Two Ford Plants Reject UAW Deal

[Deanh]

With near 18% underemployment, do these UAW members rally think that there will be no one willing to take their job?

obviously not the ones weilding pitchforks...and SHAME on their leadership for not conveying the importance of accepting a BETTER deal than either GM or Dodge negotiated....how bout this, average all three and give them ALL the same deal....Ford would be laughing all the way to the bank. One thing for sure, with the comments fired back by ford, the UAW heads need to get their heads out of their a$$'s before the thin ice starts creaking....

[Extreme4x4]

They honestly think that they cannot be replaced by people who can do their job as well as they can. It is all over the employee forum.

 

These short sighted, living with tunnel vision people actually think they have it bad. They think they work harder than anyone, and that their form of middle class is being squeezed out. They even say completely ridiculous things, like, "if this contract passes, how do we feed our children?" The sense of entitlement is scary, at best.

 

I worked at Home Depot for 2 years. My reward for my hard work, was $11.80 an hour, and having to have foot surgery on one foot, with constant foot pain for the rest of my life. My husband is a hazmat truck driver. He is in his truck 5.5-7 days a week. Sometimes he gets 1/2 of 1 day off, in a week, to see his family. Everyone and everthing works against the truck driver. Everything is their fault, and law enforcement is currently pulling big trucks over almost exclusively, because they are the big tickets and all states are broke. A light goes out on your trailer, drivers fault and points go against him in a national system. Someone hits your truck, it is your fault because you were there. Anything and everything is the truckdrivers fault, and they are the ones who get to pay for it all. It kills your body, and your soul.

 

Yet, there is nothing else that he can do, and make the same money. So, he doesn't complain, and is thankful to have a good paying job.

 

A UAW worker, with overtime, makes about the same as my husband.............................. and has benefits that he can only dream of (think of how you would feel with a $5000 deductable for your insurance). If he takes vacation, he is punished by being paid less than 1/2 of what he makes in a normal day.

 

The UAW worker gets to see his family every day. He gets sick days and vacation pay that is equal to what he normally makes. He gets a golden parachute insurance plan that most would kill for. He gets a guaranteed pension when he leaves the company, along with continued insurance. Yet, all he does is whine and complain about how the company is screwing him............................ as if the company is a non profit organization whose sole purpose is to pay them piles of cash and bennies.

 

Frankly, from the outside looking in, it makes me sick........................ and embarassed to be such an ardent Ford fan.

 

Disclaimer: This is not to belittle all of the great UAW employees who are voting yes, and who are greatful for the great jobs that they have. The others need to spend one week in the shoes of us "outsiders." I bet they would change their tune real quick.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Extreme4x4

[Deanh]

They honestly think that they cannot be replaced by people who can do their job as well as they can. It is all over the employee forum.

 

These short sighted, living with tunnel vision people actually think they have it bad. They think they work harder than anyone, and that their form of middle class is being squeezed out. They even say completely ridiculous things, like, "if this contract passes, how do we feed our children?" The sense of entitlement is scary, at best.

 

I worked at Home Depot for 2 years. My reward for my hard work, was $11.80 an hour, and having to have foot surgery on one foot, with constant foot pain for the rest of my life. My husband is a hazmat truck driver. He is in his truck 5.5-7 days a week. Sometimes he gets 1/2 of 1 day off, in a week, to see his family. Everyone and everthing works against the truck driver. Everything is their fault, and law enforcement is currently pulling big trucks over almost exclusively, because they are the big tickets and all states are broke. A light goes out on your trailer, drivers fault and points go against him in a national system. Someone hits your truck, it is your fault because you were there. Anything and everything is the truckdrivers fault, and they are the ones who get to pay for it all. It kills your body, and your soul.

 

Yet, there is nothing else that he can do, and make the same money. So, he doesn't complain, and is thankful to have a good paying job.

 

A UAW worker, with overtime, makes about the same as my husband.............................. and has benefits that he can only dream of (think of how you would feel with a $5000 deductable for your insurance). If he takes vacation, he is punished by being paid less than 1/2 of what he makes in a normal day.

