Ford Reviewing Lincoln

[Footballfan]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704269204575270822363686774.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines

 

The last line "all options are under consideration for Lincoln" bothers me. Might they kill that brand too?

[2b2]

tho I don't want FoMoCo to kill Lincoln,

the facts are that since the MKZ-Milan-Fusion triplets came out,

Lincoln has ADDED 4 new models

while Mercury LOST one

Yet Merc STILL outsells Lincoln

[Footballfan]

tho I don't want FoMoCo to kill Lincoln,

the facts are that since the MKZ-Milan-Fusion triplets came out,

Lincoln has ADDED 4 new models

while Mercury LOST one

Yet Merc STILL outsells Lincoln

 

I know, that is scary. If Lincoln is to be a standalone brand, there better be at least four MORE vehichles added including a compact SUV, a mid-size/large RWD Coupe and Sedan, and perhaps a smaller RWD sedan and/or new Explorer based SUV. The other models need to be restyled to differentiate themselves from Ford.

[lfeg]

The question should be - can Lincoln stand alone without Mercury? Or even, can Lincoln dealers stand alone without the Mercury line?

 

If Mercury goes away, does Lincoln get paired with Ford dealers? Does Lincoln expand to the lower brackets to allow stand alone Lincoln dealers survive? Or does it fade away? A strong dealer network is vital, you cannot sell Lincolns at the town Walmart.

[mustang2]

The question should be - can Lincoln stand alone without Mercury? Or even, can Lincoln dealers stand alone without the Mercury line?

 

If Mercury goes away, does Lincoln get paired with Ford dealers? Does Lincoln expand to the lower brackets to allow stand alone Lincoln dealers survive? Or does it fade away? A strong dealer network is vital, you cannot sell Lincolns at the town Walmart.

I attended the stockholders meeting. One stockholder asked the board about Ford's plans for Lincoln. The response was that Ford dealers and customers had benefitted from these dealers selling Lincolns as well.. Didn't sound good for Mercury.

[saintlaz1]

There really is just room for all 3 if they just have a clear marketing direction. Ford is pretty simple to market, Mercury not so much only because of its currnent line up, Mercury should have always been a blend of sport and luxury.

 

Lincoln should do its best to move up-market more

[92merc]

What would make more sense to me is to make Mercury the "small car luxury Ford". Stop making the MKZ when the Fusion is on the new platform. Everything smaller than the "new" Fusion will be a Mercury. Trader, Escape twin, etc. But no Mountaineer. Leave those to Lincoln. Bring over the European Max vehicles as Mercury's when they can platform share in a US factory. But put into Mercury all the upscale styling you would have put into a Lincoln, if they would make a Lincoln of that model. Depending on model, it would need to be priced between Ford and Lincoln. Just be sure to give them something extra for it though. Not badge engineering.

 

Make Lincoln only larger and performance branded. MKS, MKT. Nothing smaller than the MKX. Add the MKR performace halo car. Get a new Navigator, and Aviator. But leave the emphasis on luxury and/or performance. Leave the smaller vehicles to Lincoln.

[silvrsvt]

Make Lincoln only larger and performance branded. MKS, MKT. Nothing smaller than the MKX. Add the MKR performace halo car. Get a new Navigator, and Aviator. But leave the emphasis on luxury and/or performance. Leave the smaller vehicles to Lincoln.

 

The thing that puts a big dent into this that Ford has to worry about Fleet MPG rules in the Future. I see Lincoln getting a C based car in addition to MKZ. I don't see it selling in huge numbers, but it will be there to help get MPG numbers. Though the biggest problem with that is making it different then the Focus and Tracer.

 

Plus performance doesn't sell cars...all it does is help sell magazines. I don't see where Caddy got a huge bump for selling the CTS performance model. I think I saw one one the road and the Caddy Based Vette was sales failure. I like how they mention Caddy in the same breath as BMW etc...they still have really nothing to show besides the CTS after spending several billions on them..

 

Just a slow news day...

[SVT_MAN]

Plus performance doesn't sell cars...all it does is help sell magazines. I don't see where Caddy got a huge bump for selling the CTS performance model. I think I saw one one the road and the Caddy Based Vette was sales failure. I like how they mention Caddy in the same breath as BMW etc...they still have really nothing to show besides the CTS after spending several billions on them..

 

Just a slow news day...

