Some Ford Dealers miss Small Pickup

[Kris Kolman]

Sure its not perfect, but it is not unreasonable to apply a scale up factor to pre-tax retail prices for similar models... The differences between the markets should scale; in this case 42% increase from UK to US market. It is the closest you can get without knowing the internals.

 

But its not unreasonable for TC and Ranger have similar pricing/profit structure as both utility/commercial vehicles in UK. And there are some conservatism in using these two in the extrapolation... In that TC is built in Spain/Turkey, while Ranger is built in South Africa/Argentina and as such Ranger UK price would have additional shipping/transit costs. And of course the TC in the US has additional costs in that it has to be torn apart in NJ to get around the Chicken Tax.

 

But whatever... Some of you think it is unreasonable for me to think any small pickup worth its metal needs to be capable of pulling a small 18' boat at altitude.

[cheri/ck]

I surely agree that a small truck should be a capable truck on its own scale. Said it too many times, but we have driven Rangers in plenty of towing, hauling situations and they never had a problem doing hard work. Held up quite well over the long term. And this was also at high altitude - we live at 7,200 feet.

 

There are plenty that want a smaller truck as a second vehicle that is both a daily driver and a weekend warrior. With much easier driveability, off-road ability in tight places, easier parking in town and better overall gas mileage than the way too big full-size trucks of late.

 

There are places for capable large trucks and capable small trucks. Will be very interesting to see how Chevy's new smaller truck does. I bet it will be a success, maybe a big one due to pent-up demand. Thanks mostly to Ford. Makes me shudder, but looking forward to visiting the Chevy store next year for the first time ever to at least take a test drive.

 

Seems like a waste of time and development to bring to market a car with a bed formed onto it. Just not the point here.

[silvrsvt]

And of course the TC in the US has additional costs in that it has to be torn apart in NJ to get around the Chicken Tax.

 

Actually its done in Baltimore...not New Jersey and from what I understand, the cost of the the scrap helps offset the costs of doing the ripping out of windows etc...

 

 

There are plenty that want a smaller truck as a second vehicle that is both a daily driver and a weekend warrior. With much easier driveability, off-road ability in tight places, easier parking in town and better overall gas mileage than the way too big full-size trucks of late.

 

There are places for capable large trucks and capable small trucks. Will be very interesting to see how Chevy's new smaller truck does. I bet it will be a success, maybe a big one due to pent-up demand. Thanks mostly to Ford. Makes me shudder, but looking forward to visiting the Chevy store next year for the first time ever to at least take a test drive.

 

Is it really? I was looking at Tacoma sales over the past 10 years or so, and sales where as low as 100K units a year to a high of 170K or so...given the regard that truck has plus no supposed bias against it (e.g. Ford wants to protect F-150) sales, why hasn't there been more buyers? The Nissan Frontier sold less then 29K units last year. The Colorado went from a high of 144K sales in 2004 to taking a nearly 60K hit in 2007 and only sold 40K units this past year... Obviously the Compact/Medium size pick up truck in the USA is going the way of the Dodo bird...and people are moving to other products (like CUVs) or into "real" trucks

[cheri/ck]

Like I say, should be interesting. Chevy is bringing to market in the U.S. their overseas competitor to Ford's T-6 Ranger - the one that Ford could not possibly consider offering here due to size, cost, etc. Mostly too much competition to the bloated, big profit F-150.

 

Seems like Ford will be playing a lot of catch-up to the new Colorado if they have to scramble to compete. Playing up to the competition rarely works and might permanently lose customers. Numbers are numbers and the reason bean counters ruin car companies. We'll see.

 

Rumor is that Chevy is leading the way now toward some new mid-size trucks. Tacoma and Frontier will also finally update about the same time frame. The smaller trucks suffered in sales mostly to lack of development. Looks like Ford will be left out of this cycle.

 

Ford has lead the truck market for many years. And most manufacturers follow suit. Chevy is taking a different approach here and the lead back toward mid-size, more usable everyday trucks. They are putting some money into the effort and imagine they see an opportunity.

