Ford July 2017 Sales Down 7.5% Overall; Lincoln down 2.5%

[MKII]

Camry and accord have brand loyalty...suffice to say fusion cannot play in that rarefied air...very rarely will fusion steal a sale from camry or accord...old habits and old perceptions die hard..if accord had a square steering wheel it would still out sell fusion...my kid has a 15 fusion..damn nice ride for a mid size...too bad ford just let that car to rot

I remember reading a USA brand loyalty study done a couple years ago and Ford had the top percentage of return customers above 40% if my memory is correct. And the Fusion was the highest with around 56% returning customers. Honda & Toyota where in the top ten for sure but to say the Ford brand does not have brand loyalty I think is incorrect.

 

EDIT - I found a more recent study for 2016 http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/experian-automotive-vehicle-loyalty-rates-rank-high-as-consumers-show-the-love-300199092.html

Edited August 3, 2017 by MKII

[MKII]

This could be a problem spot for new car sales

Wave of off-lease vehicles challenge major automakers

Major automakers have relied heavily on leased vehicles to boost sales of new cars in the last few years. But with anywhere up to 12 million of these relatively low-mileage vehicles due to hit the market over the next three years, they are likely to depress prices and cannibalize new car sales

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-used-analysis-idUSKBN1880KE

[akirby]

I know you and I harp a lot on the lame MCEs, but it really has an impact. The Fusion was/is a good car, but they completely stalled its momentum with such little change. There are still a ton of midsized sales to be had, and fresh looking products sell. Why buy a new Fusion for the very reason you mentioned above. It's so disappointing.

 

Obviously I agree with you but that wasn't my point here. My point was strictly about a dealer purchasing a used Fusion to sell on the used lot. If they can go to the auction and buy them all day for $X why would they pay $1K more to buy one coming off a lease? Now if it was a hard to find vehicle that's different, but there is no reason a dealer would pay a premium on a wholesale purchase if the auction lots are full of the same vehicles at a much lower wholesale cost.

[rperez817]

Fleet sales were down 26.4% which has to account for a lot of the drop.

 

Hooray! Hopefully Ford can get fleet sales percentage below 20% in the months to come.

[akirby]

Camry and accord have brand loyalty...suffice to say fusion cannot play in that rarefied air...very rarely will fusion steal a sale from camry or accord...old habits and old perceptions die hard..if accord had a square steering wheel it would still out sell fusion...my kid has a 15 fusion..damn nice ride for a mid size...too bad ford just let that car to rot

 

Not exactly. Camry and Accord have model loyalty. They aren't selling that many Camcords to first time Camcord buyers - the majority are returning buyers upgrading to a newer model - especially leases. You don't get to 30K-40K sales per month with only new buyers. Notice the jump in Fusion sales in 2009 and 2013 - those were new or heavily refreshed models. 2006-2009 were all new buyers. 2009 you still have the new buyers but you also have folks upgrading to the new refreshed version. Same in 2013. Each refresh/new model you build up more and more repeat buyers. That's why doing a refresh or new model every 3-4 years is critical and that's where Ford is losing with Fusion and Focus at least.

 

Most Fusion buyers are perfectly happy with their Fusions and would probably continue buying them if they made some recognizable changes. And they can steal some sales from Camcord but only with fresh products.

[akirby]

 

Hooray! Hopefully Ford can get fleet sales percentage below 20% in the months to come.

 

Only if they want to throw away profits.....

 

You still don't get it and probably never will.

[grbeck]

Regarding changes to mid-size cars to maintain sales momentum - the current Chevrolet Malibu is all-new, and it has received decent reviews. But sales are still slumping.

[rmc523]

Camry and accord have brand loyalty...suffice to say fusion cannot play in that rarefied air...very rarely will fusion steal a sale from camry or accord...old habits and old perceptions die hard..if accord had a square steering wheel it would still out sell fusion...my kid has a 15 fusion..damn nice ride for a mid size...too bad ford just let that car to rot

 

Exaggerate much? The MCE could've/should've gone farther, but they've hardly let it rot on the vine.

 

 

Hooray! Hopefully Ford can get fleet sales percentage below 20% in the months to come.

 

You don't seem to understand that not all fleet sales are bad, especially when you consider a huge percentage of Ford's fleet sales are because of the trucks and vans.

 

Regarding changes to mid-size cars to maintain sales momentum - the current Chevrolet Malibu is all-new, and it has received decent reviews. But sales are still slumping.