 

I don't think the CTS-V was ever meant to sell in large numbers. Just like the GT or GT-500 in the Mustang lineup, it's an aspirational car. If you can't afford it, you go for a lower level vehicle from the same model. That said, did the CTS really sell that greatly considering the investment? Not so much.

[30 OTT 6]

I think SVT is more important to FoMoCo than Mercury. By cutting Mercury, Ford could sink more money into engine/chasis development than in grills and taillamps. Or in other words, I'd rather see SVT versions of Fiesta and Focus than Mercury versions.

[Edstock]

1,700 + Mercury dealers. What does it cost to wind up the franchises?

 

Mercury appears to make money with the Milan, and as RJ has pointed out, Mercury appeals to people that don't buy Fords. With fresh product, the brand is probably viable and should be targeting Buick, IMHO. This leaves Lincoln to be further up-scale.

[Ron W.]

There really is just room for all 3 if they just have a clear marketing direction. Ford is pretty simple to market, Mercury not so much only because of its * lack of * currnent line up, Mercury should have always been a blend of sport and luxury.

 

Lincoln should do its best to move up-market more

 

Just another opinion.

[92merc]

Maybe "FoMoCo" is just biding their time to ramp up Lincoln with a few more cars before axing Mercury...

[PREMiERdrum]

Ok, here's what I've been able to piece together from a few different sources (including a few former BON'ers)

 

The reviews of both Mercury and Lincoln were ordered by a few executives who see the success of the high-trim Ford products and thinks that these trims make Lincoln, and especially Mercury, irrelevant. There are a few who see extra brands as a distraction, and those execs want to take the capital that would fund Mercury development and push it into the new "Titanium" trimmed Fords. Mercury has always had a place because it attracted enough sales of people who wouldn't have otherwise bought a Ford. With the new Ford models (Edge, Fusion, Flex, Taurus), those customers who wouldn't have considered the Ford brand a few years ago suddenly are. Import conquests are "through the roof."

 

With Lincoln, they're seeing much higher transaction prices, even with a rather lackluster lineup. Execs want to keep pushing Lincoln further upmarket , since people are showing that they're willing to put down the cash for them.

 

So, these reviews have left a few options on the table:

 

-Keep the current plan in place. Give Mercury B and C segment premium vehicles with unique styling and features, and give Lincoln more upscale products from the C/D segment and larger. (this plan is still in place, and the Tracer is still on track)

 

-Eliminate Mercury, Invest heavily into the Titanium trim line for Ford and introduce 2 C segment vehicles to Lincoln (the MKEscape and the MKC). The 2 new Lincolns would "replace" Mercury's footprint in the showroom, so there shouldn't be much noise from dealers.

 

-Eliminate both Lincoln and Mercury, paying to buy out L/M dealers. This would remove the "cap" from Ford and allow them to push the brand as far up market as the wished to go. No more withholding features from Fords to "save" them for Lincoln.

 

If I were a betting man, I'd put down cash that Mercury isn't going anywhere, but I'm glad that they're weighing all their options and seeing what's best for the company.

[ANTAUS]

I hear "lets' take Lincoln upmarket"...which ideally sounds good on paper, but when Ford takes something "upmarket" it means raising the price "upmarket' thats it. It's not offering anything different than Ford, to warrant "upmarket", other than slapping a heftier pricetag. The MKS is still a Taurus, the MKZ is still a Fusion. People will have a hard time paying for an Upmarket Ford if it's essentially, still a Ford. So when Ford does decide to have a dedicated RWD platform for Lincoln, then "upmarket pricing" will be accepted.

[focus05]

I see this a bit differently. The elimination of Mercury allows extra dollars to move towards platform/engine dev.

 

I would expect to see two things happen if Mercury went away: Lincoln would get at least one C-class vehicle. Ford would invest in greater drivetrain and powertrain differentiation between Lincoln and Ford (ala VW and Audi).

 

I don't think anyone is deluded into thinking Ford could be an upmarket brand. Hyundai does ok with Genesis because it's only a $40k car. The Equus is not really called a Hyundai - and I think they will still have difficulty finding success with it.

 

Mercury isn't a large pit of money for development; and clearly branding isn't invested in heavily. But if you were to try and build your luxury C-car credentials and potentially launch a halo car for Lincoln, you'd get no cross brand benefits between L and M. If you kill Mercury, you focus your marketing efforts on one brand: Lincoln. You focus on brand image; you bring in C-cars that ride the brand name; and then you launch a halo that drags it up market.

