The lap of luxury: Redefining 'personal' cars in the land of Lincoln

[timmm55]

The first thought that came to my mind was the Mark series. I'd love to see it come out as the Mark X and sit on a RWD chassis with 5.0L under the hood. With one of Lincoln's underrated interiors and some eye popping style, it could be the "gotta have it" product that Lincoln needs.

 

I can't help thinking (and hoping) with the work going on with the Aussie Falcon and the timing of the next Mustang, something is going on here with a Lincoln too.

 

http://www.egmcartech.com/2011/07/02/fpv-introduces-falcon-gt-concept-with-supercharged-boss-5-0-v8/

 

Motor Trend says no to all that, not sure how reliable that is though.

http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1001_next_ford_mustang_going_global/

[RichardJensen]

I understand Lincoln doesn't need to chase volume but there has to be some viability for dealerships also.

I agree, but I also think that a fair bit of this year over year decline is due to dealer consolidation.

 

Ford is losing points of sale for the Lincoln brand, even as they've not fully implemented a new scheme for increasing volume at remaining dealerships.

 

I am, therefore, a bit philosophical about Lincoln's YTD numbers, noting that they're not *worst in class* despite Lincoln having, probably, the worst dealership situation in the segment.

Edited December 22, 2011 by RichardJensen

[Edstock]

Here you and it doesn't change the fact that Lincoln sales don't measure up.

That's right. IMHO, styling mis-cues, the similarity of the MKZ to the Fusion, and the lack of high-performance versions of the MKZ/X with the EB 3.5 are probably responsible.

 

 

But now there's a new team, with a new leader and really new product on the way.

 

 

 

 

 

[stpatrick90]

I agree, but I also think that a fair bit of this year over year decline is due to dealer consolidation.

 

Ford is losing points of sale for the Lincoln brand, even as they've not fully implemented a new scheme for increasing volume at remaining dealerships.

 

I am, therefore, a bit philosophical about Lincoln's YTD numbers, noting that they're not *worst in class* despite Lincoln having, probably, the worst dealership situation in the segment.

 

I completely understand and agree that the current dealership situation is making matters worse. I also think that despite people hating on some of the current Lincolns that they are actually quite competitive and truly good cars. I love my MKS and compared to a E-Class or 5 Series it is every bit as well built and offers almost as many features for considerably less (only downside is that it rides/handles a bit worse but that is being remedied with the new MKS). I am quite optimistic that with a refreshed lineup and a complete dealership consolidation that Lincoln can succeed.

[RichardJensen]

One of the things Mulally said when he was hired was that it was best to hit bottom as quickly as possible, because the climb up is a lot more fun than the ride down. I think we're seeing that with Lincoln.

 

Bottom out the brand, edge out the marginal dealers, and establish a solid core that you can start from.

 

Worked very well for Ford c. 2006/2007

Edited December 22, 2011 by RichardJensen

[BORG]

I think the under-told story with Lincoln is that they have raised prices and cut incentives BIG time. Owning a Lincoln now is much more expensive than it was back in the hay-day. So every Lincoln owner now didn't buy them because they were looking for a deal (unless you're a Mercury customer buying an MKZ). I know I was willing to spend big money to get my hands on the 2011 MKX, I can't remember the last time I bought a Lincoln that was so desirable to me that I would pay anything for it. I think that's the type of Lincoln you want to have and we are getting there. Lincoln is not the cheapest option and I personally don't want to be part of a bargain luxury brand, I want a confident Lincoln!

Edited December 22, 2011 by BORG

[mercury]

That's right. IMHO, styling mis-cues, the similarity of the MKZ to the Fusion, and the lack of high-performance versions of the MKZ/X with the EB 3.5 are probably responsible.

 

 

But now there's a new team, with a new leader and really new product on the way.

 

 

The sun'll come out

Tomorrow

Bet your bottom dollar

That tomorrow

There'll be sun!

 

Just thinkin' about

Tomorrow

Clears away the cobwebs,

And the sorrow

'Til there's none!

 

When I'm stuck a day

That's gray,

And lonely,

I just stick out my chin

And Grin,

And Say,

Oh!

 

The sun'll come out

Tomorrow

So ya gotta hang on

'Til tomorrow

Come what may

Tomorrow! Tomorrow!

I love ya Tomorrow!

You're always

A day

A way!

[GT-Keith]

My personal Lincoln:

 

2013 MKZ 3.0L Ecoboost ~300hp, 6MT, AWD. Tuxedo Black...

 

Any takers?

 

Do you think a perf. PKG is possible. Is there enough incentive for Ford to offer one.

[akirby]

My personal Lincoln:

 

2013 MKZ 3.0L Ecoboost ~300hp, 6MT, AWD. Tuxedo Black...

 

Any takers?

