Joe771476 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Huh?! This could be interesting. I can't see for what purpose except for the one I state in the "light and medium duty" thread. But can anyone throw out for discussion what synergies would be brought to the table? I can't, especially with Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 This is Marchionne looking for another host organism for Fiat: http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/58529-fiat-chrysler-ceo-says-combination-with-gm-ford-feasible/ Nothing to see here. Fiat has absolutely nothing to offer Ford at a price Ford would be willing to pay. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) "Host organism". You got that right. The only thing more ridiculous than Serg's statements are those that believe they have a shot of coming true. FCA will likely find a partner(s), but they will be second and third tier players like Mazda and Mitsubishi. Suzuki might be a good match if they can pry that last bit from VW. Edited March 15, 2015 by 7Mary3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Ford has already shot this down by saying they are only going to stick to the "One Ford" plan. I can't find the link now, but GM was less than polite by saying something to the effect that this offer doesn't even dignify a response. After the Fiat put option, I can see some of the hostility, but GM did bring that on them selves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Also, as I said in the other thread, I now think Marchionne is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I mean, how is this feasible? GM's four bands in the USA: Chevy, Buick, GMC, Caddy merged with Chrysler, Dodge, Ram, Jeep and now Fiat's three (Fiat Maserati and now the Alfa they just spent Chrysler's 7 billion to revive.) Ferrari is spun off. Ten brands! This is after GM shed four and still has a problem with the overlap with the remaining four. You will have Caddy and Alfa which just had fortunes thrown at reviving them competing with each other. (Alfa would be squashed by Caddy in the USA... Oh hell! Alfa will be squashed by every luxury brand in the universe). Three truck brands with two different lines of trucks. Chrysler vs Buick and Chevy vs Dodge. All the brands that would die would be Chrysler and Fiat's leaving GM with too much production capacity especially in Europe. The only feasible thing would be joint venture developments like the GM/Ford transmissions, but GM can't trust Fiat because of past dealings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 If I were in charge of GM, my official response would be: Aaaaa hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Hahahahaha... NO! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I suppose that any merger by any two automakers is "Feasible." However, there are some partners that are better than others. Remember in 2008, there were some in the feds that were pushing a GM/Chrysler merger. Mergers are tricky. The Daimler/Chrysler "merger" was supposed to be a match made in heaven with literally zero product overlap. We see the disaster that became. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I suppose that any merger by any two automakers is "Feasible." However, there are some partners that are better than others. Remember in 2008, there were some in the feds that were pushing a GM/Chrysler merger. Mergers are tricky. The Daimler/Chrysler "merger" was supposed to be a match made in heaven with literally zero product overlap. We see the disaster that became. Chalk that up to Dr. Z not having a clue what to do with Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Chalk that up to Dr. Z not having a clue what to do with Chrysler. Oh Daimler knew all right, they took all of Chrysler's money and did the bolt, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Oh Daimler knew all right, they took all of Chrysler's money and did the bolt,In the end, yeah. That's exactly what ended up happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97svtgoin05gt Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 This guys nuts. I don't see it happening unless its with someone small such as Mazda or Mitsubishi and putting Mitsubishi in it would be putting them out of their brutal misery. If their sales languish much more they'll need to give the stuff away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The only real way for an auto merger to work well is for a company who can grow in one market but can't afford to put up a plant uses the other with an over capacity in that region so it can build its cars in that plant. Maybe if Mazda showed it could grow in Europe, it could use Fiat's plants to build Mazda cars, and Fiat/Chrysler would then be able to sell in Mazda/Autozam dealerships in Japan and Asia markets where they have less access. The problem with this is that many Europeans will experience Mazda cars that will rust or have the doors fall off in the first year. The best way to work with other companies at this point is to do joint venture projects like engine and transmissions or car platforms without merging. I'm thinking cooperation ventures rather than buying out another company and wasting money on the buyout, killing bad brands and shutting plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 