sullynd Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 They can't call it the Mercury Kuga, people in Boston will get it confused with the Mercury Cougar. It would be fun if they brought the Ka too. Bostonian: I just bought a new Ka. Observer: What kind? Bostonian: It's a Ford Ka. Observer: Which model? Bostonian: The Ka. Observer: Yes, your new car, what model Ford is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 2 down...Local 900 (MAP) just passed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) One of the big selling points of the Escape is that, unlike most of its competition, it still looks like an SUV. It has become a pretty hot item over the past few years, I think Ford needs to make sure that it still has the appeal that it has today. I'm almost 100% sure the Kuga is far better dynamically, but that doesn't mean it will sell better. I say they should keep the Escape name and boxy SUV styling, and sell the European styled Kuga as the next Mercury Mariner. That way, we get both products and a Mercury model that looks substantially different than its Ford sister. That makes some sense. Maybe Ford will design 2 different tophat... one more boxy called Escape and one more sleek called Mariner (Kuga)... sort of like what they did with Galaxy/S-Max. Also, I see no indication that Ford will let the Europeans take charge in redesigning the Escape/Kuga. Why does everyone here assumes so? This is a niche car in Europe but meat and potato product for North America. The fact that Kuga production is moving to the US suggests to me anyway that this may be a North America centric car. Also, let's not forget that the Taiwanese version of Escape actually outsells Kuga as well. Ford sells the Taiwan assembled version of Escape in Russia, China, Australia, and throughout Southeast Asia. Ford Taiwan did an incredible job of adopting what was a purely US focused product to global tastes. I'm sure the Ford Taiwan engineers are sitting at the big boys table this time around on the C2 Escape/Kuga. Edited October 23, 2009 by bzcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM2 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Also, let's not forget that the Taiwanese version of Escape actually outsells Kuga as well. Ford sells the Taiwan assembled version of Escape in Russia, China, Australia, and throughout Southeast Asia. The Ford Escape sold in South East Asia is manufactured at Ford's plant in the Philippines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 The Ford Escape sold in South East Asia is manufactured at Ford's plant in the Philippines. Taiwan also makes it for its market (Taiwan is one of those you need to make it here or else type countries) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM2 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) Taiwan also makes it for its market (Taiwan is one of those you need to make it here or else type countries) Any news on what the replacement of the Asia-Pacific Escape will be? Could giving the old Escape a kinetic design facelift (stop gap model?) be a hint that they really intend to bring in the Kuga to the Asia-Pacific market? The 2009 Ford Escape (Asia-Pacific) which went on sale last year. Edited October 24, 2009 by AM2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 It would be fun if they brought the Ka too. Bostonian: I just bought a new Ka. Observer: What kind? Bostonian: It's a Ford Ka. Observer: Which model? Bostonian: The Ka. Observer: Yes, your new car, what model Ford is it? So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 So true. The Chicago version would be the Ford Kyar, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 That makes some sense. Maybe Ford will design 2 different tophat... one more boxy called Escape and one more sleek called Mariner (Kuga)... sort of like what they did with Galaxy/S-Max. Also, I see no indication that Ford will let the Europeans take charge in redesigning the Escape/Kuga. Why does everyone here assumes so? This is a niche car in Europe but meat and potato product for North America. The fact that Kuga production is moving to the US suggests to me anyway that this may be a North America centric car. Also, let's not forget that the Taiwanese version of Escape actually outsells Kuga as well. Ford sells the Taiwan assembled version of Escape in Russia, China, Australia, and throughout Southeast Asia. Ford Taiwan did an incredible job of adopting what was a purely US focused product to global tastes. I'm sure the Ford Taiwan engineers are sitting at the big boys table this time around on the C2 Escape/Kuga. I hope they do go with 2 tophats. The reason many/most of us are thinking they'll only do one is because of the global vehicle/One Ford initiative, where the vehicles will be the same across the globe. But again, I hope they do 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Any news on what the replacement of the Asia-Pacific Escape will be?Could giving the old Escape a kinetic design facelift (stop gap model?) be a hint that they really intend to bring in the Kuga to the Asia-Pacific market? The 2009 Ford Escape (Asia-Pacific) which went on sale last year. Ford is expected to announce soon that the European Kuga will replace the Escape in 2010, as it seeks a much bigger slice of the compact SUV pie, one of the largest segments in Australia. In contrast to the Escape’s 885 buyers this year, the segment-leading Subaru Forester managed 10,779 sales, so there is massive room for Ford to show improvement. The Australian-market Escape – far and away the oldest passenger car in Ford’s line-up at almost nine years old – has soldiered on with only two relatively minor cosmetic updates since it was launched in Australia in early 2001. Ford switched to sourcing the Escape from Japan to Taiwan with the introduction of the ZC in the middle of 2006, while the ZD facelift from early 2008 has been a single keenly priced four-cylinder automatic