 

Like I say - looking forward to their new smaller truck and will be interesting to see how it plays out. It's a neglected market that has a good customer base if properly addressed.

 

Never even drove a Chevy before, but will have to take a look with no Ford option likely to show up anytime soon.

[Kris Kolman]

To tell the truth the T6 Ranger that most appeals to me probably will never come to pass... Ford bringing the following to NA is as likely as me getting a job with Boeing Australia. Lets see... Call up my buddy in Seattle to get me on the Wedgetail program and then finagle a relocation to Sydney... That is probably more thought out and more likely than Ford bringing the Ranger Wildtrak.

 

[silvrsvt]

Like I say, should be interesting. Chevy is bringing to market in the U.S. their overseas competitor to Ford's T-6 Ranger - the one that Ford could not possibly consider offering here due to size, cost, etc. Mostly too much competition to the bloated, big profit F-150.

 

Seems like Ford will be playing a lot of catch-up to the new Colorado if they have to scramble to compete. Playing up to the competition rarely works and might permanently lose customers. Numbers are numbers and the reason bean counters ruin car companies. We'll see.

 

Rumor is that Chevy is leading the way now toward some new mid-size trucks. Tacoma and Frontier will also finally update about the same time frame. The smaller trucks suffered in sales mostly to lack of development. Looks like Ford will be left out of this cycle.

 

Ford has lead the truck market for many years. And most manufacturers follow suit. Chevy is taking a different approach here and the lead back toward mid-size, more usable everyday trucks. They are putting some money into the effort and imagine they see an opportunity.

 

Like I say - looking forward to their new smaller truck and will be interesting to see how it plays out. It's a neglected market that has a good customer base if properly addressed.

 

Never even drove a Chevy before, but will have to take a look with no Ford option likely to show up anytime soon.

 

 

Since when is GM a shining example of how things are supposed to be done? If anything, they are poster child of what NOT to do...

 

Their product development team consists of starving Chevy because of Buick and lesser extent Cadillac, They constantly throw product from overseas onto the wall to see if it sticks and when it doesn't, they change the name and sell the same crappy car as a police cruiser or as some over priced sedan that starts at 30k as a jobs program for Australia, they do a half ass job on their midsized car so its barely competitive with the rest of the market, their recently redone Fullsize pickup barely meets the bar established by the 2004 F-150 (I'll go out on a limb and say that Dodge/RAM is a far better product then the current GM fullsized trucks), They had the fullsized CUV market wrapped up till the Explorer came along and became the best selling nameplate in the fullsized CUV market and the refresh done to them hasn't helped that situation. The Cruise and Sonic are subprime leaders in sales....the list goes on and on...

 

It makes zero sense to purse a mid-sized pickup that gets the same MPG as F-150 can get with a 3.7...You need to come out with something that gets significantly better MPG that will make buyers buy it. For all the bitching and moaning about the F-150 being too big and too overpriced, it sure doesn't seem like its hurt its sales numbers since the 2004 redesign, given what has happened with the Economy overall. I trust Ford more then most people on here who think their needs and wants trump what the market wants. I think an Escape sized/based Pickup that can handle plywood/drywall runs to Home Depot and gets almost 30 MPG is the sweet spot that someone needs to address. Don't let mission creep make it overly capable etc...it needs laser focus to get to this point.

[jpd80]

What's more important to Ford is which products give the best ROI and elimination of internal competition

Edited March 12, 2013 by jpd80

[ScapeTom]

The Wall Street Journal had an article today about how GM and Chrysler were planning to come out with a "small" truck. The article included a chart that compared the F-150 with the Toyota Tacoma. While the Tacoma got 4 more mpg in the city, it only netted 2 more mpg over the F-150 on the highway. It was almost $6000 cheaper than the Ford though.

 

Frankly, I don't think that 25 mpg is thrifty enough to draw people from the full sized truck. Something around 30 HWY/25 CITY would be nice.

