Consumer Reports pans turbo engines

[ZanatWork]

To be clear, it's generally the minority that buy the sport models...but they also tend to show the potential of a vehicle more than base/luxury models do, so they should be interesting to anyone contemplating a given vehicle. It tends to be "SRT/ST/SS" and similar models that get used in advertising...

...which should tell people something, but in some cases I guess it doesn't.

[FordBuyer]

A few of us caught crap at the time of the Fusion reveal, as no sport model and no V6 were in the works...and because the car had essentially dropped to the bottom in available power among cars in the segment.

 

I find fuel mileage and technology interesting, but not terribly exciting. If I'm going to drop 5 digits worth of money on a vehicle purchase, I certainly want it to excite me. One doesn't have to choose between performance and useability anymore. Plenty of vehicles have good performance, acceptable mileage, and all the useful factors one could ask for.

 

The Fusion is gorgeous, no argument. That, however, makes it kind of tragic that for the performance-leaning buyer, it's among the slowest in its class. If they think it's worth promoting in NASCAR, they must know some customers in the stands or watching TV will be interested in performance.

 

I'm sure we'll get our sport model, but for the time being...small motors are still thrashier, and a shape that lovely deserves a lovely drivetrain. I don't think this is unreasonable.

 

 

It's a shame that Ford doesn't have a motor right now to make the Fusion ST exciting. Dodge today at CAS introduced the new Charger SRT 8 that has manual trans available and 0-60 times under 5 seconds. Now that is exciting for a 4 door sedan. Certainly the Fusion chassis deserves more than 240hp motor pulling 3700 pound curb weight. A twin turbo 2.5L V6 would be nice putting out about 340hp.

[papilgee4evaeva]

It's a shame that Ford doesn't have a motor right now to make the Fusion ST exciting. Dodge today at CAS introduced the new Charger SRT 8 that has manual trans available and 0-60 times under 5 seconds. Now that is exciting for a 4 door sedan. Certainly the Fusion chassis deserves more than 240hp motor pulling 3700 pound curb weight. A twin turbo 2.5L V6 would be nice putting out about 340hp.

Source for the above? I am 1000% certain I would have heard about that.

[FordBuyer]

Source for the above? I am 1000% certain I would have heard about that.

 

Here you go Papi:

 

Click here: Chrysler shows off updated SRT8 Dodge Challenger, Chrysler 300 | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

470 hp and 470 pounds of torque with 0-60 times in high 4 second range. In an earlier article, I saw it stated that Challenger and Charger would be available with manuals. So 300, Charger, and Chalenger get 470hp Hemis. Awesome RWD machines.

[Kris Kolman]

Apples to Oranges... Charger is comparable to the Taurus SHO which isn't a slouch and quite a smile generator.

[papilgee4evaeva]

Here you go Papi:

 

Click here: Chrysler shows off updated SRT8 Dodge Challenger, Chrysler 300 | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

470 hp and 470 pounds of torque with 0-60 times in high 4 second range. In an earlier article, I saw it stated that Challenger and Charger would be available with manuals. So 300, Charger, and Chalenger get 470hp Hemis. Awesome RWD machines.

That's gotta be a mistake about the transmissions. Every other publication I looked up said that only the Challenger would have the manual (as always); if the Charger got it, it most certainly would have made waves due to the fact that everyone's been asking for it since the last-gen SRT8.

http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-dodge-challenger-srt8-core-2013-dodge-charger-srt8-super-bee-debut-2013-chicago-326343.html#axzz2KHWZDG00

 

Of course, it is still possible that everyone else forgot to mention it, but I'm not so sure.

[silvrsvt]

Spiffy. Camries also sell like hotcakes, but there isn't one made that a driving enthusiast would buy.

 

I don't see an issue with it...its not like the Fusion Sport was setting sales on fire when it was an option...IIRC it was less then 10% of total Fusion sales and rare as hens teeth on the road. It could be possible that the vast majority of mid-size car buyers are just looking for a nice car that gets them to point A to point B?

 

If you want something exciting, get a Mustang, SHO or even an Explorer Sport

 

I personally wouldn't mind a Fusion ST or Sport model, but asking for the EB 3.5L EB engine isn't going to happen and the other engines that would produce over 300HP aren't going to be on the market for another 2 years or so.

[fordmantpw]

Spiffy. Camries also sell like hotcakes, but there isn't one made that a driving enthusiast would buy.

 

So, what's more important? Make a car an enthusiast will buy and sell an additional 5k copies, or making a car that (nearly) everyone will love and sell an additional 50k copies?

[silvrsvt]

I really want to see what the 3.5L would do in a Fusion in mileage .

 

so estimate 20 city/30 hwy for a 3.5L V6 in the Fusion -- I really think Ford should just build it to shut people up -- might not sell a lot but there are people that MUST have a v6 and now you've given them a 30K option, I also think they would sell 25-30K a year of them and they would be new customers.