 

This is not about what it costs to keep Mercury around - this is really about what it costs to build a brand from where they are. And that suggests that Mercury's days are numbered, and Ford will bet part of the farm on Lincoln. And I hope they do.

 

Lincoln needs to take an Audi route if they are going to be based off the same platform. Lincoln should probably get a RWD halo at some point - maybe resurrect the Continental brand. But you can push billions into product, but if you marketing is weak, you won't be able to draw people in... and I think that's what Ford's looking at right now.

[Anthony]

According this the AP article HERE:

 

Edmunds.com suggested Thursday that even if it does cancel Mercury, Ford probably wouldn't lose many customers, since nearly half of Mercury shoppers also consider the Ford brand.

[silvrsvt]

I hear "lets' take Lincoln upmarket"...which ideally sounds good on paper, but when Ford takes something "upmarket" it means raising the price "upmarket' thats it. It's not offering anything different than Ford, to warrant "upmarket", other than slapping a heftier pricetag. The MKS is still a Taurus, the MKZ is still a Fusion. People will have a hard time paying for an Upmarket Ford if it's essentially, still a Ford. So when Ford does decide to have a dedicated RWD platform for Lincoln, then "upmarket pricing" will be accepted.

 

That sure doesn't seem to hurt Lexus...with its two biggest sellers being based on a Camry and Highlander accordingly.

 

But I also agree with you to a point, what is there besides styling and different sheetmetal when you line up a loaded Taurus SHO vs a EB MKS? The Options are nearly identical to one another. Lincoln needs more to it separate it from its Ford lineup.

[RichardJensen]

I see this a bit differently. The elimination of Mercury allows extra dollars to move towards platform/engine dev.

 

Not when you're losing 20k sales a year.

 

nearly half of Mercury shoppers also consider the Ford brand

 

And I think the idea of killing Mercury in favor of a compact Lincoln is idiotic. Tiny luxury cars don't sell. They don't sell. They don't sell. They don't sell. They don't sell.

 

Killing Mercury in an attempt to buck that trend is stupid.

[jpd80]

Not when you're losing 20k sales a year.

 

 

 

And I think the idea of killing Mercury in favor of a compact Lincoln is idiotic. Tiny luxury cars don't sell. They don't sell. They don't sell. They don't sell. They don't sell.

 

Killing Mercury in an attempt to buck that trend is stupid.

 

This might be one of those hard to accept decisions where Ford does Titanium trim

level for itself and transfers new Compact Mercury to Compact Lincoln and begins to

export Lincolns to other markets around the world....

 

Nothing set in stone, but I suspect that Ford is of the opinion that US car sizing will have to decrease

with tightening of CAFE regulations, maybe they see compacts and mid size as their key cars from now on...

 

Of course, Ford could be with holding information on new Mercurys or Lincolns to see what Buick and others do before committing either way...

Edited May 29, 2010 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

There may be valid reasons for dropping Mercury, but expanding the Lincoln lineup downward is not one of them, IMO.

[jpd80]

There may be valid reasons for dropping Mercury, but expanding the Lincoln lineup downward is not one of them, IMO.

I know you see the Compact Lincoln as a very hard sell in the US, the cost placement is extremely sensitive .

Too high and potential buyers walk, too low and the perception of Lincoln is dragged down....

 

Volvo S40 starts around $26K, I doubt you could ask much more than that in the US for a baby Lincoln.

If that was the case then Ford would do their Titanium level and the next step would be Lincoln,

base Ford to Lincoln -> $10,000 hike for Focus but perhaps more for other vehicles..

 

( I didn't mean to imply it was a good plan, just searching for the logic)

 

Possible pricing:

 

Focus:

S: $16,000

SE: $17,000

SEL: $18,000

Titanium: $22,000

MKC: $26,000

 

Fusion:

I-4 S: $19,000

I-4 SE: $21,000

V6 SE: $23,000

V6 SEL: $26,000

V6 Titanium: $29,000

MKZ: $34,000

 

Taurus:

SE: $25,000

SEL: $27,000

Limited: $31,000

Titanium: $36,000

MKS: $42,000

Edited May 29, 2010 by jpd80

[armadamaster]

I've said it for years and I'll say it again: Mercury dies with the Grand Marquis.

[fordmantpw]

I've said it for years and I'll say it again: Mercury dies with the Grand Marquis.

 

[jpd80]

I've said it for years and I'll say it again: Mercury dies with the Grand Marquis.

I bet you'll also say Lincoln dies with the Town Car.....