[cheri/ck]

Once again, I fail to understand the math. A smaller truck weighing considerably less with the 3.7 V-6 could surely do quite well on the EPA city/highway cycle. And perform well as a light duty truck. Assuming the proper development was involved.

 

The 3.7 V-6 in the F-150 suffers from the weight it has to carry plus wind resistance of the wide/tall design. If you are on flat land at low altitude and not trying to tow anything or haul much - it is OK. Probably also OK for those that only use them in city cycle. Of course, the 3.7 V-6 is not even offered in a 4WD truck the last time I looked. It is a compromise vehicle.

 

The Colorado is coming with their 3.5 V-6 as top line engine (didn't double-check that displacement number) which appears to be a decent option. Will be a while as we learn more about the vehicle and the small diesels they are bringing in may also be an option. But looks like it will be a nice mid-size truck offering. Various cabs and 4WD across the line.

 

Unfortunately for some of us that want to buy American, it may very well be the only choice in a reasonably sized, capable pick-up that delivers decent everyday gas mileage and hopefully good highway mileage. Haven't bought a foreign vehicle since the early 80's and never bought a Chevy. But, Ford is forcing the hand here.

[FordBuyer]

Once again, I fail to understand the math. A smaller truck weighing considerably less with the 3.7 V-6 could surely do quite well on the EPA city/highway cycle. And perform well as a light duty truck. Assuming the proper development was involved.

 

The 3.7 V-6 in the F-150 suffers from the weight it has to carry plus wind resistance of the wide/tall design. If you are on flat land at low altitude and not trying to tow anything or haul much - it is OK. Probably also OK for those that only use them in city cycle. Of course, the 3.7 V-6 is not even offered in a 4WD truck the last time I looked. It is a compromise vehicle.

 

The Colorado is coming with their 3.5 V-6 as top line engine (didn't double-check that displacement number) which appears to be a decent option. Will be a while as we learn more about the vehicle and the small diesels they are bringing in may also be an option. But looks like it will be a nice mid-size truck offering. Various cabs and 4WD across the line.

 

Unfortunately for some of us that want to buy American, it may very well be the only choice in a reasonably sized, capable pick-up that delivers decent everyday gas mileage and hopefully good highway mileage. Haven't bought a foreign vehicle since the early 80's and never bought a Chevy. But, Ford is forcing the hand here.

 

Well, if you get the hint, Ford is basically telling you to buy a mid sized pickup from another auto company. They are not going to make one here, period. Now if you want to wait 2-4 years for a compact pickup probably based upon Focus/TC platform for light duty hauling, then it sounds like Ford may be your company. Ford would be smart to do compact pickup since the Tacoma, Frontier, and new Colorado are all mid sized and 4/5th the size of full size. Nothing wrong with buying from competition....choice is good.

[Bob Rosadini]

Also saw the WSJ article. I guess they didn't bother to check in with Ford for Ford's position as only Ford reference in article was.."Ford Motor Co dropped its Ranger pickup in 2011." Same old story...."growing numbers want better economy",...."return..represents risk as smaller trucks..carry smaller profit..."..."market is very small".

 

However headline.."Detroit Rethinks Small Trucks".. Monkey see-Monkey do!

 

In any case-yeah I know I'm a minority-no trucklet please. A real small truck, BOF, not another Ridgeline.

[cheri/ck]

Yeah, you are right and already the conclusion here. Just can't seem to keep complaining that Ford doesn't give us a choice - now or at least pretty soon. Hard to understand why the only choice is a big almost F-250 and maybe someday a unibody with a bed on it that probably can't tow much.

 

The capable smaller truck has a market and like I say - we'll see. Never been a big GM fan but I do applaud this current Colorado effort - granted mostly in the face of Ford failing to do something similar in the U.S.

 

Like I said - we'll see. Got to do something soon around here. Don't like much of anything with the current F-150 and there's nothing else coming up in a more reasonable, usable size. Or maybe the Atlas concept is deceiving.