 

 

Not quite, the 3.7L in the MKZ FWD gets 19/22/28

 

Using the Edge FWD as a baseline with the 3.5L vs 3.7L..the 3.5 only improves on the 3.7 by one MPG in the highway rating with them both getting 22 MPG combined

 

The other issue is that most (I thought I saw/read someplace) midsized cars come with I4 engines with them, since yet again, most people driving them are looking for an appliance like car that runs good and gets good MPG's

[akirby]

So, what's more important? Make a car an enthusiast will buy and sell an additional 5k copies, or making a car that (nearly) everyone will love and sell an additional 50k copies?

 

This ^^^^^^^^

[ZanatWork]

As I pointed out in another post, everyone seems to advertise the ST/SS/SRT version of even vanilla cars...so I'd say there's some importance, there.

It's not like Ford made very popular performance cars off of midsize origins like Fairlanes, Torinos, Taurus (SHO) and the Fusion Sport or anything.

Gosh, it's like Ford has treated this with some importance for, oh, over 4 decades now! What were they thinking?

 

So, what's more important? Make a car an enthusiast will buy and sell an additional 5k copies, or making a car that (nearly) everyone will love and sell an additional 50k copies?

[silvrsvt]

Gosh, it's like Ford has treated this with some importance for, oh, over 4 decades now! What were they thinking?

Say what? The SHO went away in 1999 and only sold 3K units or so before coming back 10 years later.

 

The Fusion Sport wasn't even really a performance model...it didn't even have a re-calibrated suspension etc

[ZanatWork]

Do you deny, even for a second, that cars like the original SHO, the Fairlane GT/GTA, the Torino GT, and others brought more visibility to their models?

That tends to sell cars, too, and draws the eye faster than "NOW WITH MORE ANNOYING GRAPHICAL INTERFACE!". Even Toyota, queen of mediocre driving experiences, is working to infuse better chassis dynamics and sporting appeal into their lineup.

I, for the life of me, cannot understand anyone jumping up and down shouting "GO, MILQUETOAST MOTORS!".

[jpd80]

Buyer emphasis these days - particularly with mid sized vehicles clearly prioritize fuel economy over performance.

Look at the majority of mid sized vehicles and there's a rapid move away from larger capacity V6s

and because CAFE limits are getting tougher, part time power seems to be the answer.

[twmalonehunter]

I gotta side with Z on this one. I think it is a mistake if Ford doesnt offer a performance version of the Fusion. Especially if Ford invested one single resource torwards that monstrosity TrackST or whatever the hell it is.

 

Like I said earlier, my next vehicle will be something performance oriented, and frankly at this time nothing Ford makes really does it for me. I am hoping I fall in love with new Mustang, we will see. I want something more substantial and grown up than the Focus ST but less bloated than the SHO. Fusion ST could be perfect with the right powertrain.

 

Ford has done good job with fuel economy marketing and increasing transaction prices, I just feel they have abandoned true enthusiasts, to some extent. By design I'm sure.

[FordBuyer]

Do you deny, even for a second, that cars like the original SHO, the Fairlane GT/GTA, the Torino GT, and others brought more visibility to their models?

 

That tends to sell cars, too, and draws the eye faster than "NOW WITH MORE ANNOYING GRAPHICAL INTERFACE!". Even Toyota, queen of mediocre driving experiences, is working to infuse better chassis dynamics and sporting appeal into their lineup.

 

I, for the life of me, cannot understand anyone jumping up and down shouting "GO, MILQUETOAST MOTORS!".

 

To be fair Zana, SVT did a nice job on the Focus ST, and the Fiesat ST that is coming, so I see no reason why SVT will not start on Fusion soon or maybe has already. Problem of course is finding suitable engine that doesn't exist right now. Ford only has so many engineers and projects it can accomplish at once. The 2013 Fusion has only recently started showing up on public streets recently. So give Ford some time to come up with something. Add in the Taurus SHO and Explorer and Edge Sport also. It's not like Ford has been ignoring the enthusiast crowd as of late. There is a pattern here....almost every model line gets a Sport or ST version.

[ZanatWork]

I never said they were ignoring things, I said that I'd like more performance in the Fusion and that I don't like it being essentially in last regarding available power. I WANT a Fusion model that goes as fast as the car looks. Knowing that Accords, Sonatas, Camries, etc all have something akin to a sport model and the best looking (and the one built by my preferred brand) does not...seems like an oversight to me. I'm glad so many fans of base models and what-not are buying them, but I don't pretend that the powertrains interest me at this time. Apparently, wanting the Fusion to kick ass at all levels is unreasonable.

To be fair Zana, SVT did a nice job on the Focus ST, and the Fiesat ST that is coming, so I see no reason why SVT will not start on Fusion soon or maybe has already. Problem of course is finding suitable engine that doesn't exist right now. Ford only has so many engineers and projects it can accomplish at once. The 2013 Fusion has only recently started showing up on public streets recently. So give Ford some time to come up with something. Add in the Taurus SHO and Explorer and Edge Sport also. It's not like Ford has been ignoring the enthusiast crowd as of late. There is a pattern here....almost every model line gets a Sport or ST version.

[fordmantpw]

Do you deny, even for a second, that cars like the original SHO, the Fairlane GT/GTA, the Torino GT, and others brought more visibility to their models?