 

Chevy was in a weaker position to begin with, which can't help.

[akirby]

Regarding changes to mid-size cars to maintain sales momentum - the current Chevrolet Malibu is all-new, and it has received decent reviews. But sales are still slumping.

 

Fusion was selling over 25K before. Even at a 20% reduction that's still 20K per month or 240K per year. That's almost an entire plant's capacity and that would make it the #3 seller behind Escape and F series.

 

You don't just walk away from that kind of volume.

[grbeck]

I'm not saying that either Ford or GM should abandon this segment, but Malibu sales show that fresh design can only do so much in some cases to maintain sales. It will be interesting to see how the all-new 2018 Accord fares.

[tbone]

Regarding changes to mid-size cars to maintain sales momentum - the current Chevrolet Malibu is all-new, and it has received decent reviews. But sales are still slumping.

IMO, the Malibu had no brand momentum prior to this model to build on, so it was already too late to a declining market regardless how good the car was and only had a small group of potential repeat buyers to work with. I don't feel that was the case with the Fusion.

[akirby]

The market is down 20% or so. Fusion is down 30% ytd and 42% last month. With a refresh it would likely only be down 20% or 25%. To me that's more than enough to justify a substantial refresh even in a declining market.

 

The market isn't going to 0 or anywhere close to 0.

[tbone]

Agreed^^^

[jcartwright99]

IMO, the Malibu had no brand momentum prior to this model to build on, so it was already too late to a declining market regardless how good the car was and only had a small group of potential repeat buyers to work with. I don't feel that was the case with the Fusion.

 

 

As a 2017 Fusion owner, I am not exactly sure why everyone is panning the Fusion right now. Sure, the MCE exterior wise was very very mild. In my opinion though, the interior and new layout with Sync 3 is great. Could they have done more absolutely. A 9 (or maybe 8) speed transmission ( I know it wasn't ready yet but still) and some weight loss would have made a big difference. I will say the hybrid has stagnated, and the Sport could have been a lot better (seemed like a half ass attempt). No car is perfect but for me, the 2.0 Fusion made the most sense. I just wonder how long until this segment shrinks even more. At what point do some modest sellers, get out of the midsize market? We have already lost the 200 Dart? Isn't the 200 on borrowed time?

 

I actually looked at the Accord which is pretty much almost Taurus sized now. Not a fan of a CVT for 4 cylinder model and V6 model was probably a little more than I wanted to spend. Malibu while nice, is hideous to look at.

Edited August 3, 2017 by jcartwright99

[Kev-Mo]

Camry and accord have brand loyalty...suffice to say fusion cannot play in that rarefied air...very rarely will fusion steal a sale from camry or accord...old habits and old perceptions die hard..if accord had a square steering wheel it would still out sell fusion...my kid has a 15 fusion..damn nice ride for a mid size...too bad ford just let that car to rot

 

I'm just glad we are finally focusing on the strengths of Toyota and Honda in the discussion - rather than weakness of GM and FCA.

We are acknowledging who the real long term competitors are!

I just can't imagine anyone who has a pulse test driving a Fusion, then buying a Camry. I think this buyer says - "Let's go to the Toyota store and buy a car today..." This is a tough market but if Ford wants to stick around for long-term as anything more than a Pickup Truck company, they need to find a way to lure this type of customer.

[silvrsvt]

I just can't imagine anyone who has a pulse test driving a Fusion, then buying a Camry. I think this buyer says - "Let's go to the Toyota store and buy a car today..." This is a tough market but if Ford wants to stick around for long-term as anything more than a Pickup Truck company, they need to find a way to lure this type of customer.

 

The problem is that they really won't....just flip this around with Toyota...don't you think they would trade their left nut for the sales number that the F-series gets? Using price a metric, the F-series is best selling "luxury" car in the world (cars costing over $35-40K..whatever cut of is for that these days)

 

Ford targeted the owners of the F-series that also owned an Japanese make car with the Fusion.

 

Some markets or more or less stagnant and there where always be a winner or losers in them....prime examples being full sized pickups and mid-size sedans. Unless the market leader completely fucks up or goes the wrong direction with their product, its going to be hard to unseat them.

 

Ford should be more concerned in markets like the small SUV market where the Escape was the best seller and is number 4 now and other "growth" markets like CUVs that are still fairly unestablished with buyers.

 

The last time we had a major market disruption with a product IMO was with the Explorer in 1992. We really haven't experienced anything like that since then.