 

Should be interesting, especially with Tacoma and Frontier following behind GM with updates - finally. They mostly just gave up on Ford as a leader in this segment and GM is assuming the role.

[FordBuyer]

Also saw the WSJ article. I guess they didn't bother to check in with Ford for Ford's position as only Ford reference in article was.."Ford Motor Co dropped its Ranger pickup in 2011." Same old story...."growing numbers want better economy",...."return..represents risk as smaller trucks..carry smaller profit..."..."market is very small".

 

However headline.."Detroit Rethinks Small Trucks".. Monkey see-Monkey do!

 

In any case-yeah I know I'm a minority-no trucklet please. A real small truck, BOF, not another Ridgeline.

 

If Ford was going to do a BOF RWD compact pickup, they would have redesigned the Ranger and put in EB motor with 6 speed auto. That is history. So looks like the way they are talking, TC pickup is it if they keep paying attention to market and where it's going. With all the aluminum planned for next F-150, the sticker price has only one way to go, and it won't be down. So there is pretty big opening for $22,000 compact pickup that gets close to 30mpg highway.

[silvrsvt]

In any case-yeah I know I'm a minority-no trucklet please. A real small truck, BOF, not another Ridgeline.

 

I just can't wrap my head around this....there really a market for a truck that's 7/8-3/4 (depending on model) of the size of a F-150, has roughly 1/2 capabilities of what a base model F-150 can do and gets nearly identical gas mileage to an V6 F-150? Thats what your dealing with....I know if I was in the market for a truck, I'd rather overbuy with a F-150 then get a Ranger like vehicle that costs nearly the same.

 

That's the real issue here when it comes the market place...there is too much overlap between the two to make it worthwhile...and thus why a Compact unibody Pickup make more sense, since it would be much smaller with a 105in wheelbase and a overall length of 178in or so. And it would easily get into the high 20's with highway mileage, which is about 5 mpg more then what a V6 F-150 can do. Make it have a bed that can fit plywood or drywall in it and it will do good with consumers since the F-150 is overkill for the vast majority of consumers.

[cheri/ck]

Kind of makes you wonder what a T-6 Ranger could do with the 3.7 V-6. That is a good, strong engine which is obvious from the limited application in the F-150.

 

Suspect in the T-6 it could deliver upper 20's which would be a milestone for a capable, BOF truck.

 

Once again, just dreaming here. Won't happen though with Ford before I absolutely have to buy something newer. Like many, watching the used market very carefully. Just nothing out there new that I am willing to spend the money on.

 

I do think it is all tilting toward change. Not only the Colorado ramping up but big changes eventually across the board -Nissan's Titan for one. If they keep that truck about the same size and go to their 6-speed tranny, it's an option for some of us looking for a smaller footprint with decent mileage.

 

Like I say - getting interesting.

[lfeg]

The Wall Street Journal had an article today about how GM and Chrysler were planning to come out with a "small" truck. The article included a chart that compared the F-150 with the Toyota Tacoma. While the Tacoma got 4 more mpg in the city, it only netted 2 more mpg over the F-150 on the highway. It was almost $6000 cheaper than the Ford though.

 

Frankly, I don't think that 25 mpg is thrifty enough to draw people from the full sized truck. Something around 30 HWY/25 CITY would be nice.

The numbers for the Tacoma vs F150 on highway illustrate the impact of aerodynamic drag. Both are relativly large boxes (frontal areas are not that far apart) with large outside mirrors. That is one reason why any small truck that will get excellent fuel economy on the highway must be SMALL.

[blksn8k2]

It amazes me how people who don't own a truck now, probably never owned a truck in lives and probably never will seem to think they know what truck buyers want and need. Like it or not this tends to make some of the conversation around here seem pretty irrelevant. Just sayin'...

