timmm55 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Aside from sales (relatively low) or styling (I disagree with their comments, I love it, saw a new all black one yesterday with DUB style wheels and it looked great!).........they seem to think it's the last and only version. Will the refresh make production? AOL Car Deals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Aside from sales (relatively low) or styling (I disagree with their comments, I love it, saw a new all black one yesterday with DUB style wheels and it looked great!).........they seem to think it's the last and only version. Will the refresh make production? AOL Car Deals Unless they decide to divert the resources to other more needy projects I think it will definitely get a refresh. After that it depends on sales volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 IIRC, Brenda Priddy has already posted shots of a camo'd Flex refresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 I like the Flex. I think it is good looking, useful, and I may just buy one yet. But, I don't think it has come close to selling as well as Ford would have hoped. The Flex seems to be in the same market segment as the Chrysler Pacifica, and that type of vehicle is just not what a lot of buyers are looking for. I hope Ford gives it another shot with an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 (edited) It would seem the biggest thing to separate it from the Explorer is for the Flex to have sliders. Not part of the original game plan for the Flex as a 'minivan alternative' however, it may have to happen. Besides, they can make less of them if they still turn a profit which they do AFAIK. Edited June 17, 2011 by Hugh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 IIRC, Brenda Priddy has already posted shots of a camo'd Flex refresh. That's why I said "will the refresh make production?" There are many car that had prototypes made, I'd bet there were a few stillborn Mercurys and Pontiacs that were in near completion when they got axes. Some that are prototypes, exercises and show cars: DNMP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 According to this article the average sales price is 11.9% off of MSRP. I thought the ATP's on these were great? Is there that much overhead built into the price that they can be discounted so deeply and still turn an amazing profit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 The problems I see with it is, because it doesn't have sliders, many people don't realize it's a mini van, so they never consider it. The ones that do, only ever seem to hear about the top trim line version, and balk at the price they hear. Most people I know with mini vans bought Caravans because they are dirt cheap, and the stow-n-go is a bonus. IMO, families either spend a lot of money on a SUV, or want to spend little on a Mini Van. I don't think the Flex has found it's market yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 According to this article the average sales price is 11.9% off of MSRP. I thought the ATP's on these were great? Is there that much overhead built into the price that they can be discounted so deeply and still turn an amazing profit? Not quite as amazing obviously. When is the refresh coming? The discounts could be due to overproduction and/or a new model coming out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Not quite as amazing obviously. When is the refresh coming? The discounts could be due to overproduction and/or a new model coming out. It's already been shown that Lincoln will be showing a refreshed MKT soon. I highly doubt Ford would go with the MKT only. Get back to us when you have some PROOF it's dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havelock Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 The problems I see with it is, because it doesn't have sliders, many people don't realize it's a mini van, so they never consider it. The ones that do, only ever seem to hear about the top trim line version, and balk at the price they hear. Most people I know with mini vans bought Caravans because they are dirt cheap, and the stow-n-go is a bonus. IMO, families either spend a lot of money on a SUV, or want to spend little on a Mini Van. I don't think the Flex has found it's market yet. It is very unlikely Ford would/will change the type of doors on the Flex. Putting sliders on it would require a lot of rework and then the Flex will be compared with minivans that have significantly more space. A change that would require less, but is still very unlikely, would be connecting the rear doors to the C-pillar using 4-bar linkages or one of the linkages shown in Ford pickup patents that have been posted on this website. This would allow the door to open fully in a narrow parking spot like sliders, but would be cheaper due to less changes being necessary and it would not look like a sliding door which is a positive for people that don't want to be seen driving a minivan. As someone that will be in the market for this type of vehicle in the next 6-12 months, I sure hope Ford keeps the Flex around. It is soooo much more comfortable than anything else that is on the market from any of the non-luxury brands in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) It's already been shown that Lincoln will be showing a refreshed MKT soon. I highly doubt Ford would go with the MKT only. Get back to us when you have some PROOF it's dead. When I have PROOF? I'm asking if anybody has heard anything. I hope it's NOT true. It's just an AOL article and they usually don't know diddly. My guess is the Flex will be shown soon also......hence my comment about current production and a new model. Edited June 18, 2011 by timmm55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 (edited) According to this article the average sales price is 11.9% off of MSRP. I thought the ATP's on these were great? Is there that much overhead built into the price that they can be discounted so deeply and still turn an amazing profit? Depends...if your discounting a 40K vehicle...its about 4K off...the Flex starts at 29K I often wonder how they determine average sales price....I took a look at the MKT rebates and they where only 1K a couple weeks ago. Edit: Just looked up both the MKT and Flex in my area...the 2012 models only have a 1K rebate on them Edited June 18, 2011 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 According to this article the average sales price is 11.9% off of MSRP. I thought the ATP's on these were great? Is there that much overhead built into the price that they can be discounted so deeply and still turn an amazing profit? ATP is the actual price paid, not the ratio of price paid to MSRP. Most of that 12% is the dealer discount off MSRP. Ford is only contributing $1K in rebates so Ford is making great profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 It may get a refresh, but it is a "dead man walking" unless sales really take off. Besides low sales, its fuel economy is hurting CAFE (as is Edge and