Lincoln launching livery version of MKS

[twintornados]

Lincoln is down to 5 vehicle lineup, and THREE are limos or becoming limos. Not my idea of a desirable luxury car maker. Just shows you how weak the Lincoln lineup is right now that they have to get into livery market to keep the MKT, MKS, and Navigator going somehow.

Dude, Cadillac is also "down" to five vehicles...ATS, XTS, CTS, SRX, and Escalade with XTS, and Escalade being marketed through their fleet / livery division, and ATS being pitched for daily rental fleets. What is your point?

 

Both marquees are intended as low volume divisions that generate good profit and a sort of halo to their respective parent companies....Cadillac is further along than Lincoln due to Lincoln being basically ignored by past CEO's such as Jaques Nasser who could not bring himself to be seen in "just a Lincoln" which is why he instead went on a buying spree to snap up Aston Martin, Land Rover, Volvo, and Jaguar to create a higher "image" for Ford....when all along, all he had to do was invest in Lincoln back then and bring it to world class standards so that it can finally be considered something other than just a "tarted up Ford"....when Lincoln enters the Chinese market, watch that company go like gang-busters...

 

Add on: The late great Lincoln LS was a perfect "case in point" of a damn fine chassis that was nothing like anything else in the Ford lineup...it was left to wither and die on the vine and was summarily dumped....too bad, they are STILL awesome cars.

Edited March 8, 2013 by twintornados

[lfeg]

Of course! If >I< don't like something, it's obviously wrong.

Oh get off it. I said my opinion. I did not say they must do it

[theoldwizard]

One of the problems that I see with the MKT, especially as a livery vehicle, is it's look.

100% agree !

 

The MKT is F-U-G-L-Y !!

[silvrsvt]

Add on: The late great Lincoln LS was a perfect "case in point" of a damn fine chassis that was nothing like anything else in the Ford lineup...it was left to wither and die on the vine and was summarily dumped....too bad, they are STILL awesome cars.

 

The LS had no business case either since it was based on a Jaguar platform that cost too much to be profitable as a Lincoln.

 

I get this feeling that the LS wasn't nearly as a good of a car as some people think it was because they are looking through rosed colored glasses of it being the last (to date) modern RWD Lincoln.

[RichardJensen]

But before that happens, Ford has to 1) admit that Flex / MKT is a mistake and 2) see value in changing to something else

 

As much as I would like to see Explorer EL and a LWB navigator, sense tells me that OakVille will be switching to CD4 based products

which also gives Ford the opportunity to review the style of Edge / MKX as well as Flex / MKT vehicles produced there.

It may well be that solutions are already in hand and better execution of said products will yield better results...

 

I remain convinced that the CUVs will migrate to a heavily modified CD4, or perhaps a derivative of CD3s. There is more than enough volume in the CUV sector globally to justify a unique platform for it.

[akirby]

Oh get off it. I said my opinion. I did not say they must do it

 

You said they must do it if they want to increase sales which implies that everyone else shares your opinion.

[FordFanForEver]

If the MKT really stands for Town Car, then that pisses me off. I've seen an MKT limo and I thought it was ugly... But I'm biased because I think the MKT is an ugly car. The MKS would look good as a limo but the model is going to be replaced in 1.5-2 years and I don't think that would make sense from a buisness perspective to purchase it when you know a replacement is on the way, unless you are trying to save money.

Edited March 8, 2013 by FordFanForEver

[papilgee4evaeva]

If the MKT really stands for Town Car, then that pisses me off. I've seen an MKT limo and I thought it was ugly... But I'm biased because I think the MKT is an ugly car. The MKS would look good as a limo but the model is going to be replaced in 1.5-2 years and I don't think that would make sense from a buisness perspective to purchase it when you know a replacement is on the way, unless you are trying to save money.

It doesn't stand for Town Car, don't worry.

[ZanatWork]

The LS was more competitive with the luxury-level midsize cars than Lincoln has been since. Brutal fact.

The LS got one MCE, then was axed despite actually getting into the very same game Lincoln is outside of right now.

Was it magnificent/perfect? No...but it could actually compete with the E-Class, the 5 series...the heart of the luxury market. No "MK" can even scratch that market, arguably the most important luxury segment.

