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The Ford Order Tracking System Is No Longer Available.  THANKS Cyberdman For Making Available All Of These Past Years.  More Here.

Joe771476

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9 hours ago, twintornados said:

Loved the show....even if they drove a Dodge.

 

 

 

Jack Webb produced 'Emergency', and he was a stickler for details.  When the County of Los Angeles started their paramedic program, they used the many Dodge D-300 rescue squads they had in their fleet.  So, Universal Studios bought a new Dodge and had it outfitted with the same body and equipment the County used for the show.  The pumper originally was an older Crown Firecoach borrowed from the County's reserve fleet, but later when the County bought new Ward LaFrance pumpers (and the show was a big hit $$$) Universal bought their own Ward.  Story was they paid for one additional truck on the County's order. 

 

L.A. County was a big Chrysler customer but by the late 70's they started buying Chevy C-30's for paramedic squads.  They had Ford F-350's in the 90's but went back to Dodge (Ram) in recent years.       

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1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

Jack Webb produced 'Emergency', and he was a stickler for details.

Jack’s company produced the show, but it was Robert Cinader who ran it and was the stickler for detail. Per Randolph Mantooth, Cinader  required that the basis for every story come from a fire department log book; it didn’t have to come from an LA County log book, but it did have to come from a FD log book somewhere in the US. 

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6 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

Jack’s company produced the show, but it was Robert Cinader who ran it and was the stickler for detail. Per Randolph Mantooth, Cinader  required that the basis for every story come from a fire department log book; it didn’t have to come from an LA County log book, but it did have to come from a FD log book somewhere in the US. 

 

Yes, Cinader and Webb were cut from the same cloth!  

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16 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

Jack’s company produced the show, but it was Robert Cinader who ran it and was the stickler for detail. Per Randolph Mantooth, Cinader  required that the basis for every story come from a fire department log book; it didn’t have to come from an LA County log book, but it did have to come from a FD log book somewhere in the US. 


Well they need him on Fire Country.  Great characters and actors but I had to stop watching because the fire and rescue scenes were not just inaccurate but completely illogical.

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On 1/21/2023 at 12:51 PM, Jake sommers said:

What did you go with as a conclusion

Well as for a "conclusion" .........I guess I would say glad they finally figured out a way to overcome the underhood temps that I was told was the reason the 7.3 was not offered with air brakes.  Apparently the required compressor plumbing could not stand up to the 7.3's operating temps???🙄..Like the 6.7 doesn't produce a lot of underhood heat?  So good news as the 7.3's lower cost will be attractive to a lot of buyers that can't justify the 6.7 premium.

 

As for the tractor package, if in fact that is no longer offered, IMO a short sighted move-or evidence again that the planners don't really understand the class 6 and 7 market.  As I said, air brakes will be a popular choice for many and in particular those that pull tag trailers.  The "tractor package" was also beneficial in  that it provided everything needed to supply "air to the rear" to facilitate setting up the truck to pull tag trailers.  Absent the package, just another PITA associated with buying a Ford vs a Binder or a F-liner.

 

Last point about trailers, the 750 PS/Torqueshift would be a good choice for the beverage industry when they use single axle side loader trailers.  But case in point about being clueless, Ford had sales literature that featured a crew cab 750 tractor in "Allied"orange hooked up to an orange box.  Reasonable combination right?.  Then they turn around and use that same orange crew cab in literature that shows it hooked to a BLUE single axle side loader beverage trailer.!    Clueless, but other than that choice of tractor, it does show that someone in marketing must have recognized beverage is a viable market...they just never signed off on the add copy I guess.

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32 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

I guess I would say glad they finally figured out a way to overcome the underhood temps that I was told was the reason the 7.3 was not offered with air brakes.  Apparently the required compressor plumbing could not stand up to the 7.3's operating temps???🙄..Like the 6.7 doesn't produce a lot of underhood heat?

The PSD probably makes more heat, but its exhaust is in the valley of the V8, so it may not produce as much heat in the lower half of the engine compartment as the more conventionally-designed Godzilla. (I don’t know for a fact that the different heat loading is enough to make a difference, I’m just speculating.)

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On 1/22/2023 at 5:09 PM, SoonerLS said:

Jack’s company produced the show, but it was Robert Cinader who ran it and was the stickler for detail. Per Randolph Mantooth, Cinader  required that the basis for every story come from a fire department log book; it didn’t have to come from an LA County log book, but it did have to come from a FD log book somewhere in the US. 

 

I remember hearing that as well.  At first the writers balked at the idea, but when they started reading some of the actual calls departments ran, the writers were like, "We couldn't make this stuff up in a million years!

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3 hours ago, hwyman3 said:

 

I remember hearing that as well.  At first the writers balked at the idea, but when they started reading some of the actual calls departments ran, the writers were like, "We couldn't make this stuff up in a million years!