 

The UAW worker gets to see his family every day. He gets sick days and vacation pay that is equal to what he normally makes. He gets a golden parachute insurance plan that most would kill for. He gets a guaranteed pension when he leaves the company, along with continued insurance. Yet, all he does is whine and complain about how the company is screwing him............................ as if the company is a non profit organization whose sole purpose is to pay them piles of cash and bennies.

 

Frankly, from the outside looking in, it makes me sick........................ and embarassed to be such an ardent Ford fan.

 

Disclaimer: This is not to belittle all of the great UAW employees who are voting yes, and who are greatful for the great jobs that they have. The others need to spend one week in the shoes of us "outsiders." I bet they would change their tune real quick.

unfortunately Gloria, its a classic case of a few spoiling it for the majority or ignorance ruling common sense....NO ONE is irreplaceable, and to think theres no-one out there better or could do the same job is just plain ego ignorance running rampant....one thing springs to mind from my fighting days...my trainer always preached to me..."Theres always someone out there thats better....."

Edited October 13, 2011 by Deanh

[mettech]

It will be very interesting to see what approach the President will take on this if the UAW strikes.

[svtenthusiast]

The irony of it all....MAP of all places....home tof the 2012 Focus where a properly aligned hood is hard to find and is shipped anyway. To hell with the customer....I want mine and screw you. Also home to where every third car in MAP and Wayne Stamping plant employee parking lot is a non Ford vehicle.

 

Home of the $28,000 2012 Ford Focus Titanium that passed through quality control with a loose LH taillamp which you could run your finger under between the lamp and the quarter panel because they did not bother to put any of the attaching grommets in place that hold the studs on the back of the taillamps secure. It's not just one car... When we took the car back to the dealer for repair they said it was not the first one with this exact problem... Also the ambient lighting fixture under the driver's side dash was left with a broken wiring harness connector that was supposed to be plugged into it.

 

I bought a 2012 Focus that was built the end of April. I have the doors that aren't aligned on the driver's side between the front and rear door (like pictured earler). Missing bumper stops on the underside of the trunk lid. Many blemishes in the paint-- bubbles, runs, dirt. (I know it's painted by a machine, but where's the QC?). Overall, a great car that's overshadowed by poor assembly and QC. No excuse for that in this day and age.

 

There have been many youtube postings on the door alignment and other issues. There has been many of the push button start vehicles with the cover missing over the ignition cylinder, one was just delivered to the dealer this week with this issue. I have heard the stories of bad tail lamp fastening and misaligned hoods and tailgates. Alot of the earlier builds that had the parking package had the buttons installed in the dash, but the harness was left unplugged to the buttons. Fortunately mine didn't have these.

 

I hate to admit that my 2010 Fusion that was built in Mexico was one of the best built out of the 18 Ford vehicles that I have owned. The quality of that car was exceptional. I am all for buying stuff made in the USA, but this type of talk and poor assembly really sours my ownership experience with a car produced by the UAW.

 

I am a huge Ford advocate, supporter and a shareholder.....but this is just embarrassing.

Edited October 13, 2011 by svtenthusiast

[twmalonehunter]

They honestly think that they cannot be replaced by people who can do their job as well as they can. It is all over the employee forum.

 

These short sighted, living with tunnel vision people actually think they have it bad. They think they work harder than anyone, and that their form of middle class is being squeezed out. They even say completely ridiculous things, like, "if this contract passes, how do we feed our children?" The sense of entitlement is scary, at best.

 

I worked at Home Depot for 2 years. My reward for my hard work, was $11.80 an hour, and having to have foot surgery on one foot, with constant foot pain for the rest of my life. My husband is a hazmat truck driver. He is in his truck 5.5-7 days a week. Sometimes he gets 1/2 of 1 day off, in a week, to see his family. Everyone and everthing works against the truck driver. Everything is their fault, and law enforcement is currently pulling big trucks over almost exclusively, because they are the big tickets and all states are broke. A light goes out on your trailer, drivers fault and points go against him in a national system. Someone hits your truck, it is your fault because you were there. Anything and everything is the truckdrivers fault, and they are the ones who get to pay for it all. It kills your body, and your soul.