[probowler]

Ford could make so many people happy and kill 2 birds with one stone if they made a good compact/midsize pickup with a 2-door Bronco Variant. It could be a perfect jeep killer... we know ford can do it (:cough: Raptor) They just need the will.

[lfeg]

It amazes me how people who don't own a truck now, probably never owned a truck in lives and probably never will seem to think they know what truck buyers want and need. Like it or not this tends to make some of the conversation around here seem pretty irrelevant. Just sayin'...

 

To me, my pickup is a tool to get things done. There are those like me, and theye are those who use them as a recreation vehicle, a work vehicle, a family vehicle, and as a statement. Probably one of the most versitile vehicles out there. And for the multitudes of uses a multitude of offerings are out there. I do not think the question is should Ford compete in the midsize pickup market, but should Ford go into the whitespace again as they did with the Transit Connect.

 

I see the whitespace being a small highly fuel efficient pickup with reasonable capabilities for its size. Not a performance vehicle, not one that can be everything for everybody with 30 different configurations, but something that targets an unfullfilled need as the TC did and does. And economically, it cannot be North Anerica only.

[silvrsvt]

It amazes me how people who don't own a truck now, probably never owned a truck in lives and probably never will seem to think they know what truck buyers want and need. Like it or not this tends to make some of the conversation around here seem pretty irrelevant. Just sayin'...

 

 

Well there is always a vocal minority that makes you think that Ford and everyone else is wrong because of their needs and wants...which fly in opposition of what the market place is going.

[ScapeTom]

Well there is always a vocal minority that makes you think that Ford and everyone else is wrong because of their needs and wants...which fly in opposition of what the market place is going.

 

Well, to be fair, it's hard for people to go where the products don't exist. Whether there's a market for is small, fuel-efficient pickup truck or not is debatable. I think it would sell, some don't. A mid-sized truck isn't going to cut it - too close to the full sized truck to offer much of anything.

 

All I remember is that my first Ranger, a 1983 2WD with the 2.3L and a 4-speed (they didn't even have a 5 speed yet) would net me 28-30 mpg on the highway. Granted, the speed limit was still 55, meaning that I tended to drive around 60-65, but I don't see any reason why that vehicle couldn't exist today.

[akirby]

I've owned 2 Rangers so I feel I am definitely qualified.

 

 

Well, to be fair, it's hard for people to go where the products don't exist.

 

If you're talking about a smaller, lighter, cheaper truck with great fuel economy then I agree - we don't have any of those for comparison.

 

But if you're talking about the current mid-sizers then there are plenty of decent entries out there starting with Tacoma. Anyone blaming the decline in mid-sized sales on poor products has blinders on.

 

 

 

There are only 2 options here for Ford:

 

Bring T6 Ranger to the U.S. - it would require a significant investment to federalize for U.S. consumption and/or production. It would not be significantly less expensive or more fuel efficient than the new F150. Some significant portion of all sales would come at the expense of F150 sales (no net sales gain). There is no indication that this market will grow in the future.

 

Bring something new - smaller, lighter, cheaper and way more fuel efficient. But it has to be cheaper. More like the old Courier than the new Ranger. This is whitespace in the market and this would take sales from small SUVs and small cars for some people - especially first time home buyers. That's when and why I bought my first Ranger. And it was cheap - $7995 for a 1990 Ranger regular cab 2WD with chrome wheels, sliding rear window, am/fm cassette, A/C and a chrome bumper.

[jmacd27]

I know two people with Rangers that they need to replace. Both of them want another Ranger but are forced to look elsewhere. The size is perfect for city use to deliver parts. I hope Ford finds a way to get something to market.

[silvrsvt]

I know two people with Rangers that they need to replace. Both of them want another Ranger but are forced to look elsewhere. The size is perfect for city use to deliver parts. I hope Ford finds a way to get something to market.

 

i'd think a transit connect would be fine for a parts truck... plenty of room in back of it.

[Deanh]

i'd think a transit connect would be fine for a parts truck... plenty of room in back of it.

yup...now try and put a refrigerator in it..................