Source: Next-gen Flex dead, Conventional minivan coming

[LoveTaurus]

I was just going to say the same thing. If I wanted regular doors I would just look at regular CUVs/SUVs.

Same here.

Ford do not have minivan (Freestar was poorly designed) and nothing with sliders. I settled with the Freestyle. Still, I do want sliders.

[LoveTaurus]

Current minivans have tons of space behind 3rd row.

But all Ford CUVs don't have any behind 3rd space more than 21cu.ft.

Driving more than 3 passengers to the airport required to flip down part or both 3rd row seats to fit their luggage (for 3 people +/-).

[jpd80]

C-Max is not even in the same galaxy (pun intended) as the minivan in the U.S.. As a previous poster wrote, minivan buyers want sliders.

But htat's the thing while C-Max, S-Max and Galaxy are MPVs, they are a lot different to what the US normally considers to be a "minivan"

and if anything, they appear to be more like half breeds between a station wagons and an SUV-CUV, which makes them possibly more appealing.

 

 

The best thing Ford could do is spend a lot of time in the T&C, Sienna, and Odyssey, in order to understand those products. They are the segment leaders, plain and simple.

 

I'm convinced Ford has all the building blocks it needs to field a leading product for this segment, I guess time will tell.

I'm convinced that Ford isn't prepared to copy existing minivan types, instead preferring to pick up sales which fall just outside that

US minivan demographic, sales that can be filled by the available FoE product envelope. A plan like that would be a heck of a lot cheaper

than building a dedicated Us styled mini van, especially when Ford has the full sized Transit Tourneo there.and possibly for US production too.

Edited September 27, 2012 by jpd80

[ds91776]

jpd80, I understand where you are coming from when you say that you think Ford is going to think outside of the minivan box and create more of an MPV-style minivan for world markets as the Ford Galaxy, etc. However, I think you are forgetting China. Traditional Minivan sales ( much closer to the North American style ) are big business there. The Buick GL8 sells in high volume at luxury car prices. A Ford branded North American-Chinese style minivan sold in North America, China, Russia, and Europe could probably sell in excess of 150,000 units a year. Yes, making the next-gen Galaxy a NA style Minivan would lessen its appeal in Europe, but Ford can make up for that with the S-Max. Remember, when the S-Max and Galaxy debuted in 06 there was no Grand C-Max...so the S-Max can grow a little and so can the Galaxy. Russia and Eastern Europe could use a bigger van/minivan and their roads aren't as narrow as in Western Europe. Minivans make up a much bigger size of the market in Canada than they do in the US and a NA-style minivan can help cement Ford as Canada's Number One car company. Plus, China and North America would easily triple the sales of Galaxy as it stands now.

 

But mostly, I think we should remember that if all these rumors are true, the Ford Galaxy-minivan would likely not sell more than 30-40,000 units a year in its first generation. The minivan market has shrunken over the last decade but has remained stable...but there is real possibility that it will grow in the coming decade as Generation Net starts to really reproduce. Minivans have high ATPs in general and many components can be shared across the Ford line so it won't be a huge investment. Minivans also attract people into the showrooms who ONLY want a minivan. For years now those buyers had to go elsewhere and thus their loyalty were up for grabs. This is a chance for marketshare gains if some previous Ford minivan buyers return or people who have a Fusion and a Caravan/Sienna/Odyssey in the garages now have a Ford minivan to cross-shop with.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ds91776

[Hydro]

Isn't nissan cancelling their mini van soon? I also believe the Kia van sold a total of 3,000 units last year. If your currently not established in the mini van market... good luck. I don't see Ford cracking the current kings of the market ( T&C, Sienna, Odyssey) enough to justify this move. I have no problems with the Flex going away. Just don't add another vehicle and keep concentrating on the current list. With all these new cmax, fiesta, fusion, focus models coming out I'm afraid another model will dilute the name FORD too much and people won't have any recognition of the brand, kinda like GM. Go to anybody on the street and ask all toyotas models vs. GM and I'm positive the majority of toyotas models will be named, unlike GM. I'm all for a lean line-up of bad ass vehicles that the public knows well.

