Falcon and Mustang to Share Components

[ZanatWork]

Here's something I found over at Motor Trend:

 

This oughta do it...

 

I think that'll work. Basically, the statement that the "Falcon cannot go on alone" was misinterpreted by the panic society to mean it was doomed, whereas it'll finally be co-engineered with the next 'Stand, which is logic we've all been screaming for since...geez, I can't even remember.

[ausrutherford]

Here's something I found over at Motor Trend:

 

This oughta do it...

 

I think that'll work. Basically, the statement that the "Falcon cannot go on alone" was misinterpreted by the panic society to mean it was doomed, whereas it'll finally be co-engineered with the next 'Stand, which is logic we've all been screaming for since...geez, I can't even remember.

 

Thanks for posting my story... :shades:

[ZanatWork]

Thanks for posting my story... :shades:

 

Thanks for posting it in the first place...though how that Aussie report didn't spread further, I can't imagine. I guess people just want to be pissed at any potential negative news....

[Footballfan]

Good- hopefully some Falcon/Territory variants can be built at Auto Alliance in the future.

[ausrutherford]

Thanks for posting it in the first place...though how that Aussie report didn't spread further, I can't imagine. I guess people just want to be pissed at any potential negative news....

 

I got all my stuff from the "Adios Falcon" thread on here.

Edited January 14, 2010 by ausrutherford

[jpd80]

Now all we have to do is have a little faith in Ford.

An exciting time for Ford fans where the potential of a Modern RWD strategy is exploited to the max.

Project leader is less important than developing good engineering to fit as many vehicles as possible.

 

This is still miles off and hasn't even been green lighted yet.

Edited January 14, 2010 by jpd80

[Blue II]

Here's something I found over at Motor Trend:

 

This oughta do it...

 

I think that'll work. Basically, the statement that the "Falcon cannot go on alone" was misinterpreted by the panic society to mean it was doomed, whereas it'll finally be co-engineered with the next 'Stand, which is logic we've all been screaming for since...geez, I can't even remember.

 

The Holden loving press in Oz is to blame.

[MRZJ]

The Holden loving press in Oz is to blame.

 

Spot on

 

Maybe there still is hope in oz for a return of the LWB Fairlane/LTD.

[GT-Keith]

IRS?

[jpd80]

Here's a nice report from Australia with Mulally quotes:

 

Next-gen Aussie icon won't be Australia's own

LINK

Sean Poppitt | January 1, 2010

"Ford Australia will never again go it alone." And so Ford Australia president Marin Burela confirmed that the FG will be the last Falcon designed, engineered and built exclusively for Australia.

 

 

The Falcon will live on, but not as we know it.

 

Under FoMoCo’s ‘One Ford’ strategy - which is focussed on developing global platforms which are then tailored for different markets around the world – pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into developing a stand-alone Falcon for Australia “makes no sense”, according to Burela. Instead, it’s likely a single large-car platform will be developed and farmed out across the sprawling Blue Oval empire.

 

Speaking to Wheels in a snow-blanketed and arctic-cold Detroit, Ford’s CEO Alan Mullaly echoed Burela’s words. “Would we [build a car just for Australia]? No, I don’t think so. [Car manufacturers] who make one vehicle - a different vehicle – for just one country, I think those days are gone, because you can't compete with the global companies.”

 

So the question is: what becomes of Falcon? Burela confirmed the next all-new Falcon will surface in 2015 and that the nameplate will live on in Australia. The next-gen Falcon will also retain the current car’s basic size and dimensions, but because the Falcon needs to integrate into the global Ford community, and potentially become just one variant built on a platform sold in several world markets, the DNA of the next Falcon is unclear. According to Ford, not even they know. But the glory days of rear-wheel drive are looking shaky.

 

“We have several options,” said Burela. “The new car won’t arrive until 2015 and we don’t have to make a decision on Falcon until 2011. Do we go front-wheel drive, all-wheel drive or stick with rear drive? These are the questions we’re asking and we’re in the early stages of intensive market research into those questions. But let me say this: Ford Australia will have extensive input into whatever car is choosen and we will deliver the car that Australians want and need.”

 

But RWD isn’t off the table just yet. Alan Mullaly also outlined the possibility of twinning development of the next Falcon with Ford’s rear drive muscle car: the Mustang. "You know, we’ve got some really good RWDs, too, like the Mustang. Can you imagine another new platform, just like the Falcon, that's going to be RWD for Mustang? So you can imagine driving One Ford we're going to have one of those, and there's no reason why we can't have it in Australia."