But if you don't merge, Atomcat, you don't get access to the other company's sweet pile of juicy, succulent cash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 So much of that cash would be wasted trying to right the ship of the combined company. You're just putting off paying the reaper a little while. You are much better off managing your company and making the hard decisions that hurt today, but will make a better future. Marchionne is not or is ever willing to do that, nor has he shown he can come up with any future plan at all. (is Alfa coming or not, now Chrysler is a mainstream brand and Dodge is a performance brand not SVT after one model year, Chryslers will be sold as Lancias in Europe, now there won't be a Lancia they are again Chryslers ect). He changes his mind so much and so radically he seems borderline schizophrenic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 So much of that cash would be wasted trying to right the ship of the combined company. You're just putting off paying the reaper a little while. You are much better off managing your company and making the hard decisions that hurt today, but will make a better future. Marchionne is not or is ever willing to do that, nor has he shown he can come up with any future plan at all. (is Alfa coming or not, now Chrysler is a mainstream brand and Dodge is a performance brand not SVT after one model year, Chryslers will be sold as Lancias in Europe, now there won't be a Lancia they are again Chryslers ect). He changes his mind so much and so radically he seems borderline schizophrenic. This is becoming a GM discussion situation where you're trying to apply logic and fact to this discussion, where clearly none exists by Marchionne... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Maybe they'll merge with Tesla... Musk and Marchionne would be great to watch.I think they will merge with VW, other than some issues in South America they wouldn't get much anti-trust pushback. VW is a joke in NA and outside of Italy Fiat doesn't have much mass market share in Europe to be a concern (4.5%) Saying he is open to it paves the way for him to look good as he offered to sell the company back to an American Company but they declined.I do agree with him in that you will see a consolidation in the Industry over the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Didn't we discuss this topic last week? There is really no point for FCA to combine with Ford or GM because all three companies have extensive market penetration in the same areas: North America, South America, Europe. The only upside to combine with Ford or GM is to catch up in China and India where FCA lags far far behind every major car company. FCA really needs an Asian partner but there are very few options and all of them bad: FCA-Hyundai is a powerful combination on paper but the Koreans will not take a back seat to Sergio. There will be ego clash of epic proportions. FCA-Mitsubishi makes a lot of sense because Mitsubishi is a strong player in Southeast Asia, one of the few growth markets that FCA has no presence. However, this is pretty one-sided in favor of Mitsubishi, which needs a lifeline. FCA has very little immediate gain (no cash to raid). This will be a long term strategic play, which is not a Sergio thing. FCA-Mazda could be good, but Mazda is probably not very interested beyond the current model-specific cooperation on Mazda MX-5/Fiat Spyder. I think there is some potential here for expanding the model-specific cooperation beyond just sports car... for example Mazda desperately needs a new midsize SUV and FCA has plenty of SUV options. FCA-Suzuki is an interesting option. There is cash, lots of it in fact. Suzuki also has a grip on the only relevant part of the Japanese auto market (kei cars), and a large emerging markets in India. The issue is likely again, a cultural fit... Suzuki is Japanese to its core and doesn't play well with others. Sergio is the consummate snake oil salesman that tends to not work very well with consensus forming management style of Japanese companies. Edited March 16, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Didn't we discuss this topic last week? There is really no point for FCA to combine with Ford or GM... Well, yes we did, but someone needs to explain this to Fiat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBirdStangSkyliner Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Now that FCA has spun-off Ferrari, they have nothing with more appeal than Mama Boo Boo on crack to bring into a merger with Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 After seeing the new GT it's obvious they didn't need Ferrari either! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBirdStangSkyliner Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 After seeing the new GT it's obvious they didn't need Ferrari either! That's true about the GT as far it having the makings of being a car that go head to head against any Ferrari. But the decades of consistency and fanaticism for that brand has it perennially selling out its production runs at highly inflated prices. With the super-rich continuing to emerge all over the world, it's cachet has long-term value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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