 

That tends to sell cars, too, and draws the eye faster than "NOW WITH MORE ANNOYING GRAPHICAL INTERFACE!". Even Toyota, queen of mediocre driving experiences, is working to infuse better chassis dynamics and sporting appeal into their lineup.

 

I, for the life of me, cannot understand anyone jumping up and down shouting "GO, MILQUETOAST MOTORS!".

 

Sure, the performance models have brought visibility. But so has fuel economy leadership. Which brings in more buyers? I don't have the numbers, but given the state of the economy, I would venture to guess it's fuel economy.

 

With the success of the Fusion, I would say Ford has done the right thing. A performance model can always be added later, but you need to take care of the bread and butter, the things most consumers are concerned about, first.

[FordBuyer]

I never said they were ignoring things, I said that I'd like more performance in the Fusion and that I don't like it being essentially in last regarding available power. I WANT a Fusion model that goes as fast as the car looks. Knowing that Accords, Sonatas, Camries, etc all have something akin to a sport model and the best looking (and the one built by my preferred brand) does not...seems like an oversight to me. I'm glad so many fans of base models and what-not are buying them, but I don't pretend that the powertrains interest me at this time. Apparently, wanting the Fusion to kick ass at all levels is unreasonable.

 

Again, the Focus ST, Fiesta ST, Explorer and Edge Sport, for example, did not come out with intro of regular models. It took Ford 18-24 months after initial debut to get the enhusiast models to dealerships. And most had an engine readily available that was suitable unlike Fusion. So give it time. If Ford shows no Fusion ST within next year at some auto show, then I'm with you, that would be disappointing for a Fusion that looks like that and best they can do is 240hp and 0-60 times barely under 7 seconds. And as you stated, Ford has a NASCAR Fusion showing up this month at Daytona. I would imagine Fusion ST will get a version of I4 EB engines going into 2015 Mustang. Too bad they aren't here yesterday. It is what it is.

[silvrsvt]

If Ford shows no Fusion ST within next year at some auto show, then I'm with you, that would be disappointing for a Fusion that looks like that and best they can do is 240hp and 0-60 times barely under 7 seconds.

 

The last gen Fusion Sport only did 7 second 0-60 times....

 

The issue is that there really isn't a hi-po engine to put into the Fusion Sport and do it right. You could put the 3.7L into it like the MKZ, but would it make it that much faster? I'd rather see them do it right then sorta half ass it like they did with the Sport.

 

Another interesting point to bring up, is there even going to be a Fusion Sport or ST? The reason I say this that the next gen Taurus will be alot closer to the the Fusion in size and will be getting a much needed diet I hope. The Current Fusion with AWD weighs about 3600lbs vs 4300 vs the current Taurus SHO. I can see them getting the weight down to 3800-4000 range with a CD4+3 platform. Then consider the starting price of the Taurus SHO would be much higher then a ST Fusion and is already a established name, I can see that Ford really wouldn't pursue an all out performance model with the Fusion....I guess we'll see what happens down the road.

[jpd80]

The increased sales of Fusion hybrid shows the direction the market is heading, I'd say Ford chose that path over a "Fusion SHO".

[Deanh]

The increased sales of Fusion hybrid shows the direction the market is heading, I'd say Ford chose that path over a "Fusion SHO".

My thoughts exactly....although theres no doubt in my mind there is a Sports varient in the near future, maybe a year or so....figure about 350 or so horsepower.....

[V8-X]

Sure, the performance models have brought visibility. But so has fuel economy leadership. Which brings in more buyers? I don't have the numbers, but given the state of the economy, I would venture to guess it's fuel economy.

 

I'd say cost is the leading factor, with style a close 2nd, not fuel economy or performance first.

 

The mpg and performance difference between many of these models is so miniscule that most wouldn't notice the difference.

 

If there is a performance model, that only gets slightly worse mpgs, now that would show well. Problem again, is this performance model would boost the cost up, impacting the #1 sells factor.

Edited February 8, 2013 by V8-X

[Deanh]

I'd say cost is the leading factor, with style a close 2nd, not fuel economy or performance first.

 

The mpg and performance difference between many of these models is so miniscule that most wouldn't notice the difference.

 

If there is a performance model, that only gets slightly worse mpgs, now that would show well. Problem again, is this performance model would boost the cost up, impacting the #1 sells factor.

Based on what Ive witnessed regarding Fusion sales I would juggle that order to 1) style, 2) mileage, 3) cost....performance hasnt come up, but we have been selling a bunch that can go and purchase, and did cross-shop Hyundais and Kias....the Fusion styling won out a majority of times...the sales that were lost were those focused on nothing more than $

[fordmantpw]

I'd say cost is the leading factor, with style a close 2nd, not fuel economy or performance first.

 

The mpg and performance difference between many of these models is so miniscule that most wouldn't notice the difference.

 

If there is a performance model, that only gets slightly worse mpgs, now that would show well. Problem again, is this performance model would boost the cost up, impacting the #1 sells factor.

 

My point was more that higher fuel economy brings in more buyers than higher performance would (in a Fusion...not the same for Mustang).