 

But uncertainty over Falcon’s future also casts a shadow over the future of Ford Australia continuing to build cars in this country. Ford has done much to strengthen its position since 2008, having streamlined local production and purchasing and taking into account the additional volume that will be created by the four-cylinder Falcon and diesel-powered Territory in 2011. But despite Falcon’s overall sales and market share actually growing during last year’s GFC-savaged roller-coaster ride, there can be no guarantee that the next Falcon will be built in Australia.

 

It will require a huge investment from Ford HQ to re-tool Australian factories for the next-generation Falcon, and with a low-cost manufacturing base in Thailand available to FoMoCo, questions marks linger over Broadmeadows. Building around 55,000 cars last year, volumes for Ford Oz are low and Australia is a relatively high-cost manufacturing base. It must be proven that the Falcon can be built profitably and that Ford Australia itself can return to profitability. The company posted a $274 loss in 2008, although Burela is confident of returning to profitability within the next three years. Ultimately, however, the decision will be made in the boardrooms of Ford HQ in Detroit.

 

Burela, on the other hand, was quick to hose down speculation: “You’re asking me to guarantee something that’s five years away. Frankly, that’s impossible, but the ‘One Ford’ strategy doesn’t include any immediate plans to stop building cars in Australia. We invested $230 million into our local operations last year and we have the Ecoboost Falcon and diesel Territory coming on-stream in 2011 - does that sound like the actions of a company that’s getting ready to turn off the lights?”

[twintornados]

IRS?

independent rear suspension.....

Edited January 14, 2010 by twintornados

[goinbroke2]

Where's that poster......AWWW, NOT THIS SHIT AGAIN????

[GT-Keith]

independent rear suspension.....

 

 

I hope so!

[atvman]

If anything, the Aussie consumers should be happy about this. It means that Ford will be able to put more money in the developing the platform, which should make the Falcon a much better car than it is today. Does anybody have an ETA on the new Mustang platform? I really want to get one in 2012, but I'd be willing to wait until 2013 if I can get an all new car.

 

*Edit

 

I just saw that 2015 is when this car will be out, if it comes out at all.

Edited January 14, 2010 by atvman

[Tornado]

If the Falcon is to stay the same size and the Mustang is to share the architecture, does this mean the Mustang is going to get bigger and become Camaro/Challenger size :unsure:

[atvman]

If the Falcon is to stay the same size and the Mustang is to share the architecture, does this mean the Mustang is going to get bigger and become Camaro/Challenger size :unsure:

Due to increasing fuel economy standards, I doubt Ford wants the Mustang to grow. If anything, the Falcon will come down to Mustang size.

[BORG]

I have tremendous faith that Ford will make the right decisions. But I would caution everybody not to be too excited by the prospect of the Mustang sharing a large car platform. We saw just how mediocre the Camaro chasis turned out to be next to the light-weight 'stang.

[92merc]

Due to increasing fuel economy standards, I doubt Ford wants the Mustang to grow. If anything, the Falcon will come down to Mustang size.

There's nothing saying Ford can't have a shorter version of the platform for Mustang and longer for Falcon...

[BORG]

There's nothing saying Ford can't have a shorter version of the platform for Mustang and longer for Falcon...

 

It's not that simple, unless your GM and Chrysler who make it that simple at their peril.

[jpd80]

I have tremendous faith that Ford will make the right decisions. But I would caution everybody not to be too excited by the prospect of the Mustang sharing a large car platform. We saw just how mediocre the Camaro chasis turned out to be next to the light-weight 'stang.

The difference is that the Camaro wasn't included in the 2002 design brief for the Zeta platform,

it was always going to be a porker because no real allowance was made for it at the start.

 

In contrast, Ford will scope the needs of all vehicles at the start of the project and have

stakeholders deeply involved in the development of their respective vehicles.

That way, regional vehicles will share a common base architecture but keep their primary attributes.

[atvman]

The difference is that the Camaro wasn't included in the 2002 design brief for the Zeta platform,

it was always going to be a porker because no real allowance was made for it at the start.

 

In contrast, Ford will scope the needs of all vehicles at the start of the project and have

stakeholders deeply involved in the development of their respective vehicles.

That way, regional vehicles will share a common base architecture but keep their primary attributes.

Exactly, any new platform will be versatile enough to suit the needs of multiple products. As long as Ford is building a Mustang, they will need a RWD platform. From a business standpoint, it makes sense to leverage that platform for as many different products as possible.

 

Also, keep in mind that Ford sells a lot of Mustangs, I think Mustang volume is higher than Falcon volume. You have to believe that Ford is taking that into heavy consideration here.

