goinbroke2 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 What bothers me a little is that when you had thousands of these units sitting in holding areas waiting for OK stickers, and during batch and hold, SOMEONE would have noticed some oil leaks and/or some fuel leaks especially the smell of fuel. I hope it's not true, but you get the feeling the workers at LAP either don't care and look away, or just don't pay attention at all to let defective units ship to dealers. It would only take one employee to spot something amiss and catch it in time before shipping. ONE worker. For that matter, I've never gotten good vibes from MAP either. Trash all over parking lots and so many employee cars in lots non Ford products. I'm sorry, but looks like Hermosillo is Ford's showcase plant. Can you smell a scratch on a line? Can you spot an oil leak from a fuel line? Can you spot or smell a fuel leak on a line that isn't leaking yet? Really, the sky is not falling. These lines had a defect (scratch) that was bad enough that when the vehicle is running and the fuel pressure is at 40+psi, it ruptures..eventually. It might go while still at the plant (two did this) or it might not spring a leak until it's bought and driving down the road. (happened once) Stop all the fake drama (ooh the sky is falling, the workers don't care! AAAHHH) How about dozens of these are sitting there, some have 1.6's and some are 2.0, and NONE OF THEM ARE LEAKING. Then somebody moves one and there is a fire. Start to investigate and another one catches...now there is an issue. Then a woman calls and says HER's caught fire. CRAP!! Find out they're all 1.6 eco's and call a stop. Little different then your version of escapes hemorraging fuel/oil/radiation/toxic chemicals/etc while everybody walks by and says "eh who cares, ford sucks I just work here because I have to, I drive a toyota". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 He was referencing the "last generation" Escape (2008-2012)...which had 4 recalls from 2008 to 2012. The 2013 Escape...which is "The smarter way to get there" according to Ford's web site, has had two already....in a single week. Saying the 2008-2012 Escape is a 'different generation' than the 2001-2007 is kinda like saying the 1999-2004 Mustang is a different generation than the 1994-1998, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Saying the 2008-2012 Escape is a 'different generation' than the 2001-2007 is kinda like saying the 1999-2004 Mustang is a different generation than the 1994-1998, don't you think? Well I have to say again smart folks don't buy the first year of a new product back in 04 I was fairly stupid and bought a new f-150 and paid dearly.. My confidence in ford is fairly low and none of this is surprising to me?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Well I have to say again smart folks don't buy the first year of a new product Every 06 Fusion owner would disagree with you. Your anecdotal evidence is no better than anyone else's. Edited July 20, 2012 by akirby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 The vast majority of first-year product buyers will have no less a good experience than those who wait. After all, part of the appeal of owning a first year product is having something nobody else does. There's a price many are willing to pay for that...sometimes in the form of an additional recall or two, which typically don't take your vehicle off the road for weeks at a time like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Can you smell a scratch on a line? Can you spot an oil leak from a fuel line? Can you spot or smell a fuel leak on a line that isn't leaking yet? Really, the sky is not falling. These lines had a defect (scratch) that was bad enough that when the vehicle is running and the fuel pressure is at 40+psi, it ruptures..eventually. It might go while still at the plant (two did this) or it might not spring a leak until it's bought and driving down the road. (happened once) Stop all the fake drama (ooh the sky is falling, the workers don't care! AAAHHH) How about dozens of these are sitting there, some have 1.6's and some are 2.0, and NONE OF THEM ARE LEAKING. Then somebody moves one and there is a fire. Start to investigate and another one catches...now there is an issue. Then a woman calls and says HER's caught fire. CRAP!! Find out they're all 1.6 eco's and call a stop. Little different then your version of escapes hemorraging fuel/oil/radiation/toxic chemicals/etc while everybody walks by and says "eh who cares, ford sucks I just work here because I have to, I drive a toyota". Talk about a drama queen. All I said is when they batched and loaded the 1.6 EB probably even more than more proven 2.0, you would think someone would notice an oil leak or better yet fuel leak after driving the hell out of it during their tests right after build since both parts were later proven defective. When I drive my cars, I notice every little vibration, rattle, noise, and spotting on driveway except for water from condenser on these very hot days. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if some disgruntled, inattentive, entitled employee missed the problems entirely. I know not all their employees are problem employees after the downsizing, but they are still there and it's naive to think they are still not there. You better believe Ford does internal scoring and ranking of its plants, and more than a couple times Ford has stated that Hermosillo is way ahead of others in productivity and quality. Fusion is consistently Ford's best quality vehicle year after year. Let's see how the new Fusion launch goes and compare it to LAP and MAP recent launches. Fricking sad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The vast majority of first-year product buyers will have no less a good experience than those who wait. After all, part of the appeal of owning a first year product is having something nobody else does. There's a price many are willing to pay for that...sometimes in the form of an additional recall or two, which typically don't take your vehicle off the road for weeks at a time like this one. There is also another price to pay and that is design flaws that don't show up for 3yrs or so when warranty runs out?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Talk about a drama queen. All I said is when they batched and loaded the 1.6 EB probably even more than more proven 2.0, you would think someone would notice an oil leak or better yet fuel leak after driving the hell out of it during their tests right after build since both parts were later proven defective. When I drive my cars, I notice every little vibration, rattle, noise, and spotting on driveway except for water from condenser on these very hot days. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if some disgruntled, inattentive, entitled employee missed the problems entirely. I know not all their employees are problem employees after the downsizing, but they are still there and it's naive to think they are still not there. You better believe Ford does internal scoring and ranking of its plants, and more than a couple times Ford has stated that Hermosillo is way ahead of others in productivity and quality. Fusion is consistently Ford's best quality vehicle year after year. Let's see how the new Fusion launch goes and compare it to LAP and MAP recent launches. Fricking sad. U r exactly right all one has to do is read the posts on these boards isn't too hard to tell how a lot of employees feel towards ford, is a miracle there r not more issues than there r!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jr.f Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Talk about a drama queen. All I said is when they batched and loaded the 1.6 EB probably even more than more proven 2.0, you would think someone would notice an oil leak or better yet fuel leak after driving the hell out of it during their tests right after build since both parts were later proven defective. When I drive my cars, I notice every little vibration, rattle, noise, and spotting on driveway except for water from condenser on these very hot days. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if some disgruntled, inattentive, entitled employee missed the problems entirely. I know not all their employees are problem employees after the downsizing, but they are still there and it's naive to think they are still not there. You better believe Ford does internal scoring and ranking of its plants, and more than a couple times Ford has stated that Hermosillo is way ahead of others in productivity and quality. Fusion is consistently Ford's best quality vehicle year after year. Let's see how the new Fusion launch goes and compare it to LAP and MAP recent launches. Fricking sad. As an LAP employee reading this I would LOVE to tell you how wrong you are on this!!! But i will take the high road and not say anything but, that you are ENTIRELY WRONG about the LAP workforce. So before you bash the workforce remember this, ALL WE can do is SHOW the problems, what Corporate Ford does with it another story. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 As an LAP employee reading this I would LOVE to tell you how wrong you are on this!!! But i will take the high road and not say anything but, that you are ENTIRELY WRONG about the LAP workforce. So before you bash the workforce remember this, ALL WE can do is SHOW the problems, what Corporate Ford does with it another story. So you can personally vouch for every one of the thousands of employees that spend either the day or night there as it operates on two shifts? That is amazing. And you can vouch for the internal testing that goes on for critical parts like fuel lines, and batch and load testing that tries to identify the bad parts as they work together on road? Wow. Didn't know Ford had any employee with that skill set. Like I said before, let's see how well Hermosillo does with its launch and see if new owners of Fusion have to park their new ride and wait for flat bed, and compare it to LAP and MAP launches. In fact, see if there is even one recall on Fusion first year compared to TWO in one week at LAP not even counting the faulty hose clamp. That being said, I've seen the new Escape at the dealer and exterior wise they look like first class build quality. Paint and fit and finish look good irrespective of interior complaints. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1rnvv86 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 So,who is guilty ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1rnvv86 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 So,who is guilty? http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=escape%202013%20fuel%20line%20supplier&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CHUQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.ford.com%2Fimages%2F10031%2FGlobalSuppliers_2013FordEscape.pdf&ei=opQKUJ-RGKqU6wHSs7STCg&usg=AFQjCNEB61JRVOBd2M2Ld8zZX3mUTv0pwQ&cad=rja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005Explorer Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Saying the 2008-2012 Escape is a 'different generation' than the 2001-2007 is kinda like saying the 1999-2004 Mustang is a different generation than the 1994-1998, don't you think? Well isn't the new Escape just a minor update of the previous generation Kuga? Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't the so called "all new" Escape already been in production for several years in other parts of the world? A couple recalls isn't really a huge deal, but Ford has done zero defect launches in the past with Fusion and Edge (and very few IIRC with the 2005 Five-Hundred) so it seems they know how to do it. As far as the 2008-2012 goes it was darn close to being a new generation. Other then the basic platform, floorpan and suspension how many parts and pieces were shared especially from 2009-2012? I know some will argue that the 2001 Escape is essentially the same vehicle as the 2012 Escape, but I doubt there are many pieces that would bolt from one to the other unless you want something that looks like a Johnny Cash Cadillac. Edited July 21, 2012 by 2005Explorer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 What the hell FordBuyer, lighten up. How can you say that every worker at LAP doesn't give a damn about their job, employer, product and quality. I'm sure there are some that don't care, that's the case everywhere, but to pin this problem on everyone at the plant is unfair. It's a supplier problem, point your finger at them. As far as the carpet issue, it's how plant management and Corporate reacted to it after they were made aware that will never be known. They may have tried to get away with it until a line worker who does care, had enough, couldn't keep quiet anymore and leaked the information. Have you ever thought that the problem of the fuel line and leaky seal doesn't show up until the car has been driven for more than 2 miles and at normal speeds. Not every vehicle gets tested beyond the low speed short track at the end of the assembly line, then short trips to the holding yard, to the train and on and off the truck. LAP workers and Ford don't want issues to occur that endanger customers or tarnish the launch of this or any vehicle, but things happen and that's the nature of complex machines, it's not a freakin' lawn mower. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transitman Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 So,who is guilty? http://www.google.ca...UTv0pwQ&cad=rja Huh, looks like a Bosch or Cooper Standard problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 There is also another price to pay and that is design flaws that don't show up for 3yrs or so when warranty runs out?? Please give us examples of "design flaws that don't show up for 3yrs or so". So, if this is something that scares you, you'll have to pay that price — an extended warranty. Have you considered therapy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1rnvv86 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 wonder how it will cost to the supplier or to ford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoser768 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Huh, looks like a Bosch or Cooper Standard problem. I don't think of them as big hose suppliers, I'd lean towards someone like Goodyear, Aeroquip or Parker. They could have supplied Bosch or Cooper with the hose that went onto a subassembly supplied to Ford. I still wonder what happened during assembly/manufacture to cause this issue. ( My username doesn't have anything to do with fact that I liked "Strange Brew" ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 So,who is guilty ? Louisville Assembly Plant manager John Savona, it's his responsibility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSchicago Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Ford is doing the right thing, handling the rental cars, insurance, etc. and even washing and filling up the fuel tanks before returning the Escapes! The guys who tow for the motorclubs are happy, they are getting lots of extra work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Ford is doing the right thing, handling the rental cars, insurance, etc. and even washing and filling up the fuel tanks before returning the Escapes! The guys who tow for the motorclubs are happy, they are getting lots of extra work. From the other thread: Lead story on local TV news today was young woman from Waterford fighting with Suburban Ford about getting a loaner in timely fashion. She's been waiting for two days for a loaner, and her one month old new Escape was her only source of transportation to get to work. So she's been driving it to her job last two days, and upset that finally after Ford dealer promising loaner car, they say she has to drive with flat bed operator back to dealership to pick it up. Kicker was only time they could get her was at 4PM when she is not home from work yet. Local news was on her for still driving it, but she said he had no choice. Very pretty girl, and she said no way was she driving alone with flad bed operator. Anyway, local news called the Glass House, and they jumped all over the place saying they would personally pick her up and make sure no Ford dealership makes customer wait two days and forces them to take ride in flat bed. Not sure how you can spin this into positive, even for the slappies on here. This is no good, if Ford is telling drivers to immediately stop driving their new cars and that they will be collected for repair work, then it should be their responsibility to deliver a loaner when the owner's car is picked up, if Ford can't do that then they fail. Ford really needs to look harder at their TGWs before delivery, I think they are back to getting volume out at launches and its ruining their good starts. Quality and customer safety must be priority one. End of story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) From the other thread: <text goes here> This is no good, if Ford is telling drivers to immediately stop driving their new cars and that they will be collected for repair work, then it should be their responsibility to deliver a loaner when the owner's car is picked up, if Ford can't do that then they fail. From the other thread: Dealers do more damage to Ford's reputation than this recall ever will. Taking two days to get a loaner is the dealer's fault, plain and simple. Further exacerbated by the fact the only contact with Ford Motor Company that most customers will ever have is with the dealers. Edited July 21, 2012 by papilgee4evaeva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 A lot of which is because Ford puts the screws to dealers, in an attempt to reduce Ford's costs on the warranty side. One of Jac the knife's goals was to reduce operating costs through the reduction of warranty payout. They cut labor times, parts handling allowances and all basic support of the dealer network they can in order to reduce those backside costs. Then they make the dealer meet goals for cheapness of repair, and if the dealer doesnt meet those lofty goals, then they audit the dealer. Audits often result in the dealer being charged back for the entire cost of the performed repair for minor issues with the paperwork, percieved cost overruns or 'over repair' or any other reason that they can come up with to charge the dealer back. Over repair is anything that they percieve as not needed. It can be as simple as a nut and bolt that is stripped to putting in a known failure part in addition to a repair. I.e. an early 6f35 comes in for a drive chain hoot. If the technician would put in a filter while doing the repair or a valvebody (known failure part) to keep the customer from having to come back in the future, it is considered overrepair and the claim will be denied. They have cut to the quick over and over. How willing to do your job would you be if they cut your paycheck over and over and over again? Ford needs to have a REAL 'comin to jeezus moment' over how they treat dealers and what they are willing to allow the dealer's techs to get paid. After all, you are right, the dealer is often the only contact the customer has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 If Ford hasn't figured out how to properly design a fuel line by now, they're in big trouble. cough, spark plug, cough 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenp77 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) Please give us examples of "design flaws that don't show up for 3yrs or so". So, if this is something that scares you, you'll have to pay that price — an extended warranty. Have you considered therapy? Guess u have been under a rock last 8yrs, will give u just 2 spark plugs and cam phasers 5.4 3V 04-07 when the heads were redesigned!! Edited July 22, 2012 by kenp77 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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