model. http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf...257654007D48E6# Bloombergs Kuga LAP article stated that Louisville would produce as many as 80,000 Kuga units a year for export. The number makes sense as it appears the EU Kuga sales will be in the 60,000-80,000 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aeG1WWJ_Pr4s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) I hope they do go with 2 tophats. I think there will be 2 tophats: the Euro Kugo sheetmetal will go to the Lincoln variant (with appropriate Lincoln grill and perhaps a bespoke interior), and the U.S. Escape will indeed retain its boxy heritage with its own sheetmetal. This would make the most sense to me for two reasons: we know Lincoln is supposed to get a vehicle off this chassis, and the Euro Kuga sheetmetal would make the most sense to differentiate it from the Escape (and give incremental economies of scale to the Kuga), and secondly, the Escape's volume allows a business case to be made to give it a separate tophat, which also allows the styling to retain its SUV heritage. A third reason (oops!) would be the dictate that all new Lincolns (going forward from the MKS and MKT) will no longer share sheetmetal with Ford. I think Ford intends to have(retain) parallel lines of CUV's and SUV's; if that is indeed the case, the Escape with SUV styling could be parallel to the Edge (with its CUV cues). The Lincoln 'Kuga' seems a foregone conclusion to give Ford a competitor against Audi's A5, etc.. Edited October 24, 2009 by Harley Lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I think there will be 2 tophats: the Euro Kugo sheetmetal will go to the Lincoln variant (with appropriate Lincoln grill and perhaps a bespoke interior), and the U.S. Escape will indeed retain its boxy heritage with its own sheetmetal. This would make the most sense to me for two reasons: we know Lincoln is supposed to get a vehicle off this chassis, and the Euro Kuga sheetmetal would make the most sense to differentiate it from the Escape (and give incremental economies of scale to the Kuga), and secondly, the Escape's volume allows a business case to be made to give it a separate tophat, which also allows the styling to retain its SUV heritage. A third reason (oops!) would be the dictate that all new Lincolns (going forward from the MKS and MKT) will no longer share sheetmetal with Ford. I think Ford intends to have(retain) parallel lines of CUV's and SUV's; if that is indeed the case, the Escape with SUV styling could be parallel to the Edge (with its CUV cues). The Lincoln 'Kuga' seems a foregone conclusion to give Ford a competitor against Audi's A5, etc.. Well, I think we already know for sure that there's gonna be a MKuga. While I would pretty much guarantee that the Lincoln will have distinct sheetmetal from the Ford, I don't think it would use the Kuga sheetmetal (plus Lincoln cues), as that'd still be sharing sheetmetal with a Ford. I feel the MKuga will be a cross between the MKX and MKT designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I believe the Ford and Mercury will have the same sub-structure but with different sheetmetal. The Lincoln will have a different sub-structure just like the MkT to the Flex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Pioneer, I've had a fair amount of experience overseas, and I have a couple of comments: 1. The U.S. is the only market I have any experience with that denigrates its own auto industry. Every other market I have experience with, ranging from markets in Asia to markets in Europe, takes huge pride in its home auto industry. 2. When the country takes pride in its auto industry, they are more likely to buy the home-branded product. This is especially true in Japan, Korea, and Germany. The Japanese truly believe that there is not a product of any kind in the world that is as good as a Japanese-made product, even if they have to pay top yen. 3. In the U.S. (as you mention), we are complete whores. Whatever is cheapest works for most people, without considering the knock-on effects of buying a garage-full of overseas products and a house full of Chinese crap. Or we have built-in predispositions about auto brands that aren't necessarily tied to reality. 4. Of all the overseas markets, UK is more like the U.S. due in part to the fact it has lost a significant part of its auto industry. 6. The US is the only country whose automotive industry - and other industries - used its customers loyalty as an excuse to produce substandard products for so long that those who sacrificed so much of their money were screwed so badly that they gave up on their own country. All those brilliant economists have practically guaranteed that a company will not really innovate unless the company is either a small upstart (with no other chance of success), or on its death bed. The profits are just so much better when you don't spend anything on R&D! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 6. The US is the only country whose automotive industry - and other industries - used its customers loyalty as an excuse to produce substandard products for so long that those who sacrificed so much of their money were screwed so badly that they gave up on their own country. you're kidding, right? Fiat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 6. The US is the only country whose automotive industry - and other industries - used its customers loyalty as an excuse to produce substandard products for so long that those who sacrificed so much of their money were screwed so badly that they gave up on their own country. British Leyland? Rover? Triumph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 British Leyland? Rover? Triumph? Fiat was a better counterexample - none of those companies is still the top automaker in Britain.