Maybe it gets romanticized because Lincoln really had one product that shared DNA with another luxury car, not mainstream family cars/trucks.

The LS had no business case either since it was based on a Jaguar platform that cost too much to be profitable as a Lincoln.

 

I get this feeling that the LS wasn't nearly as a good of a car as some people think it was because they are looking through rosed colored glasses of it being the last (to date) modern RWD Lincoln.

[RichardJensen]

It's romanticized for the same reason there are Ren-fests.

[2b2]

The LS was more competitive with the luxury-level midsize cars than Lincoln has been since. Brutal fact.

 

The LS got one MCE, then was axed despite actually getting into the very same game Lincoln is outside of right now.

 

Was it magnificent/perfect? No...but it could actually compete with the E-Class, the 5 series...the heart of the luxury market. No "MK" can even scratch that market, arguably the most important luxury segment.

 

Maybe it gets romanticized because Lincoln really had one product that shared DNA with another luxury car, not mainstream family cars/trucks.

 

[jpd80]

I remain convinced that the CUVs will migrate to a heavily modified CD4, or perhaps a derivative of CD3s. There is more than enough volume in the CUV sector globally to justify a unique platform for it.

What's the bet that Explorer migrates too and with that the whole of D3 will be gone by 2015....

Edited March 9, 2013 by jpd80

[akirby]

I drove a V8 LS sport for 6 years. The suspension was great. The engine was super smooth but underpowered (252 hp) by comparison even back then. The seats were great. The rest of the interior was not quite up to luxury standards. I still liked it a lot. But as a luxury vehicle it was not quite up to Lexus or MB standards.

 

It was too expensive and sales forecasts were severely inflated. The expensive platform and engine made it impossible to justify and that was why it was killed. It never had a chance. Had it been able to use the cheaper more powerful 4.6L that might have made a difference.

[papilgee4evaeva]

I just read somewhere that the 4.6 was too big for the LS engine bay.

 

They probably could have supercharged the V8 engine a la the S-Type R, but then you get into that tricky business about encroaching on Jaguar's territory...

[NLPRacing]

I just read somewhere that the 4.6 was too big for the LS engine bay.

 

They probably could have supercharged the V8 engine a la the S-Type R, but then you get into that tricky business about encroaching on Jaguar's territory...

It'll fit. http://www.flickriver.com/photos/23768530@N05/4468593836/

[akirby]

Of course it fit if you installed it from the top. But on the assembly line it has to be installed from the bottom and there wasn't enough suspension clearance.

 

Ford entered a supercharged Roush 4.6L powered LS in the 2004 One Lap of America race.

 

[chevys]

Alright.

 

I'm reinstating FB's five post limit.

 

You've been warned.

 

Let him have his say. He is not breaking any rules here that I am aware of and he is not notorious for one liners like you are. Sometimes the truth is bitter and I certainly dont always agree with him but lets face it Lincoln has issues to put it mildly. I would hate to see this place get more like GMI. BON is not exactly the busiest forum on the net either. Sorry to get off topic. Carry on.

Edited March 9, 2013 by chevys

[jpd80]

You missed the most important statement !

 

I ave been crying for this for a long time now !

 

They used to slice the old Panther Towne Cars in half to make "stretch" limos, so this is nothing new. This will be a "game change" in the current livery market and it can not happen soon enough !

Okay, now I see what you're saying, this is not unlike what Cadillac is doing with livery specials, semi finished ready for extending..

Perhaps it's better to let the specialists do the extending rather than spending the money to do a Flex wheelbase on MKS

only to find the liveries want something different...OK gotcha.

 

I have a feeling that future CD4 variants of MKS could will have a slightly longer wheelbase than D3 ,

maybe there's an opportunity to reset the wheelbase then and capture a broader sales profile

Edited March 9, 2013 by jpd80

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

I can't see the MKS selling any better to livery uses. I test drove one and I can't think of any current vehicle less able to compete in its class. I would have to put this poorly devolved (volvo to 500 to myopically styled claustrophobic barf-bag with plankton strainer nose) into the class of one the five most poorly conceived vehicles in FoMoCo history. Living out a life cycle history for a product that was dead on arrival makes little sense to me. It just drives the brand that much farther down and makes it that much harder to restore. Liquiditating the dog to livery for a couple of years doesn't help make Lincoln a desirable mark.