[Harley Lover]

Ford should be more concerned in markets like the small SUV market where the Escape was the best seller and is number 4 now and other "growth" markets like CUVs that are still fairly unestablished with buyers.

 

The last time we had a major market disruption with a product IMO was with the Explorer in 1992. We really haven't experienced anything like that since then.

 

Great point. Small CUV's are hitting big as a segment, and the Ecosport simply does not represent Ford's best effort (and it's not even here yet). They have to do better, and quickly. The example of the 1992 Explorer is great, because it influenced a generation of buyers to favor Ford in much the same way that the Accord and Camry are being described.

[akirby]

As a 2017 Fusion owner, I am not exactly sure why everyone is panning the Fusion right now. Sure, the MCE exterior wise was very very mild. In my opinion though, the interior and new layout with Sync 3 is great.

 

I've said before - the current Fusion is still a great car.

 

However.......

 

If you had previously owned a 2014 Fusion coming off lease would you have bought a 2017 Fusion which for all intents and purposes is the same car?

[Kev-Mo]

 

Ecosport simply does not represent Ford's best effort (and it's not even here yet). They have to do better, and quickly.

There is the entire discussion in a nutshell!

[akirby]

 

I'm just glad we are finally focusing on the strengths of Toyota and Honda in the discussion - rather than weakness of GM and FCA.

We are acknowledging who the real long term competitors are!

I just can't imagine anyone who has a pulse test driving a Fusion, then buying a Camry. I think this buyer says - "Let's go to the Toyota store and buy a car today..." This is a tough market but if Ford wants to stick around for long-term as anything more than a Pickup Truck company, they need to find a way to lure this type of customer.

 

Ford sold 250K+ Fusions even with strong Camcord sales. All they need to do is continue doing what they've been doing but keep the product updated.

[silvrsvt]

 

If you had previously owned a 2014 Fusion coming off lease would you have bought a 2017 Fusion which for all intents and purposes is the same car?

 

Well its not like the Camcord has had that much changes over the past 20 years or so either..at least in the styling dept.

[snooter]

I'm just glad we are finally focusing on the strengths of Toyota and Honda in the discussion - rather than weakness of GM and FCA.

We are acknowledging who the real long term competitors are!

I just can't imagine anyone who has a pulse test driving a Fusion, then buying a Camry. I think this buyer says - "Let's go to the Toyota store and buy a car today..." This is a tough market but if Ford wants to stick around for long-term as anything more than a Pickup Truck company, they need to find a way to lure this type of customer.

 

Thats the reality... Edited August 3, 2017 by snooter

[jcartwright99]

 

I've said before - the current Fusion is still a great car.

 

However.......

 

If you had previously owned a 2014 Fusion coming off lease would you have bought a 2017 Fusion which for all intents and purposes is the same car?

 

Point taken! I think the only major mechanical differences, would be the Sport and what it brought to the table (2.7 V6 and Adjustable Suspension) and a new twin scroll 2.0 liter engine (which most people probably don't know it's new because power is virtually the same). Some would say the switch from MyFord Touch to Sync 3 would be a much welcome reason to upgrade as well.

[akirby]

 

Well its not like the Camcord has had that much changes over the past 20 years or so either..at least in the styling dept.

 

Camcord has consistently done MCEs every 3 or 4 years and new models every 5-7 years. And there are enough changes even in the MCEs to keep buyers happy.

 

They don't change the platform very much but they change the exterior and interior styling which is what people see and touch.

[silvrsvt]

 

They don't change the platform very much but they change the exterior and interior styling which is what people see and touch.

 

Hmmm

 

2012 Camry

https://services.edmunds-media.com/image-service/unversioned-ed/ximm/?quality=85&image=/img/long-term/2012-toyota-camry/2012_toyota_camry_textures-thumb-717x477-112988.jpg

 

2017 Camry

https://services.edmunds-media.com/image-service/media-ed/sharp/?crop=16x9&quality=70&format=jpg:progressive&image=%2Ftoyota%2Fcamry%2F2017%2Ftd%2F2017_toyota_camry_dsh_td_1214161_1600.jpg

 

2013 Fusion

 

2017 Fusion

 

The Camry interior doesn't scream new to me, even though the gap is larger then Fusion between updates

 

The 2018 Camry dash looks horrible in relation to the older one and the Fusion

Edited August 3, 2017 by silvrsvt