[92merc]

It's not that simple, unless your GM and Chrysler who make it that simple at their peril.

Ford has already shown they could do it on a Volvo. Granted it was a stretch of a Volvo and for Chinese markets. But if Ford approaches the problem as a whole new platform, I think it is totally possible.

 

To me though, Ford would need more than just the Falcon (LWB) and Mustang (SWB) as possibilities to make it worth while. I'm not sure a Lincoln version would be enough. Maybe Mercury. I don't know what though since everything I can think of is more of a "truck" application than car. I suppose maybe next gen MKT/Flex, but that's about it. But that might work if the assumption that the next gen Taurus is a CD4 stretch. The new DEW2015 platform (or what ever you call it) could be ready by that time for Mustang, et al.

 

I'm just tossing out ideas. I seriously doubt Ford has gone much further than that in their own board rooms.

[akirby]

Ford has already shown they could do it on a Volvo. Granted it was a stretch of a Volvo and for Chinese markets. But if Ford approaches the problem as a whole new platform, I think it is totally possible.

 

To me though, Ford would need more than just the Falcon (LWB) and Mustang (SWB) as possibilities to make it worth while. I'm not sure a Lincoln version would be enough. Maybe Mercury. I don't know what though since everything I can think of is more of a "truck" application than car. I suppose maybe next gen MKT/Flex, but that's about it. But that might work if the assumption that the next gen Taurus is a CD4 stretch. The new DEW2015 platform (or what ever you call it) could be ready by that time for Mustang, et al.

 

I'm just tossing out ideas. I seriously doubt Ford has gone much further than that in their own board rooms.

 

Mustang volume alone should be enough to justify the platform (just look at the current one). Falcon and MKR would be gravy.

[silvrsvt]

Mustang volume alone should be enough to justify the platform (just look at the current one).

 

The current Mustang was done on the cheap, and it doesn't lend itself to really anything else..which is the problem

 

Though I wonder about the 80's Mustang and the Lincoln MK.7, was there really that big of a difference, or where peoples expectations just lower?

[morgande]

But RWD isn’t off the table just yet. Alan Mullaly also outlined the possibility of twinning development of the next Falcon with Ford’s rear drive muscle car: the Mustang. "You know, we’ve got some really good RWDs, too, like the Mustang. Can you imagine another new platform, just like the Falcon, that's going to be RWD for Mustang? So you can imagine driving One Ford we're going to have one of those, and there's no reason why we can't have it in Australia."

 

RWDs. Plural. S. That means more than one. In the US market, you don't have any RWDs. Plural. You have ONE RWD. Singular. As in Mustang. That's it. Don't tell me about other platforms you have in other countries that aren't even available, especially when your uncertain as to what will become of those platforms. Which brings up my next point...

 

All the talk about Australia not going it alone with the Falcon, but they don't mind the Mustang going it alone it seems. Some things just don't add up for me. Ford clearly has not figured out what it wants to do.

 

How many platforms does Ford have for cars? Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Taurus all are on separate platforms. And that not including the variations to those platforms (Fusion/Edge) (Fiesta/Kuga) (Taurus/Flex) etc.

 

But with respect to RWD, its not so clear. People say the current Falcon platform is too big for the Mustang. And the current Mustang platform is too small for the Falcon. But all the FWD platforms don't have nearly so much burden on them. So why can't there be a similar solution here? There is an entire brand (Lincoln) that is DYING for RWD. There is no reason to engineer a silver bullet for something that can accommodate everyone and everything. Its a myth. It doesn't exist. Can't be done. There is no global RWD platform just like there is no global FWD platform. Global cars? Yes. But there is a separate platform for a specific kind of car. Not so much. I can envision at least 2 RWD platforms. Ford is going to need about 2. If FWD can have 4+, there is no reason why RWD can't have 2. Ford just needs to accept the fact that its OK if the concept of GRWD means 2 separate plates. One Ford has more than one GFWD plate.

 

A lot of people Bash GM for having so many separate RWD plates. Kappa, Sigma, Zeta, Alpha. But look at how many Ford has for FWD. I agree that 3-4 plates is a lot. But dumbing down to a single plate to accommodate everything is very hard to do. I'd argue that its impossible to do. Not unless your willing to conceded to so many limitations that you end up with platform that has cars that just aren't very good. Jack of all trades but a master of none.

 

So I guess we will see where this goes. But Ford needs to accept that in this case, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Its going to need more than one RWD plate to accomplish its goals.