 

Yet, there is nothing else that he can do, and make the same money. So, he doesn't complain, and is thankful to have a good paying job.

 

A UAW worker, with overtime, makes about the same as my husband.............................. and has benefits that he can only dream of (think of how you would feel with a $5000 deductable for your insurance). If he takes vacation, he is punished by being paid less than 1/2 of what he makes in a normal day.

 

The UAW worker gets to see his family every day. He gets sick days and vacation pay that is equal to what he normally makes. He gets a golden parachute insurance plan that most would kill for. He gets a guaranteed pension when he leaves the company, along with continued insurance. Yet, all he does is whine and complain about how the company is screwing him............................ as if the company is a non profit organization whose sole purpose is to pay them piles of cash and bennies.

 

Frankly, from the outside looking in, it makes me sick........................ and embarassed to be such an ardent Ford fan.

 

Disclaimer: This is not to belittle all of the great UAW employees who are voting yes, and who are greatful for the great jobs that they have. The others need to spend one week in the shoes of us "outsiders." I bet they would change their tune real quick.

 

Good post.

[weiweishen]

It will be very interesting to see what approach the President will take on this if the UAW strikes.

Obama prays everyday for the unemployment rate to drop. Now his brothers and sisters are trying to make the number bigger and bigger. Good call.

Just image a news titled "unemployment add 41000 today". That will be a perfect blast to his cool face. Yes, we can.

[jpd80]

But I will say this: The UAW isn't getting a better deal than this, and if this deal falls through, it could be months of work under the OLD contract while Ford and the UAW try to concoct some combination of whatever that costs Ford no more than this package and will be acceptable to the UAW rank and file.

 

Ultimately, this is the case: This new contract is better than the old contract, and with Ford having negotiated in good faith, it's likely the best contract that the UAW is gonna get. The longer the UAW rank and file work under the old contract, the more of the new contract they miss. The contract is going to end Sept. 1 2015 regardless of when it's ratified. Heck, Ford is probably saving money if they end up going back to the negotiating table for another 3-4 months (rest assured, if this fails, there won't be another vote until mid winter or later).

 

The rank and file may not like it, but, hey, life is full of stuff we don't like.

I'm wondering, if the rank and file vote down this deal, does Ford have to do anything right away?

The previous contract has been extended while bargaining and voting takes place,

so what's to stop Ford from saying to UAW bargaining team:

 

"OK, let's keep things the way they are for now, go back to your members and convince them this is the best deal they're going to get.

We have to know by (this date) otherwise our scheduling for US products is in jeopardy. Be aware that if you can't convince them to

take this deal by the deadline, there will still be expansion in the USA but not as much as we planned..."

Edited October 13, 2011 by jpd80

[RichardJensen]

I have the doors that aren't aligned on the driver's side between the front and rear door (like pictured earler).

These sort of problems didn't occur with the C170 Focus assembled at Wayne last year.

 

I blame management, not the UAW, vis a vis the Focus: I think they totally misjudged the complexity of switching to C2 and "One Ford", and I hope they're learning daily what they screwed up and how.

 

Frankly, it looks like we not only got a EU engineered platform, we also got EU build quality. And I'm wondering what higher-up decided to release clearly defective vehicles from the batch/hold when they refused to do this with the Flex, Edge, and new Taurus.

[RichardJensen]

Another thing:

 

I blame Bob King.

 

The man came in after Gettelfinger ranting and roaring and stirring up discontent over blue collar concessions and executive pay.

 

Employee discontent with Mulally's pay has ALWAYS been an issue, but King stoked that flame into a raging fire.

 

If employees vote against this contract because it falls short of his incendiary rhetoric, well, he's getting what he earned.

 

You can't take do everything short of hang Mulally and Bill Ford in effigy and then deliver a generous but far from extravagant contract to members in whom you've stoked a bloodlust.

 

Coming soon: Examples of King's irresponsible rhetoric.