 

Do you think a perf. PKG is possible. Is there enough incentive for Ford to offer one.

 

I'm thinking 2.5L hybrid, 3.7L base engines with 3.5L EB AWD as the top of the line model. Possibly a 2.7L hybrid or 2.7EB base engine instead of the 3.7L.

[2b2]

^^

may as well finish off the page

with

2.7v6 ~230hp & 2.7EB upto 350hp

 

not sure what I'd reco for a Hybrid

maybe a 1.6EB-PlugInHybrid with about 210hp total?

 

imho the Nano is why they're delaying the launch

Edited December 23, 2011 by 2b2

[FordBuyer]

 

 

Here you and it doesn't change the fact that Lincoln sales don't measure up. I understand Lincoln doesn't need to chase volume but there has to be some viability for dealerships also.

 

Uh, Ford Motor Company is a high volume seller of vehicles. It's not Ferrari or Porsche. Most of its plants produce upwards of 300,000vehicles/year and if not they are below capacity. I believe Ford has already stated that it hopes to get Lincoln sales up to at least 150,000/year in next few years if its turnaround is successful. If Lincoln is still selling 70,000 vehicles/year a few years from now, I doubt very much if Ford will continue to fund the Lincoln brand. It will end up like Mercury. So volume/sales do matter unless Lincoln is moving into ultra luxury/price territory. I doubt it since even after all the Lincoln dealers are pruned, there will still be far more Lincoln dealers than other ultra luxury brands. A really nice MKEscape and Explorer should put Lincoln sales into Cadillac territory in a few years.

[Edstock]

The sun'll come out

Tomorrow

Until it doesn't, approx. 4 billion years from now, when it turns into a dim dwarf. Then approx. 2-3 billion years later, it will dissolve as the protons disintegrate. Whatever Lincolns look like at that time, they'll be driven under a different sun.

[BORG]

Until it doesn't, approx. 4 billion years from now, when it turns into a dim dwarf. Then approx. 2-3 billion years later, it will dissolve as the protons disintegrate. Whatever Lincolns look like at that time, they'll be driven under a different sun.

 

Gratuitous POTW!

[jpd80]

Sometimes it seems like people are looking at where Lincoln has been and is currently but cannot see

that future Lincolns will have different design and features, feel and drive completely differently.

 

IMO, Ford Titanium will be where Lincoln is now and the new Lincolns will be next level up with unique bodies.

All of that bodes well for attracting buyers from other marques but also becomes more aspirational for Ford buyers

who are considering graduating from high series Ford brand into Lincoln, it is those people that Ford needs to nurture..

Edited December 23, 2011 by jpd80

[FordBuyer]

Sometimes it seems like people are looking at where Lincoln has been and is currently but cannot see

that future Lincolns will have different design and features, feel and drive completely differently.

 

IMO, Ford Titanium will be where Lincoln is now and the new Lincolns will be next level up with unique bodies.

All of that bodes well for attracting buyers from other marques but also becomes more aspirational for Ford buyers

who are considering graduating from high series Ford brand into Lincoln, it is those people that Ford needs to nurture..

 

 

Looks like Lincoln exclusives will be push button (touch pad) auto trans, CCD suspensions, and retractable glass tops. I imagine a couple Ford branded vehicles will get CCD also, but probably not many at least initially. I would imagine a couple of other surprises also. Lincoln should also get Ford's new 8 speed auto being built at LTP and make that a Lincoln exclusive at least initially. You have to give people someting for their premium priced dollars and of course exclusive treatment by Lincoln dealers. Free loaners and picking up car at home or work should be part of package.

[Mark B. Morrow]

Looks like Lincoln exclusives will be push button (touch pad) auto trans, CCD suspensions, and retractable glass tops. I imagine a couple Ford branded vehicles will get CCD also, but probably not many at least initially. I would imagine a couple of other surprises also. Lincoln should also get Ford's new 8 speed auto being built at LTP and make that a Lincoln exclusive at least initially. You have to give people someting for their premium priced dollars and of course exclusive treatment by Lincoln dealers. Free loaners and picking up car at home or work should be part of package.

 

 

I think you're exactly right. Lincoln will move toward the Lexus model of providing some unique features unavailable on Fords and a much more exclusive dealership experience.

 

This may help explain the decision to end Mercury since it would be hard to differentiate Lincoln and the "Lincoln experience" when you have Mercury on the same floor. I would also expect the Ford-Lincoln combinations to move to separate buildings as Lexus does from Toyota-Scion. Ford will probably give current combo dealers some slack until Lincoln's revival is complete.

[silvrsvt]

imho the Nano is why they're delaying the launch

 

Ford didn't put out in the last contact who is building the Nano, which to means to me that its not coming in the next 24 months...