[ds91776]

Hydra, no...Nissan is not cancelling the Quest...they just redesigned it. And Kia is retiring the Sedona this year to make way for a new minivan that will come out in a model year or two. And I completely disagree with you about the GM vs Toyota nameplate thing...and most people ( non-car guys/gals ) think of it as "GM"...they think of Chevy, Buick, GMC, Cadillac, etc.

[jpd80]

And this is hopefully the replacement for the current Ford eight seater minivan

 

Edited September 28, 2012 by jpd80

[LoveTaurus]

Ford Transit Tourneo Custom

I am afraid of that appearance, making me look like I am delivering something!

[Ron W.]

And this is hopefully the replacement for the current Ford eight seater minivan

 

 

Once again I realise that looks are subjective but.......good gawd I hope not.

[papilgee4evaeva]

But htat's the thing while C-Max, S-Max and Galaxy are MPVs, they are a lot different to what the US normally considers to be a "minivan"

and if anything, they appear to be more like half breeds between a station wagons and an SUV-CUV, which makes them possibly more appealing.

 

We've had MPVs sold here before. And in their very next generation, they were redesigned as bona fide minivans. Mazda MPV and Honda Odyssey are the first two that come to mind.

 

Now, I can't speak for everyone's situation, but for us (one kid, planning on three more), anything smaller than a minivan will prove insufficient.

[Anthony]

Once again I realise that looks are subjective but.......good gawd I hope not.

 

I think that would make the Flex look like a sales champion.

[Biker16]

I think that would make the Flex look like a sales champion.

 

as a variant of an successful existing product (transit) it will out sell all D4 CUVs combined Globally.

 

As a matter of fact it would be using D4 Powerpacks, too, and a minimum a Ecoboost I4 2.0 or next gen 2.3.

[Harley Lover]

I think you are forgetting China. Traditional Minivan sales ( much closer to the North American style ) are big business there. The Buick GL8 sells in high volume at luxury car prices. A Ford branded North American-Chinese style minivan sold in North America, China, Russia, and Europe could probably sell in excess of 150,000 units a year. Minivans make up a much bigger size of the market in Canada than they do in the US and a NA-style minivan can help cement Ford as Canada's Number One car company. Plus, China and North America would easily triple the sales of Galaxy as it stands now.

This is a chance for marketshare gains if some previous Ford minivan buyers return or people who have a Fusion and a Caravan/Sienna/Odyssey in the garages now have a Ford minivan to cross-shop with.

 

This is perhaps a key consideration for Ford. GM is doing well in China with the Buick minivan, and don't even offer it here. It would make sense that Ford sees a "One Ford" opportunity for a minivan product that could be sold primarily in North America and China, and perhaps the China component is even more important for Ford as it tries to have major growth in sales in China in the coming years.

[Anthony]

Let me fix that for you

 

as a variant of an successful existing product (transit) it will out sell all D4 CUVs combined Globally (except retail NA).

 

Let's be real. Ford would not release that as a legitimate NA retail Minivan competitor, which is the topic of this entire thread.

[MGolden]

I dont think the Tourneo Custom is ugly. It certainly isnt mainstream mini-van, but that could be good. Check out the link. If this came in AWD, I would buy one today in 9 seat and long wheel base options.

http://www.ford.co.uk/Commercialvehicles/TourneoCustom

[Anthony]

I dont think the Tourneo Custom is ugly. It certainly isnt mainstream mini-van, but that could be good. Check out the link. If this came in AWD, I would buy one today in 9 seat and long wheel base options.

http://www.ford.co.u...s/TourneoCustom

 

I understand it's an awesome vehicle and has great capabilities. But NA tastes are fickle, most people don't want to drive around in what looks like a delivery truck. Even if they used this as a basis for whatever is released, I don't think it would look like this.

 

If the info is true and Ford is looking to release a Conventional (with a capital C) to compete with the market leaders (as reported), you won't see a van looking like this in mainstream America's driveway.