Explorer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Besides low sales, its fuel economy is hurting CAFE (as is Edge and Explorer). Ummmm, no. You do realize that CAFE is based on the old system, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 It may get a refresh, but it is a "dead man walking" unless sales really take off. Besides low sales, its fuel economy is hurting CAFE (as is Edge and Explorer). Considering your record I wouldn't talk in absolutes, wiz. If you were right on everything there wouldn't be a 6.2L in the F150 right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) It's quite possible Ford will can the MKT and Flex before the MCE hits production, it's happened before and it will happen again. We've seen recently with Mercury and C-Max that anything is possible, just because a company promises something, doesn't mean they can't change their mind. GM engineered all-new minivans up to the prototype stage, before they dropped them. Consider me slightly surprised that Ford is attempting an MCE of these cars, either they have some determined executives cheering them on, or they are making a ton of money on each vehicle. Ford definitely does not need these vehicles on their lots, volume is so minuscule and dropping so return on investment can't guaranteed.. The Flex can't be easily modified to become a minivan, they would have to start from scratch. Edited June 19, 2011 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 It is very unlikely Ford would/will change the type of doors on the Flex. Putting sliders on it would require a lot of rework and then the Flex will be compared with minivans that have significantly more space. A change that would require less, but is still very unlikely, would be connecting the rear doors to the C-pillar using 4-bar linkages or one of the linkages shown in Ford pickup patents that have been posted on this website. This would allow the door to open fully in a narrow parking spot like sliders, but would be cheaper due to less changes being necessary and it would not look like a sliding door which is a positive for people that don't want to be seen driving a minivan. As someone that will be in the market for this type of vehicle in the next 6-12 months, I sure hope Ford keeps the Flex around. It is soooo much more comfortable than anything else that is on the market from any of the non-luxury brands in the US. You're right, Ford wouldn't change the doors for a refresh, maybe for a new model if it survives, and at that point I'd expect that it'd get the new door technology as mentioned here over traditional sliders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 My assumption has been the Flex will survive until such point that Ford retools OAC for the next gen Edge.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkisler Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Aside from sales (relatively low) or styling (I disagree with their comments, I love it, saw a new all black one yesterday with DUB style wheels and it looked great!).........they seem to think it's the last and only version. Will the refresh make production? AOL Car Deals My goodness, you've started a "tempest in a teapot." First, you should disregard AOL; it's one of a number of organizations that stings together random words and calls them articles. Second, take a look at this Autoblog article: Autoblog You can tell from the camo that the Flex is getting a minor mid-cycle freshening on the exterior (what is often called a "front and rear 6", meaning lamps, grille, fascia, rear lamps and evidently in this case a modified liftgate). And of course an interior fresh, particularly adding MFT. When you see camo over the new bits, you can assume the tooling is already spent, and the liklihood of Ford cancelling the freshening is very slim. Even though the Flex/MKT were not necessarily successful programs, if you want to understand what Ford has in mind, you have to understand that 1) What's sunk is sunk, 2) it's only important to consider the present and prospective, and 3) there will be certain key events where a decision will have to be made. So, even if the Flex/MKT is not necessarily a profitable program, once the investment has been made, the individual units sold are likely profitable. The minor freshening is not so expensive, and if it helps take the Flex through the remainder of the cycle, then it's likely a good investment. But there will be major events that will cause Ford to consider the future of the Flex. One key event is the installation of CD4 tooling in Oakville when the Edge gets replaced (mentioned by syllynd). Another will be when the Edge nears the end of it's life (say in 3-4 years). In each case, Ford will have to consider carefully whether to continue, move, or cancel the Flex and MKT. Edited June 19, 2011 by Austin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmm55 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 My goodness, you've started a "tempest in a teapot." First, you should disregard AOL; it's one of a number of organizations that stings together random words and calls them articles. .........and the liklihood of Ford cancelling the freshening is very slim............The minor freshening is not so expensive, My goodness you can't read. I said AOL doesn't know diddly a couple of posts ago! I'm well aware of the refresh prototype running around. There isn't a tempest, just a lot of hot air and opinions. I asked if anyone knew anything. I guess we'll know next year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocheese Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 My assumption has been the Flex will survive until such point that Ford retools OAC for the next gen Edge.... I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. If the Flex can't start pulling in better numbers, OAC might be finished sooner than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. If the Flex can't start pulling in better numbers, OAC might be finished sooner than later. As long as the Explorer is sitting in the same showroom I don't expect the Flex to start selling well even with a facelift. It's a good vehicle, but the Explorer is much more appealing to the mass majority of people looking for a seven seat SUV. There is no doubt in my mind if they could build more Explorers it would be selling even better. The Flex is a nice ride, but with the new Explorer selling like hot cakes it just isn't needed. Just focus on keeping the Explorer a leader and Ford's got this market covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marginal Economist Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 My goodness you can't read. I said AOL doesn't know diddly a couple of posts ago! I'm well aware of the refresh prototype running around. There isn't a tempest, just a lot of hot air and opinions. I asked if anyone knew anything. I guess we'll know next year! Sure. Flex is fine. Have a great day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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