 

Expect it have the 3.5L the new Hybrid shared with the Fusion and maybe a ecoboost 3.5L

[Kris Kolman]

"Personal luxury concept" sounds like a Audi A7 or Mercedes CLS... A MKS based 4-door coupe with lower roof and fastback profile. Problem is that this is another in a long line of styling exersizes. How can Lincoln be a success if every three years it changes its mind.

 

The real question for Lincoln is going to be answered with the execution of the upcomming small MKs... Both the MKFocus and MKEscape, followed closely by the MKZ replacement. If successful this would stabilize Lincoln as it works thru the dealer network. Execution is going to be the key, but the only question marks I have with the current Lincoln lineup in the near term is the MKT and Navigator along with a potential MKExplorer. Once stabilized I think Lincoln needs to decide if it wants to chase the German brands. If so I think the MKS is where the current lineup starts to fall apart. The problem is that without a whole new bespoke large luxury sedan platform I don't think Lincoln can compete one-on-one with the Germans. Another angle is to decide that like PAG was chasing the Germans is a fruitless effort... To instead imagine Lincoln as an elevated Acura or Buick, both in terms of product lines, equipment levels, prices, and dealer experience.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Kris Kolman

[Edstock]

To instead imagine Lincoln as an elevated Acura or Buick, both in terms of product lines, equipment levels, prices, and dealer experience.

Kris —

 

You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that you are short-changing the Lincoln brand when you suggest that it can be "an elevated Acura or Buick" — because there is an implicit "not the best, but good enough", in that limitation.

 

 

And that's not good enough. Considering that the creator of Lincoln started Cadillac as a brand, well, you should know better.

 

Instead, imagine Lincoln as an elevated AUDI, with "bespoke" optioning to give VW's Bentley division something to ponder.

 

Now that's a goal that Lincoln might not reach, but nobody said it was going to be easy, but compared to "an elevated Acura or Buick", I know which direction I'd like to see.

 

"an elevated Acura or Buick" They look so good on a hoist, don't they?

 

 

[FordBuyer]

Kris —

 

You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that you are short-changing the Lincoln brand when you suggest that it can be "an elevated Acura or Buick" — because there is an implicit "not the best, but good enough", in that limitation.

 

 

And that's not good enough. Considering that the creator of Lincoln started Cadillac as a brand, well, you should know better.

 

Instead, imagine Lincoln as an elevated AUDI, with "bespoke" optioning to give VW's Bentley division something to ponder.

 

Now that's a goal that Lincoln might not reach, but nobody said it was going to be easy, but compared to "an elevated Acura or Buick", I know which direction I'd like to see.

 

"an elevated Acura or Buick" They look so good on a hoist, don't they?

 

Hopefully Ford has sent some of its people to a Lexus, MB, BMW, and Porsche/Audi dealer to buy one of their cars and then researched the experience and dealership experience after purchase to see how different it is from more conventional dealerhip like Ford/Chevy. What is the same and what is different from architecture, signage, ambience, customer luxuries, dealer service area, and so on. It certainly sounds like they have done their homework, and I hope they can pull off the luxury experince from dealership to vehicle itself. That being said, I expect the new MKZ to be a WOW vehicle compared to anything Lincoln has built in many years. Really get your attention outside and inside with exceptional options list and standard features along with outstanding engine options. To go against the likes of Audi/BMW, Lincoln must have a vehicle like this. The new MKZ needs to blow our socks off. Lincoln needs a game changer.

[pictor]

I have both an Audi and Ford and to be honest the Audi experience does stand out from the Ford experience from a buying perspective. The Audi dealership was more attractive but the personal experience was about the same. Anytime wasted at a dealership is time not doing something I have to or would like to do. I know with some people want to be pampered, but for me, I just want to get to the point and move on. LIke music, if you cant' it say it with three chords, your wasting my time.

 

 

quote name='FordBuyer' timestamp='1324737597' post='752806']

Hopefully Ford has sent some of its people to a Lexus, MB, BMW, and Porsche/Audi dealer to buy one of their cars and then researched the experience and dealership experience after purchase to see how different it is from more conventional dealerhip like Ford/Chevy. What is the same and what is different from architecture, signage, ambience, customer luxuries, dealer service area, and so on. It certainly sounds like they have done their homework, and I hope they can pull off the luxury experince from dealership to vehicle itself. That being said, I expect the new MKZ to be a WOW vehicle compared to anything Lincoln has built in many years. Really get your attention outside and inside with exceptional options list and standard features along with outstanding engine options. To go against the likes of Audi/BMW, Lincoln must have a vehicle like this. The new MKZ needs to blow our socks off. Lincoln needs a game changer.