[Len_A]

Yeah, but wasn't one of those states Delaware? :D

 

Seriously; the UAW is in a world of hurt if this thing fails.

 

The UAW Ford department is right; Ford can hire replacement workers if wildcat strikes breakout (the UAW won't call strike).

 

The reason being that Ford and the UAW reached an agreement on a contract that is clearly more generous than the one negotiated with GM; no reasonable jury or judge or arbitration board would conclude that Ford negotiated in bad faith.

 

If, therefore, the union locals act in bad faith by calling wildcat strikes, Ford is undoubtedly within its rights, even under state and national labor relations laws, to hire replacement workers.

 

Whether they will or no, I can't say.

 

But I will say this: The UAW isn't getting a better deal than this, and if this deal falls through, it could be months of work under the OLD contract while Ford and the UAW try to concoct some combination of whatever that costs Ford no more than this package and will be acceptable to the UAW rank and file.

 

Ultimately, this is the case: This new contract is better than the old contract, and with Ford having negotiated in good faith, it's likely the best contract that the UAW is gonna get. The longer the UAW rank and file work under the old contract, the more of the new contract they miss. The contract is going to end Sept. 1 2015 regardless of when it's ratified. Heck, Ford is probably saving money if they end up going back to the negotiating table for another 3-4 months (rest assured, if this fails, there won't be another vote until mid winter or later).

 

The rank and file may not like it, but, hey, life is full of stuff we don't like.

I'd have to say it's even odds that these idiots will strike. In fact, I read that Settles said that in the event the contract is turned down they'll give Ford 72 hours notice of their intent to walk. That said, they're still idiots to turn this down, and many of us on the outside, who have been union supporters, will turn against them. I'm already NOT on speaking terms with my hourly retiree parents; of course, I said that I hope Ford breaks the union, so they might have a teeny tiny reason to be pissed at me <grin>. Still, I'm done saying one kind word about these people. They are the most unrealistic people I've ever run into, and that includes members of my own family.

[Harley Lover]

Coming soon: Examples of King's irresponsible rhetoric.

To what end? Anyone who has been paying attention should be able to recall his grandstanding rhetoric. We've seen enough garbage thinking demonstrated by Gary Walkowicz and his ilk, do we need to see King's again?

[Edstock]

Wherever he's buried, ol' Walter Reuther is turning in his grave — at 7,000 rpm, maybe more.

[Deanh]

These sort of problems didn't occur with the C170 Focus assembled at Wayne last year.

 

I blame management, not the UAW, vis a vis the Focus: I think they totally misjudged the complexity of switching to C2 and "One Ford", and I hope they're learning daily what they screwed up and how.

 

Frankly, it looks like we not only got a EU engineered platform, we also got EU build quality. And I'm wondering what higher-up decided to release clearly defective vehicles from the batch/hold when they refused to do this with the Flex, Edge, and new Taurus.

I think its isolated and probably rectified now, like i have repeatedly said...Ive witnessed NO issues and I dont think they are built a different way for California...

[Len_A]

Wherever he's buried, ol' Walter Reuther is turning in his grave — at 7,000 rpm, maybe more.

He may spin even faster, if push comes to shove and these current group of idiots damage the union more than they already have!!!

[Deanh]

Another thing:

 

I blame Bob King.

 

The man came in after Gettelfinger ranting and roaring and stirring up discontent over blue collar concessions and executive pay.

 

Employee discontent with Mulally's pay has ALWAYS been an issue, but King stoked that flame into a raging fire.

 

If employees vote against this contract because it falls short of his incendiary rhetoric, well, he's getting what he earned.

 

You can't take do everything short of hang Mulally and Bill Ford in effigy and then deliver a generous but far from extravagant contract to members in whom you've stoked a bloodlust.

 

Coming soon: Examples of King's irresponsible rhetoric.

if the extremists realize that if they vote no, theres a good chance the NEXT offer will be worse, they could in fact turn their pitchforks HIS way...hes doing them ZERO justice right now....I would laugh my ass off if there was amass exodus from the UAW, and Ford gave them the offer thats on the table now, and then gave the UAW members less of an offer....right now its the cart thinking they can lead the horse...