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Fiat was a better counterexample - none of those companies is still the top automaker in Britain.... And bad product -did- kill the British car industry. ---- The French car companies got away with selling poorly engineered crap for years too (although I don't know if it's still the case) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Right. And who says that cars have to sell? The Escape is the best selling compact CUV, and your idea is that they can fiddle with the formula with impunity? Let's just base the F150 on the Ranger, and the Mustang on the Fiesta and have done with all of Ford's class leading vehicles at once while we're at it? this is your logic as to why the E-series should never be replaced. The escape must be replaced. there are plenty of options, and ways to do it. Do you base it on the kuga and use it's SWB floor pan or do you use the LWB floor pan of the grand C-max. I would love to see the escape based on the G Cmax's LWB floorpan with a new top hat. even offering a possible 3rd row. From what we know the V6 is dead Four bangers will rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) this is your logic as to why the E-series should never be replaced. The escape must be replaced. there are plenty of options, and ways to do it. Do you base it on the kuga and use it's SWB floor pan or do you use the LWB floor pan of the grand C-max. I would love to see the escape based on the G Cmax's LWB floorpan with a new top hat. even offering a possible 3rd row. From what we know the V6 is dead Four bangers will rule. 1) I didn't know that my opposition to the E-Series replacement was based on its style, or that my opposition to replacement of the Escape was based on its class leading GCWR & GVWR. Thanks for enlightening me to these points, I will, therefore, in acknowledgment of your perpetually accurate summary of my opinions and previous statements, alter them forthwith. :P 2) A 3 row Escape that looks Kugaish might as well be the Edge. 3) V6 can be dead, no problems, with EB4. Edited October 26, 2009 by RichardJensen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 this is your logic as to why the E-series should never be replaced. The escape must be replaced. there are plenty of options, and ways to do it. Do you base it on the kuga and use it's SWB floor pan or do you use the LWB floor pan of the grand C-max. I would love to see the escape based on the G Cmax's LWB floorpan with a new top hat. even offering a possible 3rd row. From what we know the V6 is dead Four bangers will rule. Nobody is arguing that the Escape should not be redesigned/replaced. We all (or at least most of us) support a redesign of it. We are just arguing that the Escape "formula" shouldn't be changed because it's proven to be successful. Does it need a new interior design? Absolutely, I feel it's one of, if not the weakest interior in the lineup. Does it need a new exterior design? Sure. Does that exterior design change need to go from rather boxy and truck-like to swoopy and Kuga-like? No, I don't at all think so. As I've said before, the market has shown that it's willing to support that style of vehicle, so why not continue down that path? Now, if sales were dropping and it was not competitive, I'd vote for the change, but that's not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Nobody is arguing that the Escape should not be redesigned/replaced. We all (or at least most of us) support a redesign of it. We are just arguing that the Escape "formula" shouldn't be changed because it's proven to be successful. Does it need a new interior design? Absolutely, I feel it's one of, if not the weakest interior in the lineup. Does it need a new exterior design? Sure. Does that exterior design change need to go from rather boxy and truck-like to swoopy and Kuga-like? No, I don't at all think so. As I've said before, the market has shown that it's willing to support that style of vehicle, so why not continue down that path? Now, if sales were dropping and it was not competitive, I'd vote for the change, but that's not the case. I'd argue that the escape should be more like the new explorer, than the Kuga. Kuga may fit better as a Lincoln or mercury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Here's wescoent's take from the same topic over @ GMI. Sounds right on to me. What I do know: Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln will all be getting versions of this vehicle. Ford views this segment as being a high-volume, high-profit area, and thus of critical importance to 'get right'. I don't know anything else for sure. As for my personal opinion, knowing Mark Fields and Derrick Kuzak as well as I do... I'd say that the US Escape will get unique sheetmetal, closer to the Explorer than the Kuga, and it will continue to be pushed as a "Baby Explorer". Ford has seen a lot of success with the boxier SUV-like formula, but otherwise, it will likely share everything under the skin. The Mercury version may drop the Mariner name for "Kuga", and will share virtually ALL sheetmetal with the European Kuga, since Mercury is a more progressive brand, or so Ford wants them to be. The Ford and Mercury will share interiors. The Lincoln version will get a unique interior and exterior, and have its chassis revised to go toe to toe with the BMW X3 and Mercedes GLK on driving dynamics, and likely be available only with a larger engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Here's wescoent's take from the same topic over @ GMI. Sounds right on to me. I sure as hell hope they don't do the Mercury Kuga LOL...thought would be neat to see someone put those badges on one...like the Ford Maverick Is there any reason why Wescont doesn't post here as much as he did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Is there any reason why Wescont doesn't post here as much as he did? I wonder that myself... igor is also very active over on GMI, but hasn't posted here in forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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