 

It all came from Jack Webb.  He did that with 'Dragnet' and 'Adam-12'.  That guy invented reality T.V. (radio) 65+ years ago.

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On 1/23/2023 at 1:23 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

Well as for a "conclusion" .........I guess I would say glad they finally figured out a way to overcome the underhood temps that I was told was the reason the 7.3 was not offered with air brakes.  Apparently the required compressor plumbing could not stand up to the 7.3's operating temps???🙄..Like the 6.7 doesn't produce a lot of underhood heat?  So good news as the 7.3's lower cost will be attractive to a lot of buyers that can't justify the 6.7 premium.

 

As for the tractor package, if in fact that is no longer offered, IMO a short sighted move-or evidence again that the planners don't really understand the class 6 and 7 market.  As I said, air brakes will be a popular choice for many and in particular those that pull tag trailers.  The "tractor package" was also beneficial in  that it provided everything needed to supply "air to the rear" to facilitate setting up the truck to pull tag trailers.  Absent the package, just another PITA associated with buying a Ford vs a Binder or a F-liner.

 

Last point about trailers, the 750 PS/Torqueshift would be a good choice for the beverage industry when they use single axle side loader trailers.  But case in point about being clueless, Ford had sales literature that featured a crew cab 750 tractor in "Allied"orange hooked up to an orange box.  Reasonable combination right?.  Then they turn around and use that same orange crew cab in literature that shows it hooked to a BLUE single axle side loader beverage trailer.!    Clueless, but other than that choice of tractor, it does show that someone in marketing must have recognized beverage is a viable market...they just never signed off on the add copy I guess.

 

As someone who oversees A LOT of single axle tractor sales to beverage companies, a Ford beverage tractor would be a waste of time.  The cab is too long (nearly a foot longer BBC), the inside is too small with terrible ingress/egress, has terrible visibility and a much wider turning radius than most of the competition.  Nobody would buy it.....that may be harsh but that's the truth.  Ford knows what limitations they have with that cab and their dealer network so their product offerings reflect that.  

Edited by iamweasel

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On 1/23/2023 at 1:35 PM, SoonerLS said:

The PSD probably makes more heat, but its exhaust is in the valley of the V8, so it may not produce as much heat in the lower half of the engine compartment as the more conventionally-designed Godzilla. (I don’t know for a fact that the different heat loading is enough to make a difference, I’m just speculating.)

"S"

You may be right but I believe the reason for sticking the turbo in the "V" was to reduce turbo lag..there is still plenty of piping and a gallon of diesel has higher BTU content than gasoline.. not sure if in the combustion process that is a factor that translates into more heat all around the engine but I think too much heat from the 7.3 is BS.  Regardless I guess a moot point because you now CAN get air brakes with a 7.3...Mission accomplished.😎

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23 hours ago, iamweasel said:

 

As someone who oversees A LOT of single axle tractor sales to beverage companies, a Ford beverage tractor would be a waste of time.  The cab is too long (nearly a foot longer BBC), the inside is too small with terrible ingress/egress, has terrible visibility and a much wider turning radius than most of the competition.  Nobody would buy it.....that may be harsh but that's the truth.  Ford knows what limitations they have with that cab and their dealer network so their product offerings reflect that.  

No argument...I would rather be in your shoes selling F'liners? Binders? what ever than 750's.  I never said it was a better truck.  And I and many others have questioned when we might see a new purpose built cab that could be reworked and utilized for medium F's as well as the E series.  But that apparently is not in the cards as many have pointed out..Ford is happy to get what they can out of the current cab.

 

My point was from a current plant utilization perspective, any unit you push out the door at OAP (assuming priced correctly)  improves profitability.  And while some may say the cab is "too small", is it too small for the thousands of 450/550's in service?  Is it smaller than a 70's F-750 with its alligator hood that many LTL carriers in that era used as a cost effective P & D tractor instead of paying the premium for an LN??

 

I guess I wish Ford had a mind set that asked....What can we do to make our product more attractive to more people.  The 7.3 is an example, now that it offers an air brake will be attractive given its price differential over a PS.  And no one else offers a gasoline conventional cab.. that is at least today.

PS The Rhino distributor in my area (returnable Propane 20lb) uses single axle side loaders with Cascadias-Ryder must have really sharpened their pencil to get some single axles out of inventory.

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32 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

No argument...I would rather be in your shoes selling F'liners? Binders? what ever than 750's.  I never said it was a better truck.  And I and many others have questioned when we might see a new purpose built cab that could be reworked and utilized for medium F's as well as the E series.  But that apparently is not in the cards as many have pointed out..Ford is happy to get what they can out of the current cab.

 

My point was from a current plant utilization perspective, any unit you push out the door at OAP (assuming priced correctly)  improves profitability.  And while some may say the cab is "too small", is it too small for the thousands of 450/550's in service?  Is it smaller than a 70's F-750 with its alligator hood that many LTL carriers in that era used as a cost effective P & D tractor instead of paying the premium for an LN??

