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Joe771476

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My guess is the 10 speed would provide no benefit in a vehicle primarily used in low speed pickup/delivery service.  Note that the 650 and 750 still use the 6R140.

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I'm with you on diminishing returns. I also know it is Ford's way of things and always has been. Econoline used the 4r7Xx until it was finally dropped for 2015. Torqshift 5 started in 03, but only with 6.0L, and can't remember when they started using them in gas applications. In 2016 they finally went to 6r's only. They were the last to get Modulars, and then only 2 valve. Although 460 and 4R100 were available really late in the F53/59 too. In not changing powertrain options, you don't need to change cross member/mount locations and can use the same driveshafts. You also don't have to teach a bunch of new people to service new powertrain parts, just the updated portions.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

E-series, F53, and F59 are all still using the 6 speed auto with 7.3 V8 so I figure it is due to customer preference. 

 

Also, maybe there is no room in there for the 10 speed? Or it will involve some structure change that won't be cost effective?

More like Ford did the minimum of just replacing the HD 6.8 with the HD 7.3 and just reused the 6R 140 gearbox.

Ford saved a lot of money by just changing what it had to, the engine and leaving the rest alone.

 

That attitude of doing the minimum required flowed through to the MD trucks, especially when 2,000 is a  good sales month.

I am convinced that Ford is positioning F600 as an alternative to F650 and F550 buyers who need a bit more, Ford is  basically

asking buyers to choose which products they actually want......could Ford then consolidate MD truck to just one F700 and have

a true class 8 above it?

 

The F650 outsells the F750 by almost ten to one and with the  gasoline V10 being the majority of sales, Ford will be watching to see

if the 7.3 results in a marked increase in sales or if those MD gasoline buyers now head towards the new gas F600 and 10AT auto.

Edited by jpd80

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2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

More like Ford did the minimum of just replacing the HD 6.8 with the HD 7.3 and just reused the 6R 140 gearbox.

Ford saved a lot of money by just changing what it had to, the engine and leaving the rest alone.

 

That attitude of doing the minimum required flowed through to the MD trucks, especially when 2,000 is a  good sales month.

I am convinced that Ford is positioning F600 as an alternative to F650 and F550 buyers who need a bit more, Ford is  basically

asking buyers to choose which products they actually want......could Ford then consolidate MD truck to just one F700 and have

a true class 8 above it?

 

The F650 outsells the F750 by almost ten to one and with the  gasoline V10 being the majority of sales, Ford will be watching to see

if the 7.3 results in a marked increase in sales or if those MD gasoline buyers now head towards the new gas F600 and 10AT auto.

 

 

F-600 will do very well and for sure will take a lot of 650 sales-can't imagine "bed bug haulers" like U-haul paying a premium for 650 when the gvw of a 600 will suffice for the  target GVW.  Another advantage the- " non truck driver" clientele will be  a lot more comfortable in a 600.

But there will still be a need for a 26,000 gvw. for a lot of applications- like contractor dumps where a customer wants 5/6 yd body as well as ability to pull (and stop!) a tag trailer carrying a mini excavator or skid steer or a large chipper.

And I  think the 7.3 will be a homerun once it gets air brakes in 750 at 33,000 lb GVW.  The old LN-8000/800 was a very popular single axle dump back in its day with its 429, 3208 Cat or 7.8 Ford diesels. The 7.3-in spite of some who say .."not enough power" ..has as much as the old 401 and even the 477 Super duty and when you look at the up front cost advantage, unless a guy is running high annual miles or towing at the max,  that motor will do well.

As for class 8, I don't think we will ever see a "large car" sleeper from Ford again, but I think it is a mistake not to put a tandem on the 750.  There are plenty of operators who need the GVW and again, use the truck as a "conveyance"-like it has a Vactor with its own big bore diesel and just sits all day moving around a job site.  Or is a delivery vehicle that does not run high mileage.  It would not take much for Ford to do that and it would open up a lot more sales opportunities IMO.  Needless to say, A Duratorque from Turkey as well as an Allison would make the truck a lot more attractive  as well.

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Nice print ad in Firehouse mag showing an F550 emergency vehicle with byline, "Built to support those who support the world. When the need has never been bigger, Ford is proud to help get the job done, just as we have been for over 100 years."  I wish I could see an F8000 commercial fire chassis for a tandem axle tanker/pumper in their portfolio based on the new aluminum cab!  Wouldn't that be a pretty sight!?  Then I would be proud!

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4 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Nice print ad in Firehouse mag showing an F550 emergency vehicle with byline, "Built to support those who support the world. When the need has never been bigger, Ford is proud to help get the job done, just as we have been for over 100 years."  I wish I could see an F8000 commercial fire chassis for a tandem axle tanker/pumper in their portfolio based on the new aluminum cab!  Wouldn't that be a pretty sight!?  Then I would be proud!

well Joe I like those current "Ford Proud ads" .  There is one however that shows a bucket truck from the rear.   Duh-how difficult to get a shot from the front showing the Blue Oval?  

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I think the big question will be what happens if Avon Lake is turned over to BEV production.  Looking at what GM is doing at Detroit-Hamtramck is leading me to believe that BEV production is so different than conventional vehicle production that the plant either needs to be new from the ground up or at least completely gutted.  Not seeing where BEV's and conventional vehicles, let alone commercial trucks, could be built under the same roof.  If there is sufficient land adjacent to the existing Avon Lake facility maybe the plan is to build another plant for BEV's on site, utilizing existing highway and rail service.  If the existing Avon Lake plant was to be completely turned over to BEV production, I figure Super Duty 350-600 chassis-cab production could be consolidated back to the KTP and possibly the E series could be consolidated with Transit production, possibly facilitating a new generation E series having some commonality with the Transit.  The F-650-750 and F-53-59 could almost be built anywhere, or could be farmed out to a partner.  Remember there were cryptic allusions about identifying commercial vehicle partners in the last senior management shakeup a few months ago?

 

          

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1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

I just found this.  This rail line is using a 5-cylinder Ford Duratorq for power in England!!

 

Viva Vivarail’s D-train transformation!
 


Interesting read.  Looks like physical size and emissions capabilities are what sold it.  

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Are the F-53 and 59 still  built by Detroit Chassis?

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Posted (edited)

They managed to build a tick over 500 units last month.

Edited by jpd80

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7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

They managed to build a tick over 500 units last month.

Wow- note their website..."capability of 80,000 per ear"

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2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Wow- note their website..."capability of 80,000 per ear"

No, they normally only do about 2,000 units in a good month.

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Didn't think this deserved its own thread and figured it sort of applied here:

 

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/06/26/california-zero-emissions-trucks-mandate/

 



California on Thursday approved a groundbreaking policy to wean its trucking sector off of diesel fuel by requiring manufacturers to sell a rising number of zero-emissions vehicles, starting in 2024.

The mandate, passed unanimously by the California Air Resources Board (CARB), was hailed as a major step toward reducing climate-warming emissions and improving public health for low-income communities near busy highway corridors and ports.
 

“California is once again leading the nation in the fight to make our air cleaner,” Gov. Gavin Newsom said after the vote.

Environmentalists say the mandate, which applies to medium-duty and large trucks, will put an estimated 300,000 zero-emission trucks on the road by 2035.

The proposed mandate is expected to start in the 2024 model year and initially require 5%-9% zero-emission vehicles (ZEV) based on class, rising to 30%-50% by 2030. By 2045, all vehicles should be ZEVs “where feasible.”

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Maybe this ZEV requirement will be the impetus for Ford to finally come up with an E-series replacement.

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Interesting but not unexpected.  I tend to doubt this actually needs to be mandated, I think BEV trucks will be superior enough to ICE trucks in 20 years the market will naturally turn to electric trucks.  Article mentions Tesla, Volvo and General Motors, all of which have announced commercial electric vehicle programs along with Nikola who has a prototype truck, hype, some investment and not much else.  Wonder why Ford wasn't mentioned. 

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I wonder if the Zev mandate spreads to all of the California aligned states or is that now a given...

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