[Deanh]

I dont think the Tourneo Custom is ugly. It certainly isnt mainstream mini-van, but that could be good. Check out the link. If this came in AWD, I would buy one today in 9 seat and long wheel base options.

http://www.ford.co.u...s/TourneoCustom

AWD and Diesel.........fingers crossed. However that said, the Torneo is pretty removed from the "mainstream" Minivan parameters.....

[Edstock]

AWD and Diesel.........fingers crossed. However that said, the Torneo is pretty removed from the "mainstream" Minivan parameters.....

 

Which is where Ford should be. Want a regular minivan? There's lots to choose from. Want something different? Well . . .

[Deanh]

Which is where Ford should be. Want a regular minivan? There's lots to choose from. Want something different? Well . . .

bout time Ford out Quigley'd Quigley.....

[Anthony]

AWD and Diesel.........fingers crossed. However that said, the Torneo is pretty removed from the "mainstream" Minivan parameters.....

 

Supposedly, next gen Caravan is getting AWD back as an option.

 

 

Which is where Ford should be. Want a regular minivan? There's lots to choose from. Want something different? Well . . .

 

Different still needs to be better.

 

The question is: what can Ford do to lure people away from the the current market-leading minivans (or away from the fringe CUV set) into their new minivan?

 

As for a diesel family minivan? I just don't see making a splash in the market place.

[Edstock]

Different still needs to be better.

 

Of course. And of course, the definition of "better" is different with different people who buy minivans.

[NLPRacing]

And this is hopefully the replacement for the current Ford eight seater minivan

 

 

I've got the perfect name for it, the Ford Aerostar II.

[jpd80]

I'm reading a lot of "this won't work in North America", all I can say is that it better because as far as I can tell,

upgrades of Ford Euro people movers have basically been given the nod for North America.

 

This is more about scales of economy and getting North America onto existing global vehicles than considering

the differences (either cultural technical or outright buyer preferences) which appear to be taking secondary.

 

RJ and others here have strong views on the vexatious issues of making global products fit Regional markets

and as an out of towner my self, I intend leaving those points of discussions to Americans to thrash out.

 

Does the apparent intent to use Ford's global People movers in North America help more than hinder?

Is Ford prepared to miss some of the market in return for huge scales of economy?

[Harley Lover]

I'm reading a lot of "this won't work in North America", all I can say is that it better because as far as I can tell,

upgrades of Ford Euro people movers have basically been given the nod for North America.

 

I don't know that your conclusion is verifiable yet. WRT the minivan product, it occurred to me today that Ford's plan might be to use the chassis of the Flex, engineered for sliders, as the basis for a minivan product that would be built with other platform mates in Chicago. I recall reading that sliders were on the table earlier in the Flex's development, but the money was directed to the interior appointments instead. Presuming the chassis could be engineered for sliders, that would seem to be a less costly way to develop a product that could be added to the production mix in Chicago, which in turn might be just the right addition as the Taurus (non PI) migrates to a stretched CD4 chassis (as has been reported in the past). It would also presumably have AWD capability, not to mention Ecoboost capability, so it would already have Ford's signature items available, again at presumably a lower development cost.

 

The other reason this makes sense to me is that it mirrors what Ford did with the Freestyle. That vehicle was the basis for the Explorer, and I would guess saved Ford time and money because the bones were available, and they didn't have to start from scratch. Not to say that the Explorer was not enhanced, stretched, whatever, but its basis remains the Freestyle. Wouldn't it make sense for Ford to "do an Explorer" on the Flex to create the new minivan?

 

JPD, I don't mean to sound argumentative, so please don't read my post that way. But as you mentioned about we Americans, all one has to do is look around and see what is working in the minvan segment here, and it just wouldn't make sense for Ford to ignore the segment leaders. I contrast that opinion with what Ford is doing with the Tourneo Connect, because there really isn't a bonifide market segment, so Ford can invent the niche, just like they did with the Transit Connect.

[akirby]

The article says its CD4 based, not D4 which makes sense if it's going to be shared with Europe which already has CD4.