 

Why damage the value of the brand more for the unrealistic goal of recouping investment and making profit from a poor investment? Meanwhile the competition just gets further ahead in market share.

[RichardJensen]

Let him have his say. He is not breaking any rules here that I am aware of and he is not notorious for one liners like you are. Sometimes the truth is bitter and I certainly dont always agree with him but lets face it Lincoln has issues to put it mildly. I would hate to see this place get more like GMI. BON is not exactly the busiest forum on the net either. Sorry to get off topic. Carry on.

 

It is not what he says, it is the repetitive nature of it that offends.

 

Additionally, we are more concerned over the quality of posts, not the quantity of posts.

 

If quantity were the only thing that mattered, we would let FB post the same things over and over.

Edited March 9, 2013 by RichardJensen

[atomcat68]

I can't see the MKS selling any better to livery uses. I test drove one and I can't think of any current vehicle less able to compete in its class. I would have to put this poorly devolved (volvo to 500 to myopically styled claustrophobic barf-bag with plankton strainer nose) into the class of one the five most poorly conceived vehicles in FoMoCo history. Living out a life cycle history for a product that was dead on arrival makes little sense to me. It just drives the brand that much farther down and makes it that much harder to restore. Liquiditating the dog to livery for a couple of years doesn't help make Lincoln a desirable mark. Why damage the value of the brand more for the unrealistic goal of recouping investment and making profit from a poor investment? Meanwhile the competition just gets further ahead in market share.

The shame of this is that for 10,000 dollars less you can get the Taurus which is equal to or better than the MKS. You are better off buying an MKS used after the deprecation hits and then when price is more in line with what this car is really worth, it is actually pretty nice. The MKS sin is that this should not be priced like a luxury car when it competes more with the Avalon, Maxima and even Ford's own Taurus.

[papilgee4evaeva]

The shame of this is that for 10,000 dollars less you can get the Taurus which is equal to or better than the MKS. You are better off buying an MKS used after the deprecation hits and then when price is more in line with what this car is really worth, it is actually pretty nice. The MKS sin is that this should not be priced like a luxury car when it competes more with the Avalon, Maxima and even Ford's own Taurus.

I think both divisions share blame for that. Lincoln for not going far enough with MKS, and Ford for letting Taurus get that close to it.

[TBirdStangSkyliner]

I think both divisions share blame for that. Lincoln for not going far enough with MKS, and Ford for letting Taurus get that close to it.

 

I'm not sure what the upward space for Lincoln would be for this car. Adding more content and price to a vehicle which isn't competitive from the bones on up seems like a recipe for further failure.

[BORG]

Ford offers the UI and PI, makes sense for Lincoln to offer the MKT and MKS for similarly varied customers. Although it's clear the investment into the MKT Town Car didn't work out, even if the packaging for the MKT is ideally suited to it's core function of shuttling people around in space and comfort. The MKT is needlessly ugly, a problem Lincoln doesn't have the means to fix responsibly, as we saw with the tepid MCE.

 

In either case, fleeting is a bad habit that Lincoln needs to break and move on, I won't buy any Lincoln that essentially turns into a 'black taxi' like the MKT.

Edited March 10, 2013 by BORG

[jpd80]

Ford offers the UI and PI, makes sense for Lincoln to offer the MKT and MKS for similarly varied customers. Although it's clear the investment into the MKT Town Car didn't work out, even if the packaging for the MKT is ideally suited to it's core function of shuttling people around in space and comfort. The MKT is needlessly ugly, a problem Lincoln doesn't have the means to fix responsibly, as we saw with the tepid MCE.

 

In either case, fleeting is a bad habit that Lincoln needs to break and move on, I won't buy any Lincoln that essentially turns into a 'black taxi' like the MKT.

IMO, Livery based Lincolns should be based on vehicles that Lincoln buyers would actually like to own,

Town Car used to retail for around $46,000 and came as a long wheelbase and Extra long wheelbase.

Why Couldn't the next MKS be delivered in such a fashion and the MKT dropped in favor of an Aviator.

 

I do agree with you that Lincoln shouldn't be obsessing with Liveries but offering one good vehicle that's

suitable and noticeably different to the regular version would go a long way towards differentiating between

private buyers and fleet sales.

Edited March 10, 2013 by jpd80