Edited October 13, 2011 by Deanh

[atomcat68]

I have always bought Ford for the past 30 years. I am the only Democrat in a family of Republicans who blast unions and who support corporations actions when they cut pay and benefits by saying it's a global market , "and if you can't compete..."

 

I have had so many fights with them about this. If Everyone in this country is reduced to making minimum wage, how are the rich going to make money if no one can afford their products.

 

I was so proud that Ford did not take the bailout money. But now it seems that GM will win by doing the wrong thing, but that argument is for another time.

 

To the UAW who I defended tirelessly...

I work for a major retailer of electronics in the warehouse.(I'm sure you can guess who as they are the only one left). I make 13.27 an hour. I have a fraction of the benefits you have and they now took away most of the employee discount. (which didn't do me any good as I can't afford that stuff anyway. I despise that job and I would love to have a union represent me. During holiday seasons, I work until the skin peels off my hands. I have had stress fractures on my arms and worked with them. My department constantly gets cut, so I do the work of 5 people minimum. I hate my job with a passion! I am there because the places I worked before (small businesses) had to close the doors because they "can't compete" My employer can fire you at will and never needs to give you an excuse. It's what you get with "at will employment". One benefit you don't have to worry about. Yes, I could quit, but as you all may find out, most jobs are like this and not like yours.

 

Despite that, I do the best job I can do. I treat my "menial" job with the same care as you would want a doctor caring for your mother or the same care an airline pilot operates the airplane your family is on. If I am there, I will do the best work I can possibly do. If I am doing a job, I am going to treat it as the most important job in the world.

 

I am trying to sell my sitcom and spent my life savings on it because that is a job I feel passionate about and want to do for the rest of my life. (it's on my face book link.) That job would also get me union representation (SAG and WGA) But I treat my work in both these jobs the same. I work to a goal of excellence.

 

I would never treat my job like the Focus is being built and I wouldn't think of striking against my employer if they were offering me a better pay then the other stores and better benefits. If the auto workers of Ford strike, then I regard it as a slap in my face and I will never support you again! Your actions make you who you are! If you don't like to build cars, then move on and take another job. Hell, I'll trade with you! If you choose to strike, then maybe a Honda will be parked in my driveway next time! ( or maybe a Mexican or Canadian built Ford). Worst of all, you will only reward GM for doing the wrong and immoral thing!

 

Pioneer, you did the right thing. You may not like the situation, but like me, I think you want to do your best. I wish you good luck.

[akirby]

I'm wondering, if the rank and file vote down this deal, does Ford have to do anything right away?

The previous contract has been extended while bargaining and voting takes place,

so what's to stop Ford from saying to UAW bargaining team:

 

"OK, let's keep things the way they are for now, go back to your members and convince them this is the best deal they're going to get.

We have to know by (this date) otherwise our scheduling for US products is in jeopardy. Be aware that if you can't convince them to

take this deal by the deadline, there will still be expansion in the USA but not as much as we planned..."

 

I think that's way more likely than either side pulling the pin right away. Ford may be willing to make some minor changes but all they'll be doing is moving some money from one pot to the other and if that's the case you have to question if it's really worth it. But if that's all it takes to swing a few votes then it would probably happen.

 

I really think at some point if the UAW leadership and Ford agree to a contract the members either work under that contract or they can leave and get replaced by someone who will. I understand why they want the members to ratify it - to keep the UAW leadership from selling them out - but at some point they need to acknowledge that the UAW negotiators know what they're doing.

[weiweishen]

Following was a news posted in 2005 about how Alan deal with Boeing's strike. I think he can handle UAW strike.

 

The Boeing Co.'s striking Machinists union made demands that would have cost the company more than $1 billion above its final offer, Boeing Commercial Airplanes boss Alan Mulally said Thursday.

In a message to Boeing managers in the Puget Sound area, Portland and Wichita, Kan., Mulally said he is hopeful that the weeklong strike in those three areas will be a short one. But he also acknowledged that the two sides left the bargaining table far apart.

No talks are scheduled, Mulally said.

The last strike against Boeing by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, District 751, lasted 10 weeks. That was in 1995.

"Our hope is for a short work stoppage with minimal impact on our communities and our relationship with them (the strikers)," Mulally said.

But he hinted there may be no quick settlement.

"When union negotiators say the two sides were 'miles apart,' they are correct," Mulally said in the message. "Having barely moved off their original position, union negotiators were demanding more than $1 billion more than what was in our best and final offer. Their position did not reflect the current market for pay and benefits and far exceeded any recent contract settlements in the industry."

In an update posted Thursday on its Web site, the union did not specifically address Mulally's message, but did say:

"Regardless of what Boeing says to their managers, 86 percent of our members said the company did not come close to meeting our expectations on pension, health care, job security and a number of other issues. The fact is their final offer is a smaller economic and benefit package than the 2002 contract."

Mulally, in his message, said that "while the divide between our offer and the union's extreme positions is large, it is in everyone's best interest to resolve this situation as quickly as possible."

He said the company is "always willing to discuss reasonable proposals around that offer which support our mutual goals and our long-term business plans and obligations."

The strike by the union's 18,400 members, of which more than 16,000 are in the Puget Sound area, has shut down Boeing's 737 production at its Renton plant and 747, 777 and 767 production at the Everett plant.

Some industry analysts have said the strike is likely to delay the delivery of as many as 30 or more jets if it lasts until the end of September. Mulally said Boeing will do all it can to help customers get the airplanes they need, short of actually building the planes.

"The strike is particularly damaging for them (customers) because they are just beginning to recover from a prolonged downturn in a fragile market," Mulally said. "We are looking at a variety of ways to support our customers' needs for airplanes during the strike, and we are examining all our options for recovering delivery schedules in a post-strike environment. Our support for in-service Boeing airplanes remains a top priority."

Mulally said Boeing has managed an "orderly" shutdown of its jetliner production since the strike began, and its suppliers have done what they need to do to manage their businesses.

"While we do not know how long the strike will last, we're confident that we are taking the right steps to enable a smooth restart of production sometime in the future," Mulally said.

The strike began a week ago today, three days after Boeing made its final offer.

The company made a number of concessions during the contract talks, Mulally said.

"We moved substantially from our initial positions on retirement, medical and wages," Mulally said. "And we structured various features of our offer to provide maximum flexibility to reduce the impact of our medical plan changes and allow employees to save for retirement. We also offered an incentive pay program requested by the union that shares the company's success with up to three weeks extra pay annually."

Boeing's final offer would have raised the pension multiplier for Machinists from $60 a month for each year of service to $66, which matched what was agreed to by Lockheed Martin in its most recent contract with its Machinists.

Mulally called that $66 figure the "industry's highest benchmark."

He disclosed that the union was seeking more than a 33 percent increase in pension benefits. The union had not previously said what it was asking, only that Boeing could easily afford another $20 above the $60 multiplier. Heading into the contract talks, better pension benefits was the union's top priority.

Mulally said the union also wanted a multimillion dollar contribution to the union's own pension plan and a 50 percent increase in Boeing's VIP savings plan match.

"While the union requested no general wage increases, its position on lump sum wage payments was even more extreme that its retirement demands," Mulally said.

In its final offer, Boeing offered union members in the Puget Sound area and Portland two lump sum cash bonuses of $3,000 each, which Boeing said could be rolled into its 401(k) retirement plan for a 50 percent company match, or another $3,000.

The union leadership has called Boeing's final offer "insulting," saying it was even worse than the last contract, in 2002, when the industry was in the downturn and Boeing was cutting thousands of jobs.

In a vote on the three-year contract offer Sept. 1, 86 percent approved the strike, according to the union.

Boeing's commercial jetliner business is having a banner sales year and is poised to beat rival Airbus in jetliner orders for the first time since 2000. Nearly 600 orders have been won so far in 2005. Mulally said "improved competitiveness" is the main reason for Boeing's recent success.

"Given all that we have accomplished over the past several years to make Boeing more competitive, we would be doing a disservice to every current and future employee, customer, shareholder, and our communities if we agreed to an offer that eroded our ability to compete," Mulally said.

"Accommodating the union positions would have done just that. In the end, it was a bridge too far for our bargaining team and our business plan."

[Len_A]

It will be very interesting to see what approach the President will take on this if the UAW strikes.

He'll take no approach at all.

[povertyknob]

I think that's way more likely than either side pulling the pin right away. Ford may be willing to make some minor changes but all they'll be doing is moving some money from one pot to the other and if that's the case you have to question if it's really worth it. But if that's all it takes to swing a few votes then it would probably happen.

 

I really think at some point if the UAW leadership and Ford agree to a contract the members either work under that contract or they can leave and get replaced by someone who will. I understand why they want the members to ratify it - to keep the UAW leadership from selling them out - but at some point they need to acknowledge that the UAW negotiators know what they're doing.

While Mr. King may have used poor judgement with his complaining about Mullaly's compensation earlier this summer , I don't see him (King) as the problem right now. There are dissidents within the UAW-mostly at plants that have plenty of work-doing a lot of rabble rousing at the moment..It's almost like they're trying to pick apart every line of the contract and one wonders if their intent is to discredit Bob King. I was discussing the contract on a forum with a seemingly bright fellow, and I kid you not.....I got the impression he felt like a no vote was his way of standing up for"truth, justice and the American way"...

As to trusting the negotiators, I think the dissident faction may have poisoned the well on that one too.FWIW there is such an enormous gap between the perceived realities of the 'yes' and "no " factions that it could cause some real problems in the UAW going forward.

[RichardJensen]

I don't see him (King) as the problem right now.

No. He's not the problem *now*

 

 

Bob King is a camper who didn't put out a fire.

 

He's not the problem *now*, in the same way a camper that starts a forest fire isn't responsible for its ultimate extent.

 

King is responsible for failing to moderate his tone, for failing to appreciate the consequences of his actions as UAW president, and generally failing to demonstrate the maturity his position demands

[Deanh]

No. He's not the problem *now*

 

 

Bob King is a camper who didn't put out a fire.

 

He's not the problem *now*, in the same way a camper that starts a forest fire isn't responsible for its ultimate extent.

 

King is responsible for failing to moderate his tone, for failing to appreciate the consequences of his actions as UAW president, and generally failing to demonstrate the maturity his position demands

agreed....I remember the initial chestbumping postering....I thought to myself...you have GOT to be kidding me...hasnt worked out too well has it...no academy award here gents, the "acting" was un-necessary, illguided and mis-placed....I beleive, if anything hes done his members an in-justice, ford played nice, sutures will be needed to close the gunshot wound in the foot...

Edited October 13, 2011 by Deanh

[povertyknob]

agreed....I remember the initial chestbumping postering....I thought to myself...you have GOT to be kidding me...hasnt worked out too well has it...no academy award here gents, the "acting" was un-necessary, illguided and mis-placed....I beleive, if anything hes done his members an in-justice, ford played nice, sutures will be needed to close the gunshot wound in the foot...

I'm not a bob king fan boy at all. His rhetoric was unnecessary and inflammatory. But he and the IUAW negotiators sat down and hammered out a contract that should be good for both the company and the union, took it to the membership, and asked them to vote it in. From that point forward the flames have been fanned not by King but by dissidents within the UAW. It will take a heck of an effort for the IUAW to calm down the boys with the pitchforks.

[Deanh]

I'm not a bob king fan boy at all. His rhetoric was unnecessary and inflammatory. But he and the IUAW negotiators sat down and hammered out a contract that should be good for both the company and the union, took it to the membership, and asked them to vote it in. From that point forward the flames have been fanned not by King but by dissidents within the UAW. It will take a heck of an effort for the IUAW to calm down the boys with the pitchforks.

question, and nothing inflamatory.....why does the UAW feel they deserve more from Ford than GM and Chrysler?.....