[akirby]

Hopefully Ford has sent some of its people to a Lexus, MB, BMW, and Porsche/Audi dealer to buy one of their cars and then researched the experience and dealership experience after purchase to see how different it is from more conventional dealerhip like Ford/Chevy.

 

Did you completely miss the part where Lincoln hired a team of 100 people to oversee the turnaround - and most of them came from Lexus, Audi and other luxury brands?

[Kris Kolman]

You're entitled to your opinion. Mine is that you are short-changing the Lincoln brand when you suggest that it can be "an elevated Acura or Buick" — because there is an implicit "not the best, but good enough", in that limitation.

 

I appreciate the desire to see what Lincoln could be, or once was, but I think we need to face what it is now currently. Lincoln's past is the just that... Even more so it is ancient history to the core age of luxury car market new buyers who weren't even alive until the dark days of the 70's. Ford unfortunatly didn't keep Lincoln competitive in the 70's thru the 90's as the overseas brands established not only a foothold, but build defensive groundworks. Lincoln has a massive image and marketing problem as a result. Gen Xers like myself picture a bloated, floaty, underwelming boat when we picture Lincoln. And considering luxury type equipment is no longer exclusive (can get almost anything on a Focus) Lincoln has lost all advantages.

 

Something I think that should be defined is that the luxury car market has shattered: There are now standard luxury cars, and the executive cars. Luxury cars are epitimized by the hgih selling Lexus ES. Where the driving experience isn't a high priority, and equipement levels and dealer experience are key. Executive cars on the other hand are epitimized by the BMW 5 series. Executive cars are considered drivers cars, esentially sport sedans. The problem Ford is going to be faced with is that to compete one-on-one with the German executive cars Lincoln is going to have an extreme investment in a new luxury car platform. For Lincoln to be considered seriously in the executive car market against the BMW 5-series, Mercedes E-class, and Audi A6 (even Jaguar XF) it will need a bespoke luxury platform. The MKS has been on market long enough to make a dent in the segment, but the sales comparison makes it clear that it hasn't. It sells half that of the A6, a third that of the 5-series, and a fifth of the E-Series... What is more telling is that this is only NA sales, and those others are sold worldwide. When wolrdwide sales are considered the sales of the competitors triple. So this is the problem... The executive car segment buyers are quite aware of name brand, and insist on a level of bespoke that Lincoln is going to need a new independant platform. But by only selling in NA Lincoln has a very limited reach and even if they doubled the sales of the MKS Lincoln would have difficulty justifying the expense.

 

Thing is that I don't think Lincoln needs to address this decision right away, and the near term problem is the dealer issues related to the retiring Mercury. And thankfull I don't think this problem extends to the rest of the market. Lincoln could compete in the luxury SUV and standard luxury segements with a platform sharing stategy: MKFocus, MKFusion (MKZ), MKEscape, MKEdge (MKX), and MKExplorer all shouldn't have a problem. The platform problem comes into play when we talk about the MKTaurus (MKS)... Lincoln and the dealers could be solidly profitable with those 5 core vehicles (plus MKT and/or Navigator) with the MKS in its current form. But the MKS would in the end be considered something along the lines of the Buick Lacrosse and Acura RL.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Kris Kolman

[Extreme4x4]

If the cars/utes look great, drive great, and people get a 1st class buying/owning experience............................. Lincoln will do great.

 

So many on these forums seem to forget that we are enthusiasts, and are not close to the average buyer. It doesn't matter if it is a BMW buyer, an Audi buyer, or a Jaguar buyer. They want looks and prestige and a more exclusive ownership experience. They want to be pampered by their vehicle, and the dealership. They want to be made to "feel" important. The vast majority of them do not know what platform their luxury car is built on, and again, the vast majority do not even know what tires drive the vehicle...................... unless it is AWD which they look for specifically.

 

I think that many of us give these luxury buyers too much credit. We think they are uber enthusiasts who are chasing performance numbers to go with the badge. The reality being that for many, the badge is all that matters. In that respect, it will take time for Lincoln to make inroads. However, for those who buy a luxury car to actually own a luxury car, Lincoln will be able to sway them.

 

Lexus had no name, no history, and derivative products when they started. Everyone thought they were nuts, and that noone would give them a chance. Their fast ascention to the top shocked most. It can be done.

 

I will not comment on any other Lincoln thread until after the MKZ is revealed. I am in their target market, and a Lincoln could be in my future for a daily driver. Thus, instead of getting frustrated reading the same negativity over and over, like nothing can and will never change........................... I will look at giving Lincoln a chance, and see what they come up with.

[sullynd]

Lexus had no name, no history, and derivative products when they started.

 

Lexus launched with two products, and only one of them was "derivative".

 

The LS was their "moonshot" and what gave them some level of credibility.