 

I guess I wish Ford had a mind set that asked....What can we do to make our product more attractive to more people.  The 7.3 is an example, now that it offers an air brake will be attractive given its price differential over a PS.  And no one else offers a gasoline conventional cab.. that is at least today.

PS The Rhino distributor in my area (returnable Propane 20lb) uses single axle side loaders with Cascadias-Ryder must have really sharpened their pencil to get some single axles out of inventory.

 

Here is where I will push back on what you said: 

 

"My point was from a current plant utilization perspective, any unit you push out the door at OAP (assuming priced correctly)  improves profitability."

 

That is not necessarily true.  To make ONE tractor, it takes A TON of money to bring that configuration to market.  To justify the up-front cost you have to make enough variable profit on each unit, and sell enough of them to recoup that investment plus whatever profit % you want to make.    The first units out the door are actually money losers.  You hope to start making money on the back end, but given the low profit #'s on 650/750 that's tough to do varations that may have very little volume.

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If the F750 tractor were a new model and a tractor version had to be developed, that might be true. But the F750 tractor has been around for years and the development costs were long ago paid for... So F750 tractors should be just as profitable as the rest of the F series heavies. 

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29 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

If the F750 tractor were a new model and a tractor version had to be developed, that might be true. But the F750 tractor has been around for years and the development costs were long ago paid for... So F750 tractors should be just as profitable as the rest of the F series heavies. 

Could F750 tractor be limited to on request builds?

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1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

If the F750 tractor were a new model and a tractor version had to be developed, that might be true. But the F750 tractor has been around for years and the development costs were long ago paid for... So F750 tractors should be just as profitable as the rest of the F series heavies. 

Correct...all tractor options, including "air to rear" for tag trailer applications are listed  in '23 order guides.  Tractor packages are not new to 650/750.  All this started when 7M3 posted as something he heard-and he usually has good info.  Plus the info listed on Ford.com is minimal and makes no mention of tractor service....sooo, I guess we will have to wait for 2024 order guides  to come out.

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16 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Correct...all tractor options, including "air to rear" for tag trailer applications are listed  in '23 order guides.  Tractor packages are not new to 650/750.  All this started when 7M3 posted as something he heard-and he usually has good info.  Plus the info listed on Ford.com is minimal and makes no mention of tractor service....sooo, I guess we will have to wait for 2024 order guides  to come out.

 

Must have missed that I guess.  Can't recall last time I've seen a new-ish Ford tractor....either way, still a waste of time for Ford to deal with that.  :)

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Actually more of a waste to not fully develop a model and it's variants to maximize it's appeal to diverse customers once the investment has been made in the F650/750. For example, tandem drive axles have probably already been engineered and with the PS V8 good for at least 50K GCW, the same engine should be able to provide a 50K GVW which is enough for many government buyers, landscapers, and small contractors. Look what Daimler has done with the Business Class-  Their options list is a small book so customers can design the exact truck for their needs. Some of this stuff is just stupid simple- Like a rear seat delete option for customers who need protected space for electronic gear, protective clothing, etc.. And if Ford can offer factory built 4x4s at modest extra cost up through the F600, why can't they factory build F650/750s 4x4s too at a price thousands of dollars less aftermarket conversions? 

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12 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

Actually more of a waste to not fully develop a model and it's variants to maximize it's appeal to diverse customers once the investment has been made in the F650/750. For example, tandem drive axles have probably already been engineered and with the PS V8 good for at least 50K GCW, the same engine should be able to provide a 50K GVW which is enough for many government buyers, landscapers, and small contractors. Look what Daimler has done with the Business Class-  Their options list is a small book so customers can design the exact truck for their needs. Some of this stuff is just stupid simple- Like a rear seat delete option for customers who need protected space for electronic gear, protective clothing, etc.. And if Ford can offer factory built 4x4s at modest extra cost up through the F600, why can't they factory build F650/750s 4x4s too at a price thousands of dollars less aftermarket conversions? 

GG

All valid points but some how or other, Ford has a mind set that is .."good enough to get by".  In particular  your comment on the tandem option.  As I see it, not 44 or 46 rears that are going to be in heavy service, but say 34 or 38 ratings that are needed in  some low mileage operations where axle ratings are needed say when  the truck is a  carrier for mounted equipment like a Vactor that is going to sit at a construction site all day while underground piping, conduit is exposed.

The '24 order guide should be interesting.

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Worth Noting:

 

Ford has trademarked both F-150 Thunder and Maverick Thunder.

 

Not sure if it is just to save it since thunder and lightning are associated of if another trim level/package/sub-model is on the way. 

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Finally catching up on some stuff and got around to the heavy truck estimates for November and December/Q4 of '22:

 

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Well I  got a copy of '24 650/750 order guide.  "Tractor option" deleted and while the Ford.com web site under "commercial truck specifications" lists air brakes as an option on gas 650/750, order guide lists gas as a NA.

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