problem with some 5.4 having warped heads from the factory and would cause head gaskets to leak. They replaced the head (as well as a leaky back sliding glass) and it cost me $250. The replacement head was $1500 alone.

 

I was kind and considerate and didn't "demand" anything or get beligerent. They worked with me and I was happy. I would have still continued to buy Fords had they not worked with me because I understand that chit happens.

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With dealerships opening "Quick Lanes" that directly compete with the likes of Jiffy Lube etc...why on earth would you bring your car, truck, or SUV anywhere else...This service will show up on the My Ford website and enable you to track all the work that was done on your car, also allowing you to add your own services too if you do your own oil changes, tire rotations, etc....this owner added information shows up right back to Ford as "owner performed" services.

 

Interestingly, a local GM Store is adding a "Quick Lanes" as the conglomerate that owns the dealership has "Quick Lanes" at both of their Ford stores in the area. The newest "Quick Lanes" is right down on what we call "car alley" where there are plenty of automotive brands to choose from as well as a few of the quickie lube joints too.

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twintornados

 

Sorry to derail the thread but curious as to how many years back the site goes, and does it show all repairs for a VIN done at any and all Ford dealerships? Don't want to enroll if it only goes back a few years or if like O.A.S.I.S. it only shows repairs Ford participated in. Thanks

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twintornados

 

Sorry to derail the thread but curious as to how many years back the site goes, and does it show all repairs for a VIN done at any and all Ford dealerships? Don't want to enroll if it only goes back a few years or if like O.A.S.I.S. it only shows repairs Ford participated in. Thanks

Yes it does, I had registered my Fusion at the site the day I bought the car (7/2006) My girlfriends Escape (purchased 10/2005) was not registered at the time she bought it, I registered it a few weeks ago on the site and every repair, warranty or other wise, that was performed at three different Ford dealers all were there for viewing. If it was worked on at a Ford dealership (includes Quick Lane services)...it will show up on the "My Ford" site.

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Yes it does, I had registered my Fusion at the site the day I bought the car (7/2006) My girlfriends Escape (purchased 10/2005) was not registered at the time she bought it, I registered it a few weeks ago on the site and every repair, warranty or other wise, that was performed at three different Ford dealers all were there for viewing. If it was worked on at a Ford dealership (includes Quick Lane services)...it will show up on the "My Ford" site.

 

 

Thanks for the reply, any idea how many years it goes back?

 

Never mind, I just "enrolled" to see what if anything would show up and under "My Service History" all I get is

 

 

1997 Ford F-150

Track Your Service Records Online

No service records have been entered for this vehicle. It's possible that you may have had services performed at a Ford or Lincoln Mercury dealership that are not displayed here. If you would like to enter those records now, please click on the "Enter Service into Your Log" link.

 

My truck has had services performed by 4 different Ford dealers since I've owned it, the most recent an L.O.F. at Big Valley Ford here in Stockton

But no info on the site.

Edited by Ron W.

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According to this gentleman on another forum, the lube shop used 5w30 oil that didn't meet the Ford specs. He didn't respond to the question about the Lube shop doing an engine flush. The #3 crank bearing was destroyed. The service manager where the repair was done said he could not determine a cause for the bearing failure. There was not an abundance of sludge and the oil that had recently been changed lookd clean.

 

It has been suggested that he contact the lube shop for their warranty coverage, since they were the maintainers of the engine. Makes you wonder how many oil changes with the incorrect oil, were accompanied with not changing the oil filter, starting the engine without any oil in it, doing engine flushes (not recommended by Ford, etc.)

 

It would seem to me that a Ford material and workmanship failure would show up early on. This reeks of improper maintenance.

Edited by dfs

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According to this gentleman on another forum, the lube shop used 5w30 oil that didn't meet the Ford specs. He didn't respond to the question about the Lube shop doing an engine flush. The #3 crank bearing was destroyed. The service manager where the repair was done said he could not determine a cause for the bearing failure. There was not an abundance of sludge and the oil that had recently been changed lookd clean.

 

It has been suggested that he contact the lube shop for their warranty coverage, since they were the maintainers of the engine. Makes you wonder how many oil changes with the incorrect oil, were accompanied with not changing the oil filter, starting the engine without any oil in it, doing engine flushes (not recommended by Ford, etc.)

 

It would seem to me that a Ford material and workmanship failure would show up early on. This reeks of improper maintenance.

 

wow...good luck with the quickielube suit...

 

with the watery 5w20they run today(required for mileage- but also requires miniscule bearing clearances) these shops had better get their acts together and start doublechecking what oil they dump in there, what a shame...the $6515.95 oil change :(

 

sorry but if they used the wrong oil, this whole thread shoulda started with a letter to the GM of the lube shop from a attorney, not to Ford...and would recommend a more tactful stance in it rather than just a 'I hate your company' stance from the beginning.

Edited by ford4v429

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Thanks for the reply, any idea how many years it goes back?

Never mind, I just "enrolled" to see what if anything would show up and under "My Service History" all I get is

My truck has had services performed by 4 different Ford dealers since I've owned it, the most recent an L.O.F. at Big Valley Ford here in Stockton

But no info on the site.

Sorry to hear it....the site works OK for me...bummer :doh:

Edited by twintornados

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Posted (edited)

Pennzoil? But was it Synthetic 5W20? That is what is required in Ford Escape Hybrid vehicles...

Edited by SoulSnatcher
Grammar/Punctuation

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Posted (edited)
On 4/21/2021 at 3:28 AM, SoulSnatcher said:

Pennzoil? But was it Synthetic 5W20? That is what is required in Ford Escape Hybrid vehicles...

 

Hi SS. Although this was a very old thread, just some information to avoid confusion for others: The factory fill is Motorcraft synthetic blend, not full synthetic. Full synthetic motor oil is not required.

 

The required oil fill is simply an oil that meets and/or exceeds the Ford specification/requirement, which is listed in the Specifications section of the Owners Manual. And many/most name brand synthetic blends (and possibly even a few "conventional" oils) meet that specification (although quality "conventional" motor oils are harder and harder to find).

 

So an owner can use a full synthetic if they wish, but it is not required.

 

Good